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[Bioskop.Inc]

Bioskop.Inc you're telling how to increase the time? Thanks, but the question was about possibilities of intermediate format.

Yep, certainly was only telling you how to increase recording times because I do believe that your other question has already been rejected by the developers of ML.
I think that you wouldn't get anymore footage/longer recording times as a result - the 60D & others just simply can't write to the SD card fast enough (its a hardware thing).
The new RAWMagic app will convert to 12bit, but only after the fact.

Sorry if this doesn't answer your question.
Try doing a forum search on the topic to find out more...

So, OK, people. It can not record more then 3 seconds of full resolution video in RAW mode, but is there is any perspective to create some algorithm for realtime conversion of 14bits RAW into 12 or 10bits RAW, with own Digic processor (like it does with .H264) to increase this time? As far as I know, those 2 or 4 upper bits of data are not so useful in those cameras (noise in the shadows).
Maybe there is some kind of solution to record 12bits or 10bits video through the HDMI output to the video recorder?

Go look at the 2nd post on page 1

The point of my post was to say that we have already tried to get the best out of the 60D, it is limited & we've known it for ages now. This doesn't make the 60D worthless by any means!

ML RAW is excellent & you don't really need continuous recording to make something decent, 13-30 secs is more than adequate (watch some films & count how long it takes before they cut to another shot). With RAW on the 60D, you need to plan your shots carefully & if you do so you can produce something excellent.

I have a 60D - I use it in RAW mode & I still use the good old H264, because sometimes its practical to use RAW & sometimes not. What I really love is that you now have 2 options with your 60D & this makes it really flexible.

So my last comment (perhaps, get a new camera) was a little bit of sarcasm, since it seems that people complain too much about the so-called short comings of what they have in front of them, when in reality they aren't short comings at all. The time limit on the 60D is a blessing, as it'll teach you to be a better shooter/film-maker or whatever you use your camera for.

Go out & shoot something with the lovely 60D - pictures, film or ML RAW!
What more could you ask for...!?

Its funny, this thread is 50 pages long & still people don't get that the 60D isn't a good RAW camera.
Continuous recording is in the realm of seconds, you get a few more if you change the aspect ratio & the most useable resolution size (for upscaling to HD) is 1280x...
For example:
2.67:1 @ 1280x480 = 32 seconds

Your best option is to crank up the H264 Bit Rate hack for close ups & use bursts of RAW for those wider shots that will need detail.
There are plenty of people making v.good films with just H264 - check out this guy on vimeo:
http://vimeo.com/kendyty

If you want RAW & can't afford the 5D3, then check out the page for RAW video capabilities for all cameras & see what else is good:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6215.0

Probably the buffer limit.
Don't really understand why you would be using the RAW module to do this, as its not the best.
Why not do a timelapse the proper way & just use the Intervalometer with your picture setting set to RAW (in canon menu).
However, if you're worried about your shutter then you could use Silent Picture, which creates 14bit DNGs, in conjunction with the Intervalometer.
It'll be the same workflow as the RAW module & get you bigger files that you can do pans etc...

No! Reading? That would be too easy!
Most of the 60D thread is made up of these questions & it is 50 pages long, so people don't bother.
Going to update my second post with that link & a brief explanation.

You've got ML already on your camera/SD card - good.
Now all you need to do is download the nightly build & then copy what you find onto your SD card (you will be replacing old ML stuff, but don't worry).
Put your SD back into your camera & you should now find a Modules section in ML menu.
Turn on/activate what you want from that menu (the RAW_Rec or RAW_MLV modules are there) & then restart your camera.
Go to video section in ML menu & turn on RAW rec.

Just a little note, the 60D is serverely hampered & will not do continuous RAW recording - faster cards will not help, its the card slot.
In the Canon Menu turn the picture quality to S3 (JPEG) only - you'll be able to record for longer.
When recording turn Global Draw off - again helps recording.
I use 1280x... crop modes - they upscale nicely to HD & give adequate recording times.
Also, the wider the aspect ratio setting the longer the recording time.

" Depending on the scene. That was the last setting on the camera. Pointing out towards a Cityscape gettiing 60 to plus 70 mbs."

Now adjusting things a little: 
CBR 2.2 Q Scale -16 ISO 400 getting Plus 90 mbs but below 100 for the scene that I tested.

Thanks, I never knew you could change the Q-Scale whilst in CBR mode - its greyed out so always thought it was to be used with VBR (when it isn't greyed out).
But would still like the TL version which does produce better images because of the GOP functionality etc...
It basically allows you to tweek BR hack just a little better than the basic ML version (find someone with a 600D & test the difference on a detailed scene).

hi guys downloaded the latest ml nightly built
and bought sandisk extreme 16gb 45mbps card too still can't get more the 51 frames recorded on 1720x968p
and 130 frames on 1280x720p
help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
please

Check out the first 2 posts in this thread for all the info you need.
You ain't gonna get more than about 13secs of useable footage in crop mode that will upscale nicely.
The SD card slot in the 60D is limited to 20mbps, so a faster card won't change anything.
The only camera worth using with ML RAW is the 5D3...
You can still shoot some nice things with the 60D, but you really have to plan everything properly since you will never get continuous RAW recording.

@Bioskop.Inc
"Yeah I would love the GOP Slice bit rate hack for the 60D..."

So would I, but have you tried adjusting the bit rate on the 60D as per the Gop Slice specs?
I have and I have gotten pretty high bit rates (plus 100Mbs) and decent h.264 video as a result.
Edit: you can't use sound (on camera) though with the higher Mbs rates.

Do you mean using using VBR (Q-Scale) instead of CBR or just CBR ramped up to 3.0x?

Any chance to get tragic lantern work for the 60D?
Anyone knows anything yet?
Thank you

Yeah I would love that GOP Slice bitrate hack for the 60D...

Please read http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11080.0

The vast majority of TL is simply ML features made to work on certain cameras that didn't already have those features working. The 60D port is already mature and almost all ML features work on it, there's no need for TL. A couple of the unique features of TL have been or are in the process of being back ported to ML.

If there are any particular features of TL not already a part of ML that you are looking for you should report them here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10593.0

This has been a long time coming & was quite frustrating seeing 2 versions of Lantern out there, with no porting from one to the other. I know people that have sold their cameras to get a 600D, so they could take advantage of the better H264 GOP Slice hack that existed within TL.
But with the RAW breakthrough & its emphasis on the 5D3 (for obvious reasons), all other cameras seemed to fall by the wayside. Improving H264 in the lesser models would be great & the results from TL on a 600D are nice, but the all important questions of "is it stable?" & "how does it work?" would need to be addressed.
On a similar line, the current Bitrate hack does seem to work a lot better since the improvements made for/by RAW recording - x2.5 hasn't crashed (stopped recording) on me for a while & x3 only a few times.

Eventhough I have a new camera, I still want to shoot stuff on the 60D in a live situation - DSLR=pictures & video!

Please criticize my workflow : Magic Lantern Raw > Raw2dng > ACR > Tiff > ProRes4444 > Final Cut Pro 7 > Davinci > Export to Final Cut Pro : XML > Music / Title in Final Cut Pro > Master in ProRes4444.

This is too bad because my iMac is 5 years old and I think that Davinci Resolve can't be able to use DNG, CinemaDNG create by RAWMagic, even the Tiff 16 bits doesn't work in it. With my iMac I just can grade footage in prores 4444.
This is slow down my workflow a lot.

So if someone have a solution or a better workflow, I'll take it 
Modify message

I have an old mac which won't run Resolve & my work around was this:
MLRaw>RAWMagic>RPP>TIFF>QT7 to create a ProRes 422HQ .Mov>FCP

or You could try your workflow not converting to ProRes4444, but PR422HQ.

RPP is a free RAW cc program, it has some film stock presets, can turn your CDNGs to LOG, will get rid of bad pixels & Batch process etc..
So you can give your files a basic grade in RPP (or just get the exposure right etc...) & then tweek it with Color in FCP7.
This way it puts less strain on my old mac.

& finally try manually ETTR when filming to get cleaner footage.

I am trying it different resolution, thank you guys.
I have one question, I am using RAWMAGIC to convert my raw files to cinema dng, but I am getting lots of coloured spots.
Any idea why this is happening?
I am try to work with resolve da vinci, I have never encountered this before, when I was using camera raw through AE.
Please help !

60D suffers from Bad Pixels & RawMagic doesn't get rid of them (there was a build in the first post that got rid of them in-camera) - AE probably got rid of them for you & i don't think Resolve will do this.

Also, with a x1.5 anamorphic i found 5:3 1280x768 @ 23.976fps gave me 16secs & once unsqueezed (1920x768) upscaled very nicely to give you an aspect ratio of 2.39:1 (1920x803) (with some of the sides slightly cropped).

Finally finished this Music Video - a real pain in the ass due to hard drive space, but worth it.

I've just finished my last 2 projects that i'll be doing with my 60D - one was using H264 & the other RAW.
Personally, i've moved on from DSLRs for video - H264 doesn't cut it anymore & ML RAW workflow, which includes HD space, is not worth the hassle.

Should you upgrade to a 5D3?
It all depends on what you want to do.
If its just video, then there are other cameras out there that have better standard codecs & do RAW properly, with sound, for less money (& you could keep your 60D for photos).

Its a tough choice, but you need to weigh up all the options - there are quite a few cameras out there & new ones coming out all the time.

Dang, 1728x736 would be perfect to record in. I wonder if there is some sort of hardware hack I could wire up to get it to send video quicker than the SD slot... Or are we hardware limited by the camera itself? Or just the SD card? I just got a 60D so I am still pretty new to all this.

The 60D is hardware limited & nothing is going to change this.
However, if you lower the crop factor you will get longer recording times & some settings do upscale very nicely (better than H264 in video mode).
The only set back is that to get continuous RAW recording on the 60D, you have to use a low crop factor that doesn't really upscale any better than the internal H264 video mode.
So you either use short bursts of Raw (which is workable) or use Raw for those detailed shots that video mode can't handle.

so if the correct exposure is say 600iso you dont push it more than 800?
well what if you need an iso of 1600 for a correct exposure then ettr would be something like 2000 iso?

The 60D isn't great at low light, so its going to be limited in what you can shoot - RAW isn't really going to get you a better picture simply because the camera's sensor just isn't that great.
You really need to test out what is good for you, but at higher ISOs you might need to use something like NeatVideo to de-noise, but this will be easier to do & yeild better results because you are using RAW.

Remeber to use the RAW Zebras (i put them to 95%) & i tend to ETTR with a value of E -0.4, so its not too much over normal exposure but just enough to be able to pull it back.

Experiment & test

yeah I looked at that. I understand the ettr kinda but if I turn up the iso and expose to the right wont it just make it grainier?

With ETTR you've got to unlearn everything you've had to accept using a DSLR, just because you're shooting in RAW.
Here's some useful reading, the first link is the easiest to understand:

http://schewephoto.com/ETTR/
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml


It will only be grainier if you really push the ISO beyond the camera's limits - so i don't go much higher than 800 (stick to multiples of 100 for RAW - forget the the multiples of 160).
Also, in good light you choose ISO as normal, try to ETTR as much as possible, but you don't need to go overboard.
Its really important to use ETTR & a higher ISO in darker situations in order to limit/reduce the noise.
An ND filter is invaluable for ETTR.

Anyways, experiment till you get it right/understand - practice makes perfect....

Does anyone experience a lot of noise when filming RAW? I find that its always way noisier than the h264.

Go back 2 pages - I wrote a post explaining how ETTR will cut down your noise levels, there's even a video!
I also covered other basic things you should be doing when using RAW with your 60D.
(Think i'll paste it onto the first page)

NB. People have stopped replying to questions simply because they have been answered a thousand times.

Learn to use the search function or just read through the topic - there's actually loads of useful info.

This is probably a stupid question, but... surely if picture quality is set to S2, you won't have the same ability to manipulate the video as with SRAW?

Not entirely a stupid question, but I meant change this setting when in Video Mode!
For some reason selecting S2 (jpeg) gives you longer recording times compared to when in SRAW - It has absolutely no effect on the Raw Video you are filming.

Obviously if you're taking photos, then any of the RAW options are the ones to go for (i like a combination of RAW & JPEG).

For workflow I have a question. I have been getting mixed results when I bring my raws over. The raw2dng frontend GUI for Mac. Using this I can create the DNG images and it renders a Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) for me as well using ffmpeg. The proxy, however, shows hot pixels. When I bring the DNG files it creates into After Effects there are none but instead I get more noise and a different exposure. (no settings changed during import) What am I doing wrong?

Try using the Dropbox linked build I posted & this will get rid of the Hot Pixels.
If using a Mac then try RAWmagic, which is available free on the Appstore & see if that makes a difference - it works really well.

[NOISE & ETTR:]

NOISE & ETTR:
Ok, so the noise issue is because you aren't following the ETTR rule - more light=better detail & less noise.
Here's a video i made to demonstrate exactly why you should be following ETTR:

Use the Raw Zebras & a good reading should be about -0.4ev (you're nearly or just a bit overexposing).
I tend to use a higher ISO (400/800) & an ND filter, but if you make sure that you're exposing [enough] to the right (ETTR) & have good light then most ISOs should be fine.
Just remember that this is RAW & you'll have to do post work - you can recover everything!

BAD PIXELS:
Here's a link to Marrek's build that gets rid of the bad pixels (you need to turn on LV_AF_Raw in the Raw Video menu).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jiq5wuzwp6igyi/ml60d_01_09_2013.zip

Here's a link to an earlier version (can't remember which one works best - think the one above has Dual ISO as well & some other stuff):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-HdscXfsKpgbTJiT18tcS1ldjA/edit?usp=sharing&pli=1

It works & is the only workaround for the 60D ATM.

Don't be afraid to use the lesser crop modes - I find 1280x... upscales really nicely & you get longer recording times!
Also, remember to change the Picture Quality in the Canon Menu from SRAW to S2 (jpeg) - you'll get longer recording times.
Turn Global Draw off when recording.

And finally, if you want really high res bursts (i.e. higher than 1728x...) you can achieve this by doing the following:
Press x5 zoom button (remember to turn off Global raw first & set Frames Per Second Override!)
Press ML Menu button
Goto Raw Video Menu & you'll notice that you can go further on the Resolution scale (max 2512x...., but i use 2240x.... to be safe).
Exit ML Menu
DO NOT EXIT x5 zoom mode
Press record & you should be able to get about 73frames.

Its not perfect, but once you find a higher resolution that works well it can add to your videos.

Good Luck! 

Recap

When i use RAWmagic i get nothing but these results
(http://cl.ly/16163J323Q3t) <---- Results

When i use RAW2DNG i get some RARE clean results but mostly deadpixels over the screen, some even in the same spots.
(http://cl.ly/image/1k0b1Y3d3E3M) <--- Results

MY phots and movies are fine, i only get deadpixels when using RAW.

Either my 20mb/s card is just to slow for almost any raw. OR my laptop is to slow.
Mac mid 2012 laptop in case you need to know.

Any help?

Cheers- Exomonkeyman

What are you using to process your Raw files once you've unwrapped them?
My RAWmagic files are also blue when i open them with Preview (on mac), but if i open them with a proper RAW editing program they come out fine.

The hot/dead pixel thing happens to every 60D owner & you can get rid of them when you use a proper program like Photoshop's Raw converter or a free one like RPP & RawTherapee.
Mareekk also made a build with LV_AF_RAW on it, which you need to turn on in the Raw sub-menu - download from here:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-HdscXfsKpgbTJiT18tcS1ldjA/edit?usp=sharing

so how do you get rid of the dead pixel looking things...and the frame skipping?

i have a lot of bad pixels.... they are always the same, but they dont appear always... is there a solution?

Use this build by Marekk & in the RAW sub-menu turn on LV_AF_RAW - it does get rid of them, but is not ideal.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-HdscXfsKpgbTJiT18tcS1ldjA/edit?usp=sharing

However, you can get rid of them if you use Photoshop's raw converter & there are other Free programs out there like RPP or RAWTherapee that can do this too.

I asked if there was such a thing for Windows/PC and wasn't even acknowledged. I was just wondering if I was the only Windows user in a land of Mac.

It does help if you try & look through the forum, but I think you should be looking here:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5557.0

ok can someone do a tutorial on how to put the right firmware on the 60d? please? Im pretty positive I have the wrong firmeware on it and I dont understand how I can even shoot a few seconds of raw video.

Right, you basically install the unified ML build v2.3.
Then you can download the latest Nightly Build or go through this thread to find a custom build by Marekk (there's one with LV_AF_RAW which will cut out the hot pixels).
You replace the AUTOEXEC.BIN in the root of the card & then the ML folder (if the RAW version only has a MODULE folder then put this in the ML folder).
Once you put the SD card back into the camera, go into ML & go to the MODULES section & Load the modules.
In video mode change the Pic Quality (in Canon Menu) to S2.
Go to MOVIE menu in ML & turn on RAW VIDEO - go into the sub-menu & choose a resolution (max starts with 1728x?)
When recording, turn off GLOBAL DRAW.