60D RAW video - it's working !!!

Started by marekk, May 24, 2013, 09:27:26 PM

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dmilligan



iRedM

Okay people; I think I have found a way to record raw continuously on a 60D although it comes at a cost of a lot of dropped frames and I am yet to convert it and see what the results are. Since I'm in a hurry right now to work (on a Sunday  :'(), here are my settings under the Nightly Builds Modified tab:

(Using Canon 60D; 64GB SDXC at 30MB/s card)

Global Draw: OFF; Bit Rate: CBR; BuffWarnLevel: 80%; FPS Overide: 25; Desired FPS: 25 (From 25); Optimize for: Exact FPS; RAW video (MLV): ON, 1280x720; Resolution: 1280x720; Create directory: ON; Frame skipping: Allow; Files > 4GiB (exFAT): ON; Card warm-up: 32MB; RAW video: ON, 1280x720; Resolution: 1280x720.

It recorded until I decided to stop it round about 2 minutes still counting, but like I said it was dropping quite a huge number of frames.
Film, Music, Faith, Life, Design and Gaming; I do.

Audionut

Then it wasn't recording continuously.

By those standards, I can record 3584x1320 on the 5D3, continuously!

Stedda

Holy crap that's funny... no need to wait and see what the results are. With it dropping a huge amount of frames, that "continuous" recording is trash.

Just a few dropped frames is easy to spot. When people here speak of continuous they mean until the card fills with no dropped frames.
5D Mark III -- 7D   SOLD -- EOS M 22mm 18-55mm STM -- Fuji X-T1 18-55 F2.8-F4 & 35 F1.4
Canon Glass   100L F2.8 IS -- 70-200L F4 -- 135L F2 -- 85 F1.8 -- 17-40L --  40 F2.8 -- 35 F2 IS  Sigma Glass  120-300 F2.8 OS -- 50 F1.4 -- 85 F1.4  Tamron Glass   24-70 2.8 VC   600EX-RT X3

iRedM

Like I said, I'll test it and if it's better than H.264; well that's good enough for me.
Film, Music, Faith, Life, Design and Gaming; I do.

dmilligan

It will look like trash.

The camera is limited to around 20MB/s write speed, so assuming that you were actually recording at that speed, we can figure out what fps you're actually recording at on average:
(20 MB/s * 2^20) / (1280 * 720 * 14/8) = 13 fps => almost half your frames will be missing (except at the beginning where there's still buffer space available) and it wont just be a nice every other frame, it will be maybe a burst of 3 or 4 frames in a row and then probably skipping 3 or 4 frames in a row. So you're footage is going to be about half the length it's supposed to be (sped up by a factor of almost 2) and jerky as hell.

If you really want 720p continuous, you'd be much better off recording at 12fps and "twixtoring" it up to 24. It probably wouldn't look very good though.

Bioskop.Inc

Its funny, this thread is 50 pages long & still people don't get that the 60D isn't a good RAW camera.
Continuous recording is in the realm of seconds, you get a few more if you change the aspect ratio & the most useable resolution size (for upscaling to HD) is 1280x...
For example:
2.67:1 @ 1280x480 = 32 seconds

Your best option is to crank up the H264 Bit Rate hack for close ups & use bursts of RAW for those wider shots that will need detail.
There are plenty of people making v.good films with just H264 - check out this guy on vimeo:
http://vimeo.com/kendyty

If you want RAW & can't afford the 5D3, then check out the page for RAW video capabilities for all cameras & see what else is good:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6215.0

comurit

Quote from: Bioskop.Inc on May 19, 2014, 12:10:15 PM
Its funny, this thread is 50 pages long & still people don't get that the 60D isn't a good RAW camera.
Continuous recording is in the realm of seconds, you get a few more if you change the aspect ratio & the most useable resolution size (for upscaling to HD) is 1280x...
For example:
2.67:1 @ 1280x480 = 32 seconds

Your best option is to crank up the H264 Bit Rate hack for close ups & use bursts of RAW for those wider shots that will need detail.
There are plenty of people making v.good films with just H264 - check out this guy on vimeo:
http://vimeo.com/kendyty

If you want RAW & can't afford the 5D3, then check out the page for RAW video capabilities for all cameras & see what else is good:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6215.0

I totally agree!!!!
eventually!!!!

Subtlesip

Quote from: Bioskop.Inc on May 19, 2014, 12:10:15 PM
Its funny, this thread is 50 pages long & still people don't get that the 60D isn't a good RAW camera.
Continuous recording is in the realm of seconds, you get a few more if you change the aspect ratio & the most useable resolution size (for upscaling to HD) is 1280x...
For example:
2.67:1 @ 1280x480 = 32 seconds

Your best option is to crank up the H264 Bit Rate hack for close ups & use bursts of RAW for those wider shots that will need detail.
There are plenty of people making v.good films with just H264 - check out this guy on vimeo:
http://vimeo.com/kendyty

If you want RAW & can't afford the 5D3, then check out the page for RAW video capabilities for all cameras & see what else is good:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6215.0


Isn't the point of being able to take RAW footage on the 60D, to take RAW footage on the 60D...? I think most of us here understand it is not the best for recording RAW, especially if you want to be able to record continuously, or shoot at full resolution- but great videos are made without continuous recording on a daily basis. The fact of the matter is that ML affords us 60D users with capabilities that would otherwise not exist.

Audionut

And while the post has some merit, for users looking to purchase a new camera, it has no respect for those people, who already own an 60D.

Besides, high resolution isn't the only useful aspect of raw recording.

Bioskop.Inc

The point of my post was to say that we have already tried to get the best out of the 60D, it is limited & we've known it for ages now. This doesn't make the 60D worthless by any means!

ML RAW is excellent & you don't really need continuous recording to make something decent, 13-30 secs is more than adequate (watch some films & count how long it takes before they cut to another shot). With RAW on the 60D, you need to plan your shots carefully & if you do so you can produce something excellent.

I have a 60D - I use it in RAW mode & I still use the good old H264, because sometimes its practical to use RAW & sometimes not. What I really love is that you now have 2 options with your 60D & this makes it really flexible.

So my last comment (perhaps, get a new camera) was a little bit of sarcasm, since it seems that people complain too much about the so-called short comings of what they have in front of them, when in reality they aren't short comings at all. The time limit on the 60D is a blessing, as it'll teach you to be a better shooter/film-maker or whatever you use your camera for.

Go out & shoot something with the lovely 60D - pictures, film or ML RAW!
What more could you ask for...!?

iRedM

Quote from: iRedM on May 18, 2014, 09:46:04 AM
Okay people; I think I have found a way to record raw continuously on a 60D although it comes at a cost of a lot of dropped frames and I am yet to convert it and see what the results are. Since I'm in a hurry right now to work (on a Sunday  :'(), here are my settings under the Nightly Builds Modified tab:

(Using Canon 60D; 64GB SDXC at 30MB/s card)

Global Draw: OFF; Bit Rate: CBR; BuffWarnLevel: 80%; FPS Overide: 25; Desired FPS: 25 (From 25); Optimize for: Exact FPS; RAW video (MLV): ON, 1280x720; Resolution: 1280x720; Create directory: ON; Frame skipping: Allow; Files > 4GiB (exFAT): ON; Card warm-up: 32MB; RAW video: ON, 1280x720; Resolution: 1280x720.

It recorded until I decided to stop it round about 2 minutes still counting, but like I said it was dropping quite a huge number of frames.

I'm back! well considering that I'm very busy lately the best I can do for now is show you a picture of the outcome of my 60D continuous recording ungraded straight from MLViewer at 1280x720 which aint bad considering that it was a handheld shooting on my bed. This calls for more tests on my side. Can someone tell me how to insert an image here straight from my desktop?
Film, Music, Faith, Life, Design and Gaming; I do.

dmilligan

Quote from: iRedM on May 22, 2014, 07:34:45 AM
Can someone tell me how to insert an image here straight from my desktop?
You can't. You must upload it somewhere (imgur, flickr, etc.) and put the link in an img tag (the link must be to an actual image file, not a webpage that contains the file, i.e. your link should end in .jpg not .html).

larrycafe

Quote from: iRedM on May 22, 2014, 07:34:45 AM
I'm back! well considering that I'm very busy lately the best I can do for now is show you a picture of the outcome of my 60D continuous recording ungraded straight from MLViewer at 1280x720 which aint bad considering that it was a handheld shooting on my bed. This calls for more tests on my side. Can someone tell me how to insert an image here straight from my desktop?

no, you don't have to post an image here, we know you are very busy, don't bother putting image here.

Just let us know if the "continuous" shooting is better than H.264 in your eyes, can't wait to see your usage report

vipspeed

i installed the nightly. but i cant fine the raw menu in the video section!!!

ViXP

So, OK, people. It can not record more then 3 seconds of full resolution video in RAW mode, but is there is any perspective to create some algorithm for realtime conversion of 14bits RAW into 12 or 10bits RAW, with own Digic processor (like it does with .H264) to increase this time? As far as I know, those 2 or 4 upper bits of data are not so useful in those cameras (noise in the shadows).
Maybe there is some kind of solution to record 12bits or 10bits video through the HDMI output to the video recorder?

Bioskop.Inc

Quote from: ViXP on May 23, 2014, 07:28:30 PM
So, OK, people. It can not record more then 3 seconds of full resolution video in RAW mode, but is there is any perspective to create some algorithm for realtime conversion of 14bits RAW into 12 or 10bits RAW, with own Digic processor (like it does with .H264) to increase this time? As far as I know, those 2 or 4 upper bits of data are not so useful in those cameras (noise in the shadows).
Maybe there is some kind of solution to record 12bits or 10bits video through the HDMI output to the video recorder?

Go look at the 2nd post on page 1

ViXP

Bioskop.Inc you're telling how to increase the time? Thanks, but the question was about possibilities of intermediate format.

Bioskop.Inc

Quote from: ViXP on May 24, 2014, 02:23:35 AM
Bioskop.Inc you're telling how to increase the time? Thanks, but the question was about possibilities of intermediate format.

Yep, certainly was only telling you how to increase recording times because I do believe that your other question has already been rejected by the developers of ML.
I think that you wouldn't get anymore footage/longer recording times as a result - the 60D & others just simply can't write to the SD card fast enough (its a hardware thing).
The new RAWMagic app will convert to 12bit, but only after the fact.

Sorry if this doesn't answer your question.
Try doing a forum search on the topic to find out more...

60DUser

Hello!

I'm trying to put the nightly build on my Canon 60D - do you put the "autoexec.bin" and ML folder into the root with the original ML files?

I tried deleting the old files and putting just the Nightly build files on the root of the card but it won't let me "update firmware" - it says "Memory card containing firmware is required for update.

How do I put the nightly build on the SD Card?

Thank you!

keikun007

Kind of off topic, but how do I shoot regular h264 videos with better quality, better dynamic range and bit rate?

dmilligan

Quote from: 60DUser on May 25, 2014, 05:10:08 PM
Hello!

I'm trying to put the nightly build on my Canon 60D - do you put the "autoexec.bin" and ML folder into the root with the original ML files?

I tried deleting the old files and putting just the Nightly build files on the root of the card but it won't let me "update firmware" - it says "Memory card containing firmware is required for update.

How do I put the nightly build on the SD Card?

You don't have to run the update again. Just replace the files and your done. Press the trash button after startup, did ML come up? Look for the version in the ML help menu.

Defkaunta

Hey guys, just tested the Nightly Build for the 60D with RAW Support for the 1st time and I am amazed! So congrats to the dude(s) who made it happen and for putting so much time and work into it! You are brilliant! Never thought I could be amazed by my little camera again :). Feels so good!

However, there are some things which bug me though (must have already been said 1000x before i guess):

Its kind of a bummer (or a challenge? hmmm) to only get about 5 secs of recording time with 1728x724 (Using a 20mb/s card, that is the max write speed of the camera anyways, right?).

Any chances that at some point the developers of ML might dig even deeper into the mainframe of the camera's functions to maybe add functions like 10 or 12 Bit RAW instead of 14 Bit RAW unless it is deeply baked into the sensors configuration? (less writing speeds, more continuos shooting and maybe even true 1080p?)

Also is there a way to play the .RAW file back on your camera? kind of stupid when you can only check on your pc afterwards but hey I really do not want to complain here, it is kind of like shooting on celluloid again :D so that adds a certain discipline when shooting :).

Any theories on improving the writing speed of the camera or bypassing it? (by adding additional software and gear maybe?)

Again, thank you developers :). Woooow!


Walter Schulz

Use search function. All of your questions have been answered. And answered.