Author Topic: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video 30/24fps on 5D3 & others--  (Read 192458 times)

Levinson

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 77
Re: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2013, 10:14:10 AM »
Just a quick note - I'm successfully using the x10 for full frame rate monitoring with focus peaking, and spot metering at 1600 x 900. Understandably I'm not seeing the full recorded area doing this, but at least the overlays work - May 22nd build using Sandisk 32gig Extreme 60MB/s CF

I've found the order of setting things does not matter provided one goes into x5 or x10 before hitting record.

In order to set the focus box to the correct location, what I have been doing is the following - -> before going into x5 or x10, push the joystick 18 times to the right, and 8 times down. Question - does this result in using an area closer to the lens centre than using the top left corner option mentioned in the original post? The box positioning is somewhat unpredictable.

Cheers everyone and thank you for the awesome firmware and developments!  :)
5d3, 5d2 & 550d

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2013, 03:30:26 PM »
If you choose the bottom right corner you also get a zoom of that area.  If you compare the top-left with bottom-left corners with respect to the center of the lens you will find that both are offset by the same amount to the left.  So the answer is no, it is not closer to the center.
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2013, 01:50:24 AM »
Couple of questions.
First, if the "5x" crop is really a 3x zoom, aka 1:1 ratio, what is the 10x zoom now?

Secondly, I'm using the latest compiled build from Lorenco (may 27).  I can record just fine in 5x and 10x zoom mode @ 1920x1080 24 fps, but both the 5x and 10x are "way off".  The old trick of "14 to the left, 7 up" in 5x mode isn't working.  I have no idea how far 10x is off, and since you cannot record in either zoom mode unless you're recording raw, can anyone help me figure out how to get this centered now?

I'd appreciate it, thanks!
Shawn

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2013, 03:15:15 AM »
I tested with 5D3 with the latest build and it has not changed. 

1. Press the joystick to center the focusing box
2. Press the joystick 17 times to the left and 8 to the top to center the focusing box on the new cropped frame.  (Hopefully Snappoint setting can be updated to center the focusing box.  for now it sets it a bit to the right.

Or quicker yet if you set up the focus box:

2. Press trash button and go to Prefs Tab.
3.Scroll to Focus box settings, press Q button, and enable Snap points choosing the Center/TL/TR/BR/BL setting.  Press Set button and Q button.

Now every time you press the joystick in the center the focus box jumps to the correct cropped settings.  I tested ALL four positions and it works, including the top left side.
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2013, 10:10:23 AM »
Renato, I'm on 05/27's build, and it seems to be 17 to the left and about 3 up for the 5x zoom.  Dunno, but that build's default crop marks are way off for me.

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2013, 04:46:27 AM »
Merge from another thread - Audionut

Looks like in the very latest builds the 1:1 crop mode doesn't need any crop mark movement to be centered.  However in 5x zoom (1:1) mode with global draw on it's the normal B%W slideshow look - my dream is to have 1:1 and focus peaking working that I can monitor while recording.  Is there a setting that I have off somewhere?

Audionut

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3454
  • Blunt and to the point
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #56 on: May 30, 2013, 05:01:36 AM »
Overlays don't work in zoom mode.

I'll have to update and check the zoom centering.  I'd love to be able to get a crop of the center of the lens.

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #57 on: May 30, 2013, 05:04:10 AM »
Overlays don't work in zoom mode.

I'll have to update and check the zoom centering.  I'd love to be able to get a crop of the center of the lens.

I swear this worked before though.  I could be wrong.

Audionut

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3454
  • Blunt and to the point
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #58 on: May 30, 2013, 05:13:18 AM »
Looks like in the very latest builds the 1:1 crop mode doesn't need any crop mark movement to be centered.

Can you elaborate a little more on this.

I just tried some footage with the zoom in the center of the frame, and the resulting video was from further left of frame.

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2013, 05:19:45 AM »
Can you elaborate a little more on this.

I just tried some footage with the zoom in the center of the frame, and the resulting video was from further left of frame.

Which build you on?  I'm running Magic Lantern May 28th(8ba641e).

Audionut

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3454
  • Blunt and to the point
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #60 on: May 30, 2013, 05:22:12 AM »
I tried on 8ba641e and 5419e04.  Both had the same result.
Using FPS override and shutter timing.

edit:  You use global draw correct?  That does change the framing and on first appearance does appear to look like what I was capturing.

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #61 on: May 30, 2013, 05:49:15 AM »
I tried on 8ba641e and 5419e04.  Both had the same result.
Using FPS override and shutter timing.

edit:  You use global draw correct?  That does change the framing and on first appearance does appear to look like what I was capturing.

Well for me I'm using the default settings + 24 override.  If I hit the 5x zoom first it appears to be centered just fine.  Hitting it again (10x) and then starting recording the image is to the right of what I see in the screen.

Keep in mind I'm only doing things close up with a 24-70mm lens - I'll try some stuff far away now.  But my cat's face was perfectly in the middle @ 5x ...:)

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #62 on: May 30, 2013, 05:50:45 AM »
Oh yes, always use global draw.  I like the waveform/zebras/histogram/peaking.

But...I might stop using peaking since now I can use a color profile and crank up the sharpness.  No more flat crap with 0 contrast and 0 sharpness.  Who cares; it's raw! ;)

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #63 on: May 30, 2013, 05:59:26 AM »
Well audionut you're right - now at 5x the image is shifted too far too the right.

I tried 17 to the left and up 3 and it seems fine.  You?

Audionut

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3454
  • Blunt and to the point
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #64 on: May 30, 2013, 06:10:37 AM »
Let's figure out together how far this needs to be.

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5441.0
Quote
If you want a more precise setting of the focusing box:

1. Press the joystick to center the focusing box
2. Press the joystick 17 times to the left and 8 to the top to center the focusing box on the new cropped frame.  (Hopefully Snappoint setting can be updated to center the focusing box.  for now it sets it a bit to the right.

For me, I like that the framing is closer to the center of the lens with global draw on.  But I like the cleaner display and easier focusing when global draw is off.

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #65 on: May 30, 2013, 06:16:57 AM »
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5441.0
For me, I like that the framing is closer to the center of the lens with global draw on.  But I like the cleaner display and easier focusing when global draw is off.

That's old info.  8 up is way too many.  I think 17 to the left and up 3 look great.

Audionut

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3454
  • Blunt and to the point
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #66 on: May 30, 2013, 06:25:42 AM »
That's old info.  8 up is way too many.  I think 17 to the left and up 3 look great.

I haven't checked myself yet.  I've got to many other things going on atm sorry.

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2013, 07:41:51 PM »
I think 17 to the left and up 3 look great.

I tested both configurations and they are both approximately OK.  It appears that sampling on the sensor has some lattitude so it can go as far as 3 up.  So from 3 up to 8 up the cropping follows the focusing box so it is about the same.

Going 3 up has the advantage that you are 4 clicks closer to the horizontal centerline of the lens.

For a much faster setup I use the presets of  the focusing box using:

2. Press trash button and go to Prefs Tab.
3.Scroll to Focus box settings, press Q button, and enable Snap points choosing the Center/TL/TR/BR/BL setting.  Press Set button and Q button.

IDEALLY: At some point, if the DEVs cannot get the sampling of the center of the sensor, then it would be possible to optimize one of those Focus box settings to exactly match the framing.
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Re: Newest compiled builds for RAW recording
« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2013, 09:44:11 PM »
I tested both configurations and they are both approximately OK.  It appears that sampling on the sensor has some lattitude so it can go as far as 3 up.  So from 3 up to 8 up the cropping follows the focusing box so it is about the same.

Going 3 up has the advantage that you are 4 clicks closer to the horizontal centerline of the lens.

For a much faster setup I use the presets of  the focusing box using:

2. Press trash button and go to Prefs Tab.
3.Scroll to Focus box settings, press Q button, and enable Snap points choosing the Center/TL/TR/BR/BL setting.  Press Set button and Q button.

IDEALLY: At some point, if the DEVs cannot get the sampling of the center of the sensor, then it would be possible to optimize one of those Focus box settings to exactly match the framing.

Here's the problem though - I would love to use the Center/TL/TR/BR/BL option - what I did was set it to 5x mode with the 16 to the left / 3 up mode and centered my target.  Then went into the menu and enabled your snap point settings - NONE of them was even close; the TL was far too "up" and "left", the bottom and the rest still not right.  Are you saying one of these snap points should be dead on?

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2013, 09:59:37 PM »
The location of focusing box in /TL/TR/BR/BL settings is approximately right.  I use them as defaults for quick set up.  If you record with any of those four points the target will be almost center because, as I said above, the sensor scanning is moving near that area. 

I found that your setting of 17 and 3 is not exact either so the other may be ok.  Just enable the setting, aim with the focus box in all four positions and review the video.  It will be ok.

Now maybe our DEVs will reprogram one of those settings to match exactly with the recorded image, and call it 5X rec or something like that.  It would be even better if they found out how to record from the center of the sensor.
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2013, 02:05:20 AM »
After further tests I'm thinking 16 to the left and 3 up is better.

My whole logic was get something far enough away that it fills the frame at about the max distance I would use this at (in my case, the 24-70mm @ 70mm (210 mm real world).  Based on that, 16 to the left and 3 up and it was dead center or very close and the recording proved it.
Using the TL crop mark, it was way off - I mean the entire object (a can of compressed air) wasn't even in the frame at all.

It's crucial for me at the 3x crop will mostly be for close-up shots of faces that fill the frame.  I, like you, sure wish it was dead center for 2 reasons - first, it's the sweet spot of the lens, but just as importantly, when you do a slow "zoom out" it would appear to fade cleanly out from the center - not fade out from one direction.

What lens and what distance are you testing this with?  Thanks for all your help - ML raw is about ready for a true alpha ver 1 IMO.

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2013, 02:43:03 AM »
I tested again too just to be sure.

My best framing with canon 50mm f/1.8 is 18 left 3 up!  My previous test now show to be inaccurate.  Will have to test with another lens to see if it is different.
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

a1ex

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10712
  • 5D Mark Free
Re: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2013, 10:24:24 AM »
I recommend trying the "Force Left" option and moving the zoom box only 2 steps to the right. This is as close to the center as I could get, and should also improve write speeds.

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2013, 10:03:47 PM »
A1lex has provided us with this special option for those who are intersted in cropped video.  It is now baptized as Frame to the Left:

Why would you be interested in this:

a. To frame your videos as close as possible to the center of the sensor.
b. To get extra writing speed in doing so.

Here is how to do it 5D3 compile de0bcff

1. Put your cam in video mode.
2. In Life View make sure your focusing box is centered by clicking in the joystick until the box is in the center.  (Just in case you have moved it)
3. Center the subject and press 5X zoom
3. Press trash button and enter ML menu.
4. In Overlay tab set Global Draw to On, all modes.
5. In Movie tab enable RAW video, set your resolution, and scroll to Framing, select Force Left
6. Press Q and set your FPS Override if desired.
7. Press half shutter to go back to LV
8. Click the joystick two times to the left and center your subject.
9. Press record button

Note LV will only show in gray and not very smooth.  This is correct but now note that the focusing box is showing you the center of the actual video that will be recorded.

The following pictures show the results of this setup.  The purple shaded image is the frame and the total image represents the entire image from a photo of the setup.  Not all resolutions have been shown.

Note the X represents the center of the frame and it is very close to where the framing, via Global Draw, shows up on the LV screen.

Here is the 640x368 framing:


At 1280x720 it is almost centered:


Here is 1920x1088 is a bit to the right:


And the largest frame possible


http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2013, 10:21:45 PM »
Another option is to set the Framing to center.

In this case and with Global Draw ON, the LV will also show you the correct framing for the video but the crop will be from a different area of the sensor.

Note that if you want 5X to be in color you will have to turn Global Draw OFF and then use the 17 to the left and 3 up trick to get the focusing box to properly frame the video.

Here is an image representing this framing at 1920x1088.

http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X