Canon 70D

[David_Hugh]

Hello 70D users!
Let my start by saying I'm new to the forum and have mighty respect for everything that's happening here - ML has greatly improved the lives of professionals and enthusiasts alike in my opinion .

I hope this is the right thread to be posting this question in - I have a question with regard to the 70D autofocus.

Since the Dual Pixel AF ist really the distinguishing feature of the 70D, I wonder how well it works in Raw recording modes. I found some examples on youtube, like this

or

where the tracking AF is obviously active, but I haven't found anything on the "touch-to-rack-focus" AF.
In other words, I was hoping some of the 70D users here on the forum could chime in and tell me if (and how well, eg speed, reliability) the touch screen works with say 10bit raw recording. Would be greatly appreciated since I feel it is such an important part of the 70Ds appeal which no other cam can do right now! I was hoping to shed some light onto this topic in order to provide a little bit of a help for potential future 70D users (like myself) with regard to buying decisions!

Thanks in advance,
David

[weke88]

Hey,

I'm really new to magic lantern and filming in generell - so I have a simple question: How is 2k possible on the canon 70D. I asked an professional cameraman about magic lantern an shooting 2k with the 70D and he responded that it wouldnt be "real" 2k, but just extrapolated 2k, because the chip in the 70D doesnt change and it can't fully process 2k. (sorry for the stupid question) So what is right: can ML do "real" 2k or not? And what does it mean to do 2k on a chip that isn't made for it?

Thanks!

[David_Hugh]

Hello again!
So I bit the bullet and got me a 70D .
I havent had it for long enough to conduct a thorough investigation but maybe what I found so far is helpful for others:

With regard to my own questions - yes, all types of AF work with raw recording, also with 10bit (at least as far as I've tested it.) However, there is one major drawback - perhaps this is very obvious but maybe it helps clarify some stuff for other newbies;) - you cant see the canon overlays, so while tracking and racking focus works, you dont see the actual white box on the screen. I think the AF is still useable though in tracking mode when your subject doesnt move super fast, like in a regular tracking shot. I will report back once I've tried it but the possibility to have continuous focus when being on a glidecam is really the scenario where I could see this being a real benefti (because wireless follow focus units are pretty darn expensive).

I'd also be happy to test the new lossless compression built once it's ready!

Cheers,
David

[toxotis70]

what is the maximum resolution in RAw for video for 70D ?

[ShootMeAlready]

Here are some key advantages of the 70D with ML that spring to mind.  How great they are depends how you like to shoot video.

Key video advantages in the 70D with ML include
- zebras for highlights &   other curves/waves etc.
- Magic zoom PIP zoom on LCD, and or focus peaks for MF/AF focusing
- rgb parade with warnings
Cinemascope (1:2.35 aspect) Video Resolutions and Durations with full AF options.
- 10 bit raw, 1600x680 @30fps.  Max resolution continuous for 30fps.
- 10 bit raw, 1824x774 @30 fps, 709 frames about 23.6s.
- 10 bit raw, 1824x774 @24 fps.  Max resolution continuous 24fps.
Cinemascope / Near FHD to 2.5k.  These are Zoomed with MF, the Zoomed AF only does centre point Single Zone
- 10 bit raw, 3X, 1856x790 @24fps. Max resolution continuous, 24fps, also note 3X has no alias/moire.
- 10 bit raw, 5X, 1920x818 @30fps, was 494 frames about 16.4s. 
- 10 bit raw, 5X, 2240x954 @30fps, was 197 frames about 8s.
- 10 bit raw, 5X, 2550x1072 @30fps, was 124 frames about 4s.
Cinemascope /Slo-Mo  (Note some camcorders have only 4s buffers for slo-mo)   
- 10 bit raw, 1824x466 @60fps, was 759 frames, about 12.6s.  Note vertical has to be stretched, but all AF options. 
- 10 bit raw, 5X, 1920x804 @60fps, was 525 frames about 8.75s.  5X zoom uses MF.   
Highest Bit Depth Cinemascope
- 14 bit raw continuous video for 720p @24 fps, full AF options. H264 720p for high ISO slo-mo.
** 80D greater sensor DR for H264 video, yet 70D raw video has highlight/lowlight recovery over its DR, more bits used the harder you can push it in post. Yet raw video supports lower ISO 400 max, because of hot pixels, and shadow banding. If you want to shoot low light high ISO with 70D H264 is good to ISO 1600 **
- 3rd party VAF to reduce moire and aliasing
- ML for stills HDR has more bracketing options, and dual ISO
- ML for timelapse has a valometer and silent / shutter click free, supports 4k video
- ML has clean HDMI output, 422 8bit H264 at 1600p horizontal max. resolution (needs crop)

Common strengths with 80D
- 3rd party flat or log picture profile improves DR (est. 1.5 stops) in H264 over standard Canon profiles
- PDAF with touchscreen for focus pulls
- PDAF with facial recognition permits tracking of slow to fast moving objects
- PDAF with facial recognition achieves parfocal like behavior when zooming with non-parfocal glass
- PDAF on LCD for stills shooting with focal extenders, means you arent limitted by f-stop for AF (birders/action)
- 3X zoom video does a digital zoom, which some have used to about 6X
- 3X zoom video does not line skip (no moire or aliasing)
- twistflex LCD supports shots at low/high angles

- Remote  H264 video shooting can be done by wire with EOS on windows or DSLR controller app on Android, with drag/drop focus set.  There are some 3rd party wireless router solutions (ex. TGP,  but have not used these so others have to confirm their status).


These are just a few

[Anantajit]

Hi. I still got the alpha-4a version from oct 2016. What is actually new in the later versions? Sorry, can't find the info and the changelog says nothing. Clicking previous builds to see changelog doesn't work either. Best regards.

[Walter Schulz]

Read first message in this thread.

[Anantajit]

I apologize if I'm being stupid or missing the obvious, but I can't find any notes there about what's new after 26th Oct 16. That's the last note in the changelog. Thanks.

[David_Hugh]

Hey,

I know it can be hard to keep up with the developments, there's multiple people working on different things and not really a place where one can look up everything all at once. As far as I can tell (and if you want a list of what's possible with regard to video you might want to look at ShootMeAlready's post #3030) the biggest thing you are missing out on is 10bit raw recording. You can find that build in the "experiments" section of the main page or, indeed, in the first post of this very thread.

There's also an open pull request to bring back fps override and (if I interpreted this correctly) because of the similarities/advancements on the 100D, the 70D will also soon have the losless compression working. Which is IMO, the next big "step up" for the 70D.

Hope that helps,
Dave

[Anantajit]

Thanks Dave for clarifying
Looking forward to the fps override myself.
Best wishes!

[David_Hugh]

Hey! If you mean in-camera playback when you say "I need to see the raw files on the screen" then yes, you should upgrade to the latest ML version because this works just fine! (and I think that raw_twk. is needed for that so that works too).

@nikfreak and the other developers with more insight into the latest advancements - a few posts back there were hints that lossless compression is in the making for this cam, just out of interest, what's the current state of these developements? Also, has the fps pull request ever received any attention? Just trying to keep up with what's going on at the moment!

Cheers, Dave

[Stathman]

Here!
https://builds.magiclantern.fm/experiments.html

Scroll down to 10/12-bit RAW video and download the one for the 70D.

[ShootMeAlready]

Thanx I updated the RAW shooting resolutions in my previous post on this page #3030 to match lastest experimental raw, its rather good now.

You can get to about 90% of 1920/2.35 @ 24fps with 10bit raw with full AF capabilities, continuously.
All higher resolutions like 1920/2.35 requires 30fps and MF & peaks/magic zoom with time limits (see prev post).
10bit raw slo-mo is 1920/2.35 @60fps, for 8.5s, more than enough for most needs.

With full 1920/2.35 support in 10-bit raw, this camera for video exceeds an 80D unless you want H264/IPB but even there youre shooting without the ML features and not in cinemascope (unless you post crop).  An interesting comparison would be 80D IPB slo-mo vs 70D 10 bit slo-mo. IPB when panned has shadow banding, and raw has ISO limit of about 800 for 8.5s before shadow noise (its really a trade-off comparison). 

[OlRivrRat]

           Is there a reason that the 70D is not on the "Features" List ?

If not, could whomever is the Keeper of the List Add it please ?

[shinoda]

Thanx I updated the RAW shooting resolutions in my previous post on this page #3030 to match lastest experimental raw, its rather good now.

You can get to about 90% of 1920/2.35 @ 24fps with 10bit raw with full AF capabilities, continuously.
All higher resolutions like 1920/2.35 requires 30fps and MF & peaks/magic zoom with time limits (see prev post).
10bit raw slo-mo is 1920/2.35 @60fps, for 8.5s, more than enough for most needs.

With full 1920/2.35 support in 10-bit raw, this camera for video exceeds an 80D unless you want H264/IPB but even there youre shooting without the ML features.  An interesting comparison would be 80D IPB slo-mo vs 70D 10 bit slo-mo. IPB when panned has shadow banding, and raw has ISO limit of about 800 for 8.5s before shadow noise (its really a trade-off comparison).

How about aliasing/moire at these resolutions? I just tested at 1920 / 10bits, it's pretty bad (it's supposed to be, but not that bad...). Maybe my settings aren't right? I just changed the video settings on ML before testing.

[fakokay]

http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/faq#any_progress_on_xyz

Thx for your reply. But is there any plans for developping for the DIGID 7 sensor (&&d / t7i) in the future ?

i'll keep my t5i until there's a ML for the 77D... loved too much your focus peaking / custom WB / zebra, but i love my 77D for the autofocus !

regards

[ShootMeAlready]

I have a VAF which takes care of alias/moire. I find its only a problem in certain shots.  Generally you can ensure your subject is not wearing tight stripes etc. But then again sometimes you want to shoot scenes with bricks, hydro wires, and stripes and for these your can use 3X zoom, 10bit raw for no moire/alias.  You can get to 1864x792 24fps cinemascope.

[Audionut]

Thx for your reply. But is there any plans for developping for the DIGID 7 sensor (&&d / t7i) in the future ?

Buy a magic 8 ball and shake it until it displays the answer you want.

[ShootMeAlready]

I am a little puzzled, with my resolution results.  The 3X zoom I get, it actually is a crop mode, but the 5X mode, when selected permits 1920 @2:35???
I thought the 5X mode, was a zoom only for focus checking and records just like 3X zoom, but it appears that ML requires this to get to resolutions of 1920p. 
Not sure why ML has increased resolutions in 5X mode only shouldn't theybe in 3X mode as well???

As I understand it only the T3i and 70D/80D have the 3X zoom modes ( a lossless sensor crop).

[hesk]

Hi everybody,

Update: After some more googling, I found the source and the problem and the fix (enable INFO screen in Canon Firmware). Now, everything works.

I have a somewhat urgent question. I tried to use dottune on a 70D but when I start the scan, it cycles through the info view until it stops at the level display and then it prints "Press INFO and try again." Then nothing happens.

Any idea what I can do to get it working? Thanks!

[isidroco]

Magic zoom doesn't work while recording video with latest Oct-3-2017 70d build...  It works fine when not recording.

[ShootMeAlready]

Another question I have is why does one have to use 5X mag to get to 1920p?
I am wondering how ML gets there with 5X on, but not when its off?

[Walter Schulz]

This is a very, very old one and discussed a lot: "Full frame" recording on 70D (and most other excluding 5D3) is done by line skipping (every 3rd line is recorded). Do the math, vertical pixels/3 < 1080.  It's genuinely liveview resolution you get without cropping. For 1080p in H.264 Canon does some anti-aliasing (softening), upscaling, noise reductrion and sharpening.
Crop mode does not use  line skipping but an area cropped from "full frame"

[djkraq]

Here!
https://builds.magiclantern.fm/experiments.html

Scroll down to 10/12-bit RAW video and download the one for the 70D.

Its not there

[Stathman]

Its not there

That's odd.
Maybe it's been removed by accident?
I don't know, it was there!
I can share it if you want.
Is it against the rules?