Author Topic: I need help to choose which audio tools  (Read 17364 times)

Brawl

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I need help to choose which audio tools
« on: September 28, 2013, 02:06:32 PM »
hello, I  need some devices to record the sound during shoots on short movies. I thought about a zoom h4n + 1 rode microphone, but which rode? and which would be the ideal audio gears to start taking sound on the film set? If you can give me an index I would be really grateful. Maybe they need something that I do not know.
thanks bye!

jose_ugs

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 03:34:27 PM »
Hey, it's very important to try and get an idea as what sounds on set you'll have to track... Ambient, dialog, "micro" sounds, etc... This is crucial for the mic range in particular...

Brawl

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2013, 12:25:12 AM »
Hey, it's very important to try and get an idea as what sounds on set you'll have to track... Ambient, dialog, "micro" sounds, etc... This is crucial for the mic range in particular...
thanks a lot for help, I need to take dialog indoor, outdoor, and at a certain distance sometimes! :)

Nang

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2013, 03:38:01 PM »
Hello Brawl,

I would highly recommend looking at the H6 as oppose to the H4N, if budget allows. The H6 has a hotter preamp, loads up many times faster, much longer battery life, and a cleaner interface. I used to use the H4N for audio, but ever since I switched to the H6, it has made my audio life much easier.
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jose_ugs

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2013, 12:40:27 AM »
Hey Brawl, check RØDE's NTG series, and if you're renting it, just pick the best they got. The RØDE VideoMic's are not bad at all @ what you need, but distance is a key. You can boom the NTGs, but you'll need an extra guy on set for that, while the VideoMics are more a one-man show mics. Let us know more details if u know more...

Jordy Vandeput

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2013, 11:38:54 AM »
I just ordered the Fostex DC-R302, it's a 4 channel recorder. But at the same time it can also send the signal to the camera like a Juicedlink or Beachtek. I've been working with a Juicedlink for 2 years now, and I really like the sound quality that it amplifies. But the build quality and features where lacking. When I have my Fostex, I will definitely do a full/honest review on it.

I've also been using the Rode NTG-2, and I'm very pleased with that. Remember that a H4N zoom doesn't allow you to record to the camera (unless you split the monitoring). That's something you will miss after a while. Syncing in post can be a pain sometimes.

There's also a Tascam 60D, which also allows you to record and send to the camera. But I'm not sure about it's performance/build quality..
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jose_ugs

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2013, 12:14:54 PM »
Hey Jordy, drop a few lines when you get to know the Fostex :)

Brawl

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2013, 10:19:25 PM »
thx guys, and which lavalier to buy? thx again! :)

p.s. it's connected to the zoom? how does it record? bye!

Jordy Vandeput

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2013, 03:02:14 PM »
Hey Jordy, drop a few lines when you get to know the Fostex :)

Got the Fostex today. And I muist say it's defenately worth it's money. It has all the functions I need, the S/N ratio is amazing and it can amplify up to 60db. That means I can set my analog gain in my Cnaon 5D2 to zero and with everything open on the fostex I'm still able to clip the sound :-)

Whenever I have some more time I will defenately do a review about this product. But first I wanna take it to some real shootings and experience the product.


thx guys, and which lavalier to buy? thx again! :)

p.s. it's connected to the zoom? how does it record? bye!

I don't work that much with laveliers, so I can't really say. THe times that we do work with them it are always sennheiser's. As for your second question, what do you mean? How the sound quality will be with a Zoom?
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Brawl

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2013, 01:25:57 PM »


I don't work that much with laveliers, so I can't really say. THe times that we do work with them it are always sennheiser's. As for your second question, what do you mean? How the sound quality will be with a Zoom?

thanks for reply yes I wish to know if h4n is a nice device also for this kind of microphones.

I have another question if it's possible, for example if I have a zoom h4n and the "Rode shotgun mic NTG-2" with a 3m Boom Pole, can I have a nice registration? I mean no noise. is the preamps ok? 3 meters are a lot maybe.

Jordy Vandeput

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2013, 03:23:32 PM »
thanks for reply yes I wish to know if h4n is a nice device also for this kind of microphones.

I have another question if it's possible, for example if I have a zoom h4n and the "Rode shotgun mic NTG-2" with a 3m Boom Pole, can I have a nice registration? I mean no noise. is the preamps ok? 3 meters are a lot maybe.

I haven't worked with the Zoom yet. But I've always been using the Juicedlink, directly into the camera with the rode NTG-2. Sometimes I've pulled 20 meters or more cable. All without any problem, powered by a 9v battery. So with 3m, you shouldn't be afraid :-)

Here is an example of where I've pulled 10m XLR cable with a 2 year old Juicedlink and NTG-2: https://tutsplus.com/course/corporate-filmmaking/.

I'm currently working with my Foxtex. But also here, no problem at all with 4xAA batteries to power my NTG-2 properly without noise over 10m.
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Brawl

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2013, 06:39:26 PM »
I haven't worked with the Zoom yet. But I've always been using the Juicedlink, directly into the camera with the rode NTG-2. Sometimes I've pulled 20 meters or more cable. All without any problem, powered by a 9v battery. So with 3m, you shouldn't be afraid :-)

Here is an example of where I've pulled 10m XLR cable with a 2 year old Juicedlink and NTG-2: https://tutsplus.com/course/corporate-filmmaking/.

I'm currently working with my Foxtex. But also here, no problem at all with 4xAA batteries to power my NTG-2 properly without noise over 10m.

thank you for your advice and for your link! :) I wish to ask help to understand a new concept for me: in this video at 2:09


he explain the features of the tescam dr-40 and he say that it have the "dual mode" that allow to record audio into one channel recording two volume levels (a nice protection to not clip if I have "got it". right?).  then he spoke about Zoom h4n: he say that h4n does not have this feature but that can be done with a special cable. now I wish to ask you if you can listen to this part of the video, and you can explain to me which cable is it? is it usually expansive?

thanks -a lot- for help! :)

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2013, 07:05:14 PM »
Probably an attenuating XLR.

Like something in this vein

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/135093-REG/Pro_Co_Sound_MAX20_MAX20_In_Line_Pad.html

20db is probably too much tho

5D3shooter

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2013, 02:01:42 PM »
I already have an H4N, but if I was in the market to get a field recorder today, I'd get the successor the H4N: the Zoom H6
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/967366-REG/zoom_h6_handy_audio_recorder.html

Brawl

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2013, 06:40:18 PM »
I already have an H4N, but if I was in the market to get a field recorder today, I'd get the successor the H4N: the Zoom H6
 
why? if it cost almost double? thx

vikado

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2013, 11:26:15 PM »
whatever field recorder you're using, get a mixer/preamp.
can't speak for the h6, but the h4n preamp is garbage.
i always used a preamp/mixer in combination with the h4n, mainly a juicedlink
the signal to noise ratio was was fantastic, even for a cheap lav mic.
in most cases, i didn't have to denoise the audio, just sweetening the sound in post.
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Chungdha

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2013, 01:15:20 AM »
I use h4n plus ntg2 is OK but i have to say from test I am looking forward to the Sennheiser MKE600 myself which has better directional and get even less ambient also can be powered with AA battery, so the H4N don't use up all too much juice.

Brawl

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2013, 12:50:55 AM »
is it possible to connect the rode ntg2 directly to the canon 600D (for example) thanks to magic lantern?

I mean this config: rode ntg2 + boom pole 3m + canon 600D (or other equivalent model) + magic lantern

I wish to know if is it possible to save money for the external recorder thanks to magic lantern. And use the DSLR as "audio recorder".

thx a lot again for your help. :)

5D3shooter

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2013, 06:25:16 AM »
why? if it cost almost double? thx

The H4N has noisy weak preamps and the H6 doesn't.  Also, sometimes the H4N doesn't have enough gain for certain mics even at max.  Plus the H6 has 2 more XLR inputs than the H4N.  The H6 is worth the extra money.

timbytheriver

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2013, 09:59:37 AM »
My old Juicedlink CX231 preamp was a lovely little box – very quiet, but a little heavy and 'boxy'. 

However, I've had recent success using this as an alternative system: http://www.dslrfilmnoob.com/2012/11/25/irig-pre-hack-cheap-xlr-phantom-power-preamp-dslr/


With my AT875r mini shotgun mic (which has a slightly 'hot' output) the noise floor is indistinguishable from the Juicedlink. For a lightweight run-n-gun setup I've found this to be a great little setup.

UPDATE: I should add that I use this for recording directly into my 5dmk2 – not with a separate audio recorder; I don't see why it couldn't work that way though…
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drapeama

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2013, 11:23:16 PM »
Hey Brawl, check RØDE's NTG series
For the price, it's a very decent line of shotgun microphone. I recommend them as well.

I've been working with a Juicedlink for 2 years now, and I really like the sound quality that it amplifies. But the build quality and features where lacking.
[..]
I've also been using the Rode NTG-2, and I'm very pleased with that.
1) For the preamp quality, at that price, it's hard to beat. I have the CX211 (2x units) and I love them. Allows me to record clean audio almost noise-free.
2) The JuicedLink with the NTG-2 is a solid combo. Both are excellent product in the mid-level range.

and which lavalier to buy?
For a very reasonable price, I would recommend you the Azden EX-503. It runs for about 25$ shipped on B&H and it gives decent results. It runs on "plug-in power" so there's no need of battery. You must enable that function in the camera though.
Here's a quick video I've done using it straight into the T2i:
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jose_ugs

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2013, 02:26:04 AM »
is it possible to connect the rode ntg2 directly to the canon 600D (for example) thanks to magic lantern?

I mean this config: rode ntg2 + boom pole 3m + canon 600D (or other equivalent model) + magic lantern

I wish to know if is it possible to save money for the external recorder thanks to magic lantern. And use the DSLR as "audio recorder".

thx a lot again for your help. :)

Bare in mind that the current ML development does not support audio...

drapeama

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2013, 03:44:34 AM »
Bare in mind that the current ML development does not support audio...
Haven't updated my version since the last stable release. I'll take a look at it then!
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Brawl

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2014, 01:47:48 AM »
sorry for up and for hurry I need a fast advice if it is possible.

I can choice but I have only few hours to decide.... Zoom H4n 200 euros Vs. Zoom H6 340 euros.

140 euros of differences which really makes the difference for me in this moment. but if it really worth the money I will spend them (my actual budget is about 400 euros but I need money to buy a fast CF card and save some money).
I have not other mics right now (no rode, no any other useful mics).

I need it to do foley primary. to take audio for short movies. I had a h4n in the past (owner it is my brother) and it was really good for foley.

thanks -a lot- for your help. bye


p.s.

if there is any cheaper but right choice I could point at it. for example I could maybe look at a zoom h1 but does it allow me to ear what I record with my pair of headphones during and before the rec? or is in the market any other useful option?

thanks again for your help,

Brawl

ilguercio

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Re: I need help to choose which audio tools
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2014, 01:51:40 AM »
Yes, the H1 has got line out so you can listen to what you are recording, if that does not feed the camera.
The problem with the H1 is its crappy build quality.
It's all plastic and the casing itself and the battery door make a lot of noise so not the best for an audio device.
Also, it's quite fragile and does not give you any feeling of sturdiness.
The H2n would be a good option too.
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