Author Topic: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW  (Read 97251 times)

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #75 on: September 03, 2013, 02:35:00 AM »
it was resolved the problem or is there yet??
Resolved

UPDATE:
In ACR 7.1 do not abuse the highlight, shadow recovery sliders because this might bring flickering from frame to frame.
In ACR 6.7 do not move the fill light and recovery sliders.
If you experience flickering then start backing off on ACR adjustment sliders.  I have successfully used the sliders in ACR 7.1 Tone Curve for highlight and shadow control without experiencing any flickering.
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

Faringam

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #76 on: September 03, 2013, 11:34:16 AM »
Resolved

UPDATE:
In ACR 7.1 do not abuse the highlight, shadow recovery sliders because this might bring flickering from frame to frame.
In ACR 6.7 do not move the fill light and recovery sliders.
If you experience flickering then start backing off on ACR adjustment sliders.  I have successfully used the sliders in ACR 7.1 Tone Curve for highlight and shadow control without experiencing any flickering.

Renato sei italiano? in sostanza mi stai dicendo di non usare highlits e shadow? quindi niente hdr? ti ho mandato un pm mi pare per sentirci in privato :)

Faringam

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #77 on: September 03, 2013, 12:32:33 PM »
But I have ACR 8.1

is the same or better?

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #78 on: September 03, 2013, 07:25:10 PM »
I tested ACR 8.2 beta and it did not help with the flicker.  Now I want to roll back and dont know how?
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

kh3naz

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #79 on: September 04, 2013, 10:14:54 AM »
I was doing some test and on one shot i was getting really bad flickering in the sky , so after some messing around in ACR 8.1 i found out that the only setting that was causing it was contrast , pushed highlights and shadows to the max , no flicker , put everything back to default with contrast to -20% , lots of flickering


Faringam

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #80 on: September 04, 2013, 11:29:36 AM »
I was doing some test and on one shot i was getting really bad flickering in the sky , so after some messing around in ACR 8.1 i found out that the only setting that was causing it was contrast , pushed highlights and shadows to the max , no flicker , put everything back to default with contrast to -20% , lots of flickering

If I switch to 2010 process, there isn't flickering for me!

kh3naz

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #81 on: September 04, 2013, 11:44:35 AM »
If I switch to 2010 process, there isn't flickering for me!

Interesting , but i open my DNGs in after effects with ACR , is ther ea way to change to 2010 there ?

Rewind

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #82 on: September 04, 2013, 11:47:55 AM »
Interesting , but i open my DNGs in after effects with ACR , is ther ea way to change to 2010 there ?
Of course, ACR is the same in After Effects )

kh3naz

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #83 on: September 04, 2013, 12:27:53 PM »
Of course, ACR is the same in After Effects )


awesome thanks

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #84 on: September 04, 2013, 01:03:59 PM »
I tried the 2010 with ACR8.2RC and flicker is still there.  :'(
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

kh3naz

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #85 on: September 04, 2013, 07:03:34 PM »
I tried the 2010 with ACR8.2RC and flicker is still there.  :'(

would you mind sharing a short sequence (4-5 DNG frames) where you have flickering so we can do some testing, people seem to get different results, i got rid of flickering on all my shots yesterday

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #86 on: September 05, 2013, 02:17:47 AM »
Will upload some by next week when I go to a place where I can get some bandwidth!
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

feureau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #87 on: September 15, 2013, 07:35:25 PM »
Of course, ACR is the same in After Effects )


Wait, which raw rec module/raw2dng converter do you use? I tried rawanizer, eyeframe but when I open the DNG, it wouldn't let me choose the camera profile in the ACR.  And only shows embedded: http://i.imgur.com/euuS0LP.png


dawsmart

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2013, 06:35:46 AM »
As I mentioned before, beginning with ACR 7 and Lightroom 4, Adobe introduced what they call "Process 2012" which has automatic highlight recovery that it applies without user action. Merely loading a DNG, CR2, NEF, or other type of raw file will invoke this automatic highlight recovery that you have no control over, and which I believe has the potential to cause changes in rendering from one from frame to another because it was not designed for video. There is some discussion about process 2012 by still photographers way back in early 2012 when Lightroom 4 was in beta here. http://forums.adobe.com/thread/958989?start=0&tstart=0

I think you can avoid this by using "Process 2010" if anyone would like to test it out. I can't do it myself because I cannot run ML on my 5D3 until it supports firmware 1.21.

Many thanks!  I'm using ACR and switching to 2010 fixed it for me.  :)   I thought a big part of shooting in RAW is more control - strange they would put something automatic in there you can't disable....

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #89 on: September 24, 2013, 05:08:54 AM »
would you mind sharing a short sequence (4-5 DNG frames) where you have flickering so we can do some testing, people seem to get different results, i got rid of flickering on all my shots yesterday
Ok finally uploaded the trouble DNGs here

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9z8Y0rg-pu8VjZncnN0WU5jZEE/edit?usp=sharing
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

bnvm

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #90 on: September 24, 2013, 06:19:57 PM »
Ok finally uploaded the trouble DNGs here

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9z8Y0rg-pu8VjZncnN0WU5jZEE/edit?usp=sharing

I tried out you sequence and it flickers for me as well unless I only change the WB settings. I don't think there is much that can be done until adobe addresses this issue. For now you have 2 options.

1.) Don't use ACR for anything other than WB just make sure to use 16 or 32 bit comps and do all of you color correction in AE rather than ACR.

2.) If you really want to use ACR then I may have one option that will work, the catch is that requires a plugin that costs $100, although this plugin would be useful and a big time saver for other tasks. Basically you import your footage in to AE with no correction done in ACR, next import the same sequence again and do you corrections in ACR. Next use the plugin RE:Match, which is a automatic color matching plugin, to automatically adjust the un-process sequence to the processed one. Done.

RE:Match http://www.revisionfx.com/products/rematch/ was able to perfectly match the grade when I tested the demo version and it allows you to store the adjustment at 1 frame and then reuse for the rest so there will be no flickering when done. Also this plugin would make matching grades from 1 shot to the next much faster and may be worth it for that alone.

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #91 on: September 25, 2013, 01:26:18 AM »
1.) Don't use ACR for anything other than WB just make sure to use 16 or 32 bit comps and do all of you color correction in AE rather than ACR.

Thanks for your analysis.  I am able to do very good editing with ACR using the Tone Curve where I can independently control
Highlihgts, Lights, Darks, and Shadows

I think kh3naz wanted to try switching to 2010 process but I had no luck and it flickered for me with 2010. 

BTW I am very happy using ACR with Tone Curve.  Excellent results IMHO!
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #92 on: September 25, 2013, 10:23:13 AM »
For what it's worth, do any of you see the flicker in the un-edited DNG files?
Also, do you shoot in manual with Auto-ISO?  I've found I rarely get any flickers if I hard set the ISO.

bnvm

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #93 on: September 25, 2013, 05:15:54 PM »
For what it's worth, do any of you see the flicker in the un-edited DNG files?
Also, do you shoot in manual with Auto-ISO?  I've found I rarely get any flickers if I hard set the ISO.

The footage is fine if I make no changes or only change the white balance. From what I understand ACR works on 1 image at a time and the adjustment sliders are based of the current image they are not global adjustments rather relative to the current image. I suspect that the shaking bird exposing and hiding its white feathers in this sequence is causing enough value change to trigger the flickering. Just a theory though.

bnvm

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #94 on: September 25, 2013, 05:19:05 PM »
Thanks for your analysis.  I am able to do very good editing with ACR using the Tone Curve where I can independently control
Highlihgts, Lights, Darks, and Shadows

I think kh3naz wanted to try switching to 2010 process but I had no luck and it flickered for me with 2010. 

BTW I am very happy using ACR with Tone Curve.  Excellent results IMHO!

You may want to consider option 2 then. It was able to perfectly match the adjustments I made in ACR automatically with zero flickering. I does complicate the workflow somewhat but its not too bad. BTW I did my testing with CC so adobe hasn't made any recent improvements in this area.

Jonit

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • EOS M | 700D
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #95 on: October 15, 2013, 02:15:58 PM »
I have the same problem but luma is shifting even before it opens up in ACR. Here i uploaded 5 DNGs straight from the raw2dng (also same problem when processing in raw2cdng). Due to this almost all of my 50 shots are completely unusable  :( So in my case the problem must be either the camera or raw2dng.

https://mega.co.nz/#!2NE1wTAT!Uiek1yOYeWeusNlzIihTvxRVGpo5JoN03dgLh1S94do

glubber

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
  • 550D
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #96 on: October 16, 2013, 01:03:22 PM »
I have the same problem but luma is shifting even before it opens up in ACR. Here i uploaded 5 DNGs straight from the raw2dng (also same problem when processing in raw2cdng). Due to this almost all of my 50 shots are completely unusable  :( So in my case the problem must be either the camera or raw2dng.

https://mega.co.nz/#!2NE1wTAT!Uiek1yOYeWeusNlzIihTvxRVGpo5JoN03dgLh1S94do


Just a quick guess:
You are using auto-exposure in ACR.
When opening your DNGs in ACR 3 or Rawtherapee i can't see any lumashifting. (Unless my eyes aren't able to see it  :P)

The upper ACR-screenshot is using manual settings, the lower is with "Auto" turned on. In the last case i see a shifting between pic 37 and 38.



I hope this the solution to your problem.
     
EOS 550D // Sigma 18-200 // Sigma 18-70 // Canon 10-18 STM

Jonit

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • EOS M | 700D
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2013, 10:08:17 PM »
Just a quick guess:
You are using auto-exposure in ACR.
Thanks glubber,
no, that wasn't the case. I found out that the problem was with my photo viewer. I am using Picassa to view DNG files and it seems like it applies some corrections to individual frames. I rendered the frames as a video clip and there was no luma shifting  :)
But i really appreciate your help, thank you  :)

John.

Haliburton

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #98 on: December 16, 2013, 07:21:56 AM »
Saw this in the RAWMagic thread. Looks like it could be a solution, if it could be implemented in one of the raw converter tools

"I have a suggestion, which may or may not be a good idea!

It concerns a possible fix for putting the CDNG's through ACR, which sometimes causes exposure variances, even with using Process 2010 in ACR. It seems that ACR needs the lightest and darkest points in the frame to be constant, otherwise any highlight or shadow recovery causes the exposure shifts.

If RawMagic could add another 2 lines to the image, say a pure white one at the top and a pure black one at the bottom, this would fool ACR into treating the high and low point of all the frames as the same (because they would be the same!)"


^^ This sounds promising - has anyone tried this? ^^

.

To the matter of ACR : Is it possible that there may be some settings stored within the DNG that cause or exacerbate the flickering problem?

I haven’t experienced the problem yet; most of my scenes are pretty consistently lit.

The one scene I recall having panned across widely differing lighting, I made extensive ACR settings on significant frames , then hand-tweened the .xmp files between them, as “developing” transitions.

For what it’s worth, I bulk-lock the newly-minted DNG files in the Mac Finder Get Info when they come out of raw2dng, so that development settings (process 2012) are stored only in the XMP sidecar files.


Rafael Duarte

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW
« Reply #99 on: December 18, 2013, 01:18:54 PM »
Hello, everyone. I recently bought a Blackmagic Cinema Camera and I have this same problem. Apart from this discussion, I wasn't able to get much information anywhere. You can check it out here:


The flickering is pretty intense, but I figure it is because I really cranked up the ACR sliders. This is one of the reasons I prefer using it instead of Davinci. The amount of recovery and tweeking you get in Camera Raw is not matched by Davinci, even though it is a really complete program in terms of color grading.
Personally, I really like the way ACR process raw. I have been using it with my stills and love it. It appears - at least to my eyes - that it really gets a cinematic quality out of the picture. If we can't freely use the sliders, than there's not really a point in using it. It is where the power is, for me. Using the 2010 process helps, but it also takes a lot of the power away.

I hope we can find an alternative. It seems that ACR is essential for determined picture styles.