Author Topic: Preventing Color/Luma Shifting When Processing DNGs in Adobe Camera RAW  (Read 83304 times)

Hazer

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Fyi I've been using RawTherapee, which is open source / free.  Similar controls/layout to ACR, and has produced nice results so far, and can also be batched via command line for the technically inclined.  "Auto Levels" is a setting right in the first pane, and it's a simple click to disable this feature to avoid frame to frame exposure changes.

danidm

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I had the same problem with the BMCC footage... Capture One 7 gave me the best results in DR without any flickering (maybe can appear halos if you push the DR to the limit). But at this moment i think that its imposible open the ML dngs into Capure One 7.

noealz

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Not sure if this helps, but I use LRtimelapse which creates smooth transitions between frames. If you set the end points to the same exposure, then the flickr could be gone?

Just my two cents.

Shield

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Thanks for the update squig! It's a shame because LR 4 clarity and highlight/shadows are so much better, but I guess it's a small price to pay.

Anyone know if it's possible to use the 2010 process in ACR via Photoshop, or can it only be done in Lightroom?

You can toggle the process version in Photoshop, but the older versions don't support Raw 7 (aka 2012 process).

I'm really torn here guys/gals - I just can't get my image to look how I want with 2010 process version - in 2012 it just seems so much better.  Hell I could argue that I'd rather just shoot with the non-hacked mode in lieu of raw if I have to use 2010.  No matter how I adjust the sliders and curves, I just can't get it the way I want.

I will stick to raw + 2012 and live with the occasional flicker I guess.

mvejerslev

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As norealz points out, there are de-flickering apps out there, intended for use with timelapse, which also displays this problem.
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eoshq

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FYI Lightroom and xmp:

Lightroom does not by default store settings in .xmp files, but it can do it just like ACR.

Develop module: Photo menu: Save Metadata to file or Ctrl+S

Library module: Metadata menu: Save Metadata to file or Ctrl+S

To make Lightroom always save .xmp

Edit menu: Catalog Settings: metadata tab: Automatically write changes to xmp (be warned, this will slow Lightroom down)

Shield

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The 5d3 is a remarkable camera.  I normally shoot full manual with Auto-ISO enabled, but will toggle AEL lock before recording.  I'm wondering if any of the light changes could be from someone shooting in a non-100% manual mode like Auto-ISO or A priority where something in the exposure trinity is changing (exposure / F-stop / ISO)?

Shield

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FYI Lightroom and xmp:

Lightroom does not by default store settings in .xmp files, but it can do it just like ACR.

Develop module: Photo menu: Save Metadata to file or Ctrl+S

Library module: Metadata menu: Save Metadata to file or Ctrl+S

To make Lightroom always save .xmp

Edit menu: Catalog Settings: metadata tab: Automatically write changes to xmp (be warned, this will slow Lightroom down)

Right, but in Lightroom 4 you have to export the dng file back to a dng first, and the xmp isn't an external "sidecar" file; it's embedded in the dng file itself.  Meaning I can't just grade a dng in Lightroom and export the xmp file and import it back into Adobe ACR (i.e. the first step when using the AE workflow).  One would have to replace the original 000000.dng and overwrite the first one in your dng sequence.  I'm not sure what this accomplishes; the problem appears as you stated earlier with the 2012 camera process itself, not Lightroom.

dirtcastle

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I made a post about this back on may 19th, I don't think anyone noticed so I will say it again. http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5404.msg37031#msg37031

As I mentioned before, beginning with ACR 7 and Lightroom 4, Adobe introduced what they call "Process 2012" which has automatic highlight recovery that it applies without user action. Merely loading a DNG, CR2, NEF, or other type of raw file will invoke this automatic highlight recovery that you have no control over, and which I believe has the potential to cause changes in rendering from one from frame to another because it was not designed for video. There is some discussion about process 2012 by still photographers way back in early 2012 when Lightroom 4 was in beta here. http://forums.adobe.com/thread/958989?start=0&tstart=0

I think you can avoid this by using "Process 2010" if anyone would like to test it out. I can't do it myself because I cannot run ML on my 5D3 until it supports firmware 1.21.

P.S. Please don't take this the wrong way but something I have noticed since the beginning of Magic Lantern is that there seems to be a huge disconnect between still shooters and video shooters/ML devs. Things that are common knowledge to raw still shooters, such as process versions in ACR, seem to be unknown in the video and Magic Lantern universe. I am sure there are other examples but I just find this divide interesting.

This is really good to know. Thank you!!

It sounds like switching back and forth between Process 2010/2012 will be the way to handle this.

For those who are wondering where the "Process" options in Lightroom are: in the Develop tab it's under Settings.

Levinson

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Does switching Processes to 2010 with ACR (After Effects front end) achieve the same results as in Lightroom?

I'm seeing similar exposure variations using the 2010 and 2003 processes in ACR. They appear to be an improvement over 2012, but there is still flicker present under some conditions.

Has anyone made any breakthroughs here discovery wise?
5d3, 5d2 & 550d

dandeliondandy

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Hmm... I've been shooting with the 5dmkII and editing my shots in photoshop, then importing the sequence into after effects. Shooting indoors with pans from dark walls to windows, or direct sun, etc, and I haven't seen any flickering so far. I'm using photoshop cs6. I'm assuming that would be process 2012? What could be causing that issue for you guys?

mvejerslev

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I havent seen exposure flicker since a very early build of raw_rec. Could it  perhaps be a camera setting doing this? Perhaps something like auto-lighting optimizer or similar in the canon menus?
5D Mark II, PC

squig

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We've already covered this, it's ACR and Lightroom, it's very easy to reproduce, just go extreme with the highlight slider.

Levinson

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Considering how effective and fast ACR tweaks are it is unfortunate this is happening. I find I can't quite get the latitude from Resolve.

There's some clever processing going on in ACR that the others apps can't seem to match.
5d3, 5d2 & 550d

Levinson

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I'm getting quite good results using the 2012 parametric curves option in ACR, but it's still not as effective as the shadow/highlights controls which manage to retain colour in areas that even an HDR workflow can't keep. Will be great if Adobe cat get this sorted.

5d3, 5d2 & 550d

s---70

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I tried every process (2003, 2010, 2012) and each of them shows flickering when applying shadow / highlight recovery, but they do it in a quite different way and in different "situations". In the shot I used for testing there is very dull lighting in the beginning and then an overexposed window gets into the view. The 2010 process produces a completely different image as soon as the window is slightly visible ad then stays exactly the same. So it seems that it's based on the brightest point in the image. Actually I made an example video showing each process but when rendering somehow ACR applied the 2012 setting to eacht of the clips. As I don't want to wait out 10min. rendering again + 40 min vimeo conversion right now I upload it again tomorrow.

Also I thought that the shadow / highlight recovery somehow uses blackpoint / whitepoint metadata (that might vary frame to frame ??) to determine its paramters and that we could somehow override those, but this seems unlikely as the flickering also appears in cinema DNG converted sequences which have an explicitly set blackpoint (e.g. 2037, 16000 for 5dm3)

squig

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It's happening with the exposure, highlight, and fill light sliders on all 3 processes and yeah not to the same extent in each. The black and shadow sliders in the second (curves) window are ok for me so far with process 2010.

s---70

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yeah but the curves don't really "recover" anything, you could as well apply them outside of ACR. It's a pity that resolves demosaicing is so much worse, because you can kind of mimic the ACR highlight recovery in it. On my 5dm2 it introduces really bad aliasing on narrow lines which doesn't appear in ACR at all (except for brick walls and those things of course).

rockfallfilms

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I've just experienced this, it's pretty annoying. Has anyone tried the camera raw 8 update?

Just tried it, no change unfortunately.

s---70

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I just downloaded the Capture One 7 trial and with that it doesn't flicker. Shadows are nice, highlight recovery is a bit worse though. It looks a bit like the "Shadows/Highlights" effect in AE. Also it's an awkward workflow. But on my 5dm2 it does the best demosaicing of all, even better than ACR!

xNiNELiVES

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So you can do your editing in capture one 7, without color/Luma shift, and then export?

s---70

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If you mean colour editing, yes. But the shadow and highlight recovery isn't really good unfortunately, it produces some halos.

Kabuto1138

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Hey guys,

Please help!!  So is there a way to prevent this flickering when processing in ACR?  That flicker is driving me nuts.

thanks

Shield

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I still get flickers before the files even hit ACR.  Just shoot a scene in normal lighting and pan into a bright background, or even walk in front of a lens - it will flicker, even with ISO and all settings on manual.

When this problem happens I have to import these dng files in Lightroom and go to the file where the "flicker" happens, adjust exposure +/-, and either sync the remaining files or until the exposure comes back to where it was.  Often times it's a full stop flicker.

Ryan Lightbourn

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When this problem happens I have to import these dng files in Lightroom and go to the file where the "flicker" happens, adjust exposure +/-, and either sync the remaining files or until the exposure comes back to where it was.  Often times it's a full stop flicker.

Shield, do you see a change in the metadata when inspecting the 'shifted' stills, or are they the same as the others?
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