Author Topic: ML UI rationalization  (Read 86070 times)

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #325 on: September 07, 2013, 05:33:11 AM »
Exposure duration is normally Canon shutter speed. Bulb timer is not that widely used, since you rarely need exposures longer than 30 seconds. So, a menu for this under Intervalometer looks a bit weird.

If you enable both bulb timer and intervalometer, it's obvious what you want to do. But if you are in bulb mode and you only enable intervalometer, there's no Canon shutter speed that you can use (so I used the bulb timer setting because that was the only reasonable value I could think of).

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #326 on: September 07, 2013, 06:44:35 AM »
Ok I didn't even understand what you were asking. I thought you wanted a way to set long shutter speeds (exposure duration) in Intervalometer, assuming that very long exposures might be wanted sometimes - star-fields etc.

The root problem is that "Bulb timer" is a misnomer. "Bulb" by definition, is not a timed exposure at all, but manual exposure. The feature is really an extra long exposure. "Long exposure"

So by the true definition of "bulb" you should not be able to use Intervalometer in Bulb mode, because it doesn't make sense to use a manual exposure when doing time-lapse.

If you say ML needs Bulb mode to implement extra long exposures, then I'd say, answering your question, that if the user enables Intervalometer in Bulb mode, they should be told to enable Bulb timer (thereby providing long exposures), or exit Bulb mode in order to choose a normal shutter speed normally.

It's best to avoid perversion of understood concepts.
Steve Falcon

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #327 on: September 07, 2013, 06:49:43 AM »
So, would it make sense to rename Bulb timer to Long exposure?

xNiNELiVES

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #328 on: September 07, 2013, 07:30:39 AM »
Well your the admin can't you apply the change? Nice of you to check with the community here though. Yeah it would make sense to change the name.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #329 on: September 07, 2013, 07:33:22 AM »
That hinges on implementation. Does long timed exposure rely on the camera being in bulb mode?

- long exposure relies on bulb mode
      call it "Bulb timer"
      in bulb mode, when intervalometer is enabled, warn "In bulb mode you must turn on 'Bulb timer' to use intervalometer"

- long exposure does not rely on bulb mode
      call it "Long exposure"
      lock out "Long exposure" and Intervalometer in bulb mode (neither makes sense in bulb mode)
Steve Falcon

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #330 on: September 07, 2013, 07:37:55 AM »
Yes, it does (try it).

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #331 on: September 07, 2013, 08:39:17 AM »
Yes, I realize it is currently disabled outside bulb mode. But the question is whether it *must* rely on bulb mode. If so, then the "Bulb timer" concept is sort of necessary. Therefore:

- long exposure relies on bulb mode
      call it "Bulb timer"
      in bulb mode, when user tries to enable intervalometer, warn "In bulb mode you must turn on 'Bulb timer' to use intervalometer".

If the user doesn't want that, they can leave bulb mode, and use standard timed shutter speeds.
Steve Falcon

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #332 on: March 19, 2018, 10:40:36 PM »
Even if this thread is old, I think it's still the best place to discuss UI changes.

Suggestion under review: long-press SET/Q to open ML submenus on EOS M.
- advantage: using the Q button as on all other models
- disadvantage: long-press handling means short-press actions will be executed on release (slower feedback; I've found it unnatural after playing with it for a while)

Alternative:
- use the PLAY button to open submenus, in addition to Q (either only on EOS M, or possibly on all models)
- currently, this button decrements values for historical reasons, but I've never found myself using it... until Walter noticed it:

4.) Triangle icon. Used to start an action ("Play Button") and used show/hide menu options. Seen in MLV lite submenu: Playback will start playback and Advanced ... will show hidden items. Not that great IMO.

Another issue: many users end up pressing the MENU key and then they don't know how to go back.
Suggestion: disable the Junkie menu (anyone using it?) and just make the MENU key go back (until exiting ML menu).

Disabling the Junkie menu would save 4.5K of RAM (might be useful for e.g. 1100D).

MENU could also be reused for opening ML submenus, but that's a bit inconsistent with Canon menus (where it always goes back).

nikfreak

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #333 on: March 20, 2018, 04:45:17 PM »
+1 for removing the Junkie menu.
70D.112 & 100D.101

Walter Schulz

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #334 on: March 20, 2018, 05:07:06 PM »
Wasn't there a suggestion about using "junkie tech" to enable touchscreen controls for ML?

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #335 on: March 20, 2018, 05:12:25 PM »
There was, but the interest in pushing it forward seems pretty low.

None of my cameras has touch screen, btw, so it will take a while until I'll get it working in QEMU.

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #336 on: March 21, 2018, 02:56:20 PM »
Some UI updates committed to lua_fix (will be in the next build; feel free to compile from source for early testing):

- EOS M has SET/Q, just like 100D; now this button is handled in the same way on both models:
    -> short press = SET (including ETTR trigger, exposure presets and whatever else uses the SET key in ML)
    -> long press = Q (Canon settings)
- 100D, EOSM: hold SET at startup to bypass ML (just like all other models; previously, these two used INFO)
- all models: disabled the Junkie menu (can be re-enabled with FEATURE_JUNKIE_MENU in features.h); MENU just goes back
- all models: PLAY opens submenus (in addition to Q)

All of the above were tested in QEMU.

Let me know how it feels (I can revert any of them if needed).