ML UI rationalization

[Alex_TNT]

I agree about transparency, as a graphic designer, the current "theme" looks like an MS-DOS interface.

Not the entire menu to be hard to see.

Well, since unfortunately :-( the nice transparency is gone and only a black background remains the pop up menu idea is perverted and I guess it makes sense to use all available space for the submenu - however I still like the current approach better since there's at least the static top navigation part of the screen that doesn't change creating less visual confusion, maybe that's just me ... my 2 cents is to restore the transparency.

[Marsu42]

I agree about transparency, as a graphic designer, the current "theme" looks like an MS-DOS interface.

Lol, I'd like to see you discuss with stevefal :-> who argued that the "cleaner" menus are the one sane design approach - not being a graphic designer I was unable to deny that, so it's nice there are different opinions here.

Btw I really like most of the new ui and stevefal's junkie mode, however the current submenu design is neither here nor there, so if I count the recent posts it's 2:2 full screen submenus vs. old school popup+transparency :-o

[Alex_TNT]

Btw I really like most of the new ui and stevefal's junkie mode, however the current submenu design is neither here nor there

As the current menu may look old, I have to agree that currently there's no other better design that the current one.
It's not like building an website or new app. There are limitations.
Again I have to agree with you

[basovandrey]

Developers stop, think again.
For photographers need a simple, intuitive interface.
Instead of an abundance of circles, stars, rectangles of different colors.
When you do not know what will happen if you press the SET button.

[Michael Zöller]

When you do not know what will happen if you press the SET button.

You have not actually used the "new" interface, have you?

[1%]

Works alright compared to the old menus. Indications are much clearer if a bit overzealous. Broke adv. bracketing (video), the other focus stacking we had, property viewer, memory browser (somewhat fixed), separate wav stuff on 600D (this one easy fix I think).

I find myself hitting the trash button and reloading the whole menu vs hitting menu to go back when holding camera with one hand tho.

Junkie mode is convenient with 2 wheels, you can really zoom through it and glad you can hide things separately.

Overall, I'd say its a win, even if a bit painful. Can't really be so stuck on the menus either way, they're just there to let you get your shit done.

[basovandrey]

You have not actually used the "new" interface, have you?

Old menu.
for example menu DISPLAY. Press SET
LV BRIGHTNESS (good)
LV CONTRAST (good)
LV SATURATION (good)
LV DISPLAY GAIN (?) - Press Q -? Please do the as (LV SATURATION). There only 8 values​​.
COLOR SCHEME (good)
CLEAR OVERLAYS (good)
DEFISHING (!?) - Press Q - there only 2 values​​. Please do the as (CLEAR OVERLAYS).
ANAMORPHIC (!?) - Press Q - there only 5 values​​. Please do the as (CLEAR OVERLAYS).
ADAVANCED SETTING (good)

New Junkie mode i can not understand, so i use the old menu/

thanks for understanding

[wolf]

@basovandrey
nice visualization of the complex looking menu. I feel that way too.

For my personal use I disable the icons in the source code. I also don't use the junkie menu, there are too many greys and colors and I can't get used to the different heights of the fields. But, I guess the people like it the way it is better and I have to accept it.

All in all ML is great tool for my EOS camera. I think it's really useful to trigger the camera with a wave gesture on a tripod not to mention the other great features.
 

[basovandrey]

ML is very, very, very great software. But I'm talking about the management that is they are complex as the management of the spacecraft.

continued MENU DISPLAY.
ADVANSED SETTING Press SET open the submenu. This confuses my because in the menu ANAMORPHIC opens a submenu only button Q.

Icons...

[basovandrey]

proposal to replace these icons are
line is visible only when you hover over.

[wolf]

@a1ex
like the new square icons. [:-)]

I don't understand why the half circle indicator is sometimes blue and sometimes green. Because I found it in the script parameters I think it's a bug.

[g3gg0]

ML is very, very, very great software. But I'm talking about the management that is they are complex as the management of the spacecraft.

well, for this reason there are two different visualization types for the menu.
the plain old DOS-look and the star trek look

[basovandrey]

Alex menu DISPLAY it became very good.
let me write some more

MENU AUDIO 
submenu DIGITAL Gain - LEFT  DIGITAL GAIN please do pickbox-friendly. There only 7 values​​.
DIGITAL Gain - LEFT  DIGITAL GAIN please do pickbox-friendly. There only 7 values​​.

MENU EXPO
submenu ISO - CANON DIGITAL ISO please do pickbox-friendly. There only 5 values​​.
submenu ISO everywhere is incorrect icon. !?
submenu PICTURESTYLE - SHARPNESS please do pickbox-friendly. There only 8 values​​.
submenu PICTURESTYLE - CONTRAST please do pickbox-friendly. There only 8 values​​.

MENU OVERLAY
submenu MAGICZOOM - SIZE  incorrect icon. !?

MENU MOVIE
GRADUAL EXPO  please do pickbox-friendly. There only 7 values​​.
submenu IMAGE FINETUNING - ML DIGITAL ISO incorrect icon. !?

MENU SHOOT
submenu ADVANCED BRACKET - EV INCREMENT please do pickbox-friendly. There only 8 values​​.
submenu MOTION DETECT - DETECT SIZE incorrect icon. !?

MENU FOCUS
FOLLOW FOCUS please do pickbox-friendly. There only 2 values​​.

thanks for understanding

[1%]

On all cameras or just for you?

*not a fan of pickbox at all for numerical values that increment.

[basovandrey]

On all cameras or just for you?

*not a fan of pickbox at all for numerical values that increment.

it is only on the values ​​when it is convenient and does not disturb do not complicate management

[Marsu42]

*not a fan of pickbox at all for numerical values that increment.

+1 with two exceptions:

* ISO values should go into a dropdown because they are basically a setting and not continuous, iso just happens to be numerical

* The 8 values of "EV increment" for bracketing should also be a dropdown because "frames"  above is and also the rest of this submenu

[a1ex]

GRADUAL EXPO  please do pickbox-friendly. There only 7 values​​.

I highly doubt you want to think which of these values you need every time you are using this feature...

[basovandrey]

variants of icons

[basovandrey]

Propose to change the sequence in the custom menu: first press of the set to hide what is not in use, and the second to add to my menu.

My example: hide 51 points and added to my menu 5
up to 51 * 2 +5 = 107 button clicks set
after 51 +5 * 2 = 61 button clicks set

[basovandrey]

Hello. Suggest to give up the submenu. Thus.

[Marsu42]

Hello. Suggest to give up the submenu.

My quick first impression: interesting idea, because it'd be a good way to further nest structures if required.

The tree approach also could be quicker if ml would automatically close the "submenu" tree once you move away from a "submenu" item, so you could save the current "back to main menu" q press (though q still should close the tree from any submenu item if the user wants it). Also after opening the tree with Q the cursor should auto-jump to the first item or you have to q-down all the time.

Possible issue that come to my mind, ymmv:
* a tree might be more confusing since now everything looks like one big config (like gnome's settings file...) even though it's hierarchical - submenus make a clearer distinction between main item and config.
* the tree really looks crappy in junkie mode, maybe the submenus could/should be kept there?
* some submenus have a lot of items filling the whole screen, so a submenu might look cleaner than a big tree expanding
* the dead space on the left leaves even less room for the submenu item discription - it's often crammed as it is now.

[basovandrey]

* the dead space on the left leaves even less room for the submenu item discription - it's often crammed as it is now.

Example. a wide menu is suitable 1:1




- icon tabs when you open a submenu, less bright
- new submenu, you can open without closing the previous

[brapodam]

I have a quick suggestion on the UI.

Change "Customize Menus" under Preferences tab to "Customize 'My Menu'" or "Customize Favourites Tab". While it may be obvious to some people what "customize menus" mean, it was not immediately obvious to me what it did, and I only "found" the feature accidentally. Such a useful feature should not be hidden; it should be immediately obvious even to first time users of ML.

[a1ex]

@stevefal:

Just remembered a little inconsistency in the UI regarding bulb timer. Scenarios:

- You enable bulb timer, you configure the bulb duration there => it works, fine.

- You enable intervalometer, you are in bulb mode. Currently it uses the bulb timer duration (even if bulb timer is off). So, a setting from submenu gets used if the main menu entry is turned off.

What solution would you choose?

- take a 1-second exposure if bulb timer is off (or use some other reasonable value?)

- move bulb timer duration in a new menu - e.g. Bulb preferences, near Shoot preferences (but you lose convenience of adjusting it near the bulb timer where you enabled it)

- move duration in a new menu, but also keep a mirrored setting in the bulb timer submenu? (may create confusion since there are two different menus that do the same thing)

-

Same with auto ETTR (you know the story).

[stevefal]

Sorry, just saw this (no notifications).

For the Bulb/Intervalometer case, two choices, assuming current structure.

1) put a new independent 'Exposure duration' setting in Intervalometer menu
2) put a shared setting 'Exposure duration' setting in both Intervalometer and Bulb Timer menus. Note in lower help that "Setting is shared with <other feature>"

I think the only argument for #2 is if intervalometer users very commonly use the same exposure duration in both features. Perhaps they always take take a test shot using bulb timer, and then setup the Intervalometer using the same setting. A shared setting makes that official.

and then 'the works":

3) In Intervalometer, offer:

   Exposure duration
         Same as bulb timer (5s)
         1s
         2s
         ...etc