Bilal's crop_rec_4k experiments for 650D / 700D (T4i / T5i)

[lightwriter]

Hello @theBilalFakhouri

Thank you very much for your detailed answer!
Unfortunately, I followed all your steps but it stops recording the instant I begin, and the frames are corrupted.

In RAW video I selected 1600, but when I go to Crop mode V2, I didn't change X resolution, but it says 1736. What bit depth should I select in Crop Mode V2? Or should it be off? And in RAW video, I chose 12 bit lossless; is this the way to go?

At the bottom, it says in yellow that it will record at 64MB/s, 0x5.4MB, 23.982 (49%). Expect around 0 frames at 56.3MB/s.

Pressing Menu button twice, the resolution of Crop mode V2 shows 1736x2040 1x3, RAW video shows 1600x2040 1.74x and SD Overclock is at 192MHz

I did low level format in the original canon menu when formatting.

What am I doing wrong? Sorry for the trouble.

P.S.: Would the Sandisk Extreme Pro 170MB/s V30 be a better choice by allowing 240MHz?

P.P.S.: In Benchmark, with SD Overclock at 192MHz I'm getting write speeds of about 54 MB/s...it's on the low side, no?

[aserranojr]

Hi guys, thank you for this wonderful forum. I am a new ML user. I apologize in advanced if this question is given already. I did search the forum but am having a hard time finding the answer. Is the Eos 700D able to shoot in 50fps in 1080p? I really need to know this. Thank you so much in advance.

[theBilalFakhouri]

Is it possible to get a full 16:9 ratio over the HDMI output without the black vertical sidebars at any resolution?  I mean straight out of the camera without processing.  I know the T5i can't do a full-screen 1080i, but stretching or cropping with OBS software introduces some lag that is awkward on Zoom calls.

Note: I tried Canon's EOS WebCam software that uses USB instead of HDMI but the frame rate was way too low for reasonable Zoom calls.

Unfortunately clean HDMI output (without the black bars on both sides) from 700D/T5i isn't possible, I was doing some experiments regarding these black bars, I got promising results, you can see here (first post, the HDMI experiment):
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=25287.0

So I think implementing clean HDMI output on T5i is possible and we know where to start, but currently I am unable to continue experimenting, lack of time, sorry.


@lightwriter

You're welcome!

When I mentioned 1600x2040 preset, I think here:

There is 1x3 Mode which use full width sensor (1.61 Crop) which is 1736x2214 @ 23.976 FPS 2.35:1 AR you can achieve it by crop_new on 700D, however this mode isn't continuous even with the 240 MHz overclock and 10-bit lossless, you may lower the resolution to 1600x2040 @ 23.976 FPS 2.35:1 AR with 1.74 Crop to get continuous recording ..

To achieve continuous recording you need to use 10-bit lossless, and you need the 240 MHz overclock (with Sandisk Extreme PRO 170 MB/s card)

In RAW video I selected 1600, but when I go to Crop mode V2, I didn't change X resolution, but it says 1736.

Yes, This seems correct, keeping X value to zero will give the default X resolution which is 1736 in grey color.

What bit depth should I select in Crop Mode V2? Or should it be off?

For continuous recording, you need to select 10-bit from "Crop mode V2" , and keep it 14-bit lossless from "RAW video".

At the bottom, it says in yellow that it will record at 64MB/s, 0x5.4MB, 23.982 (49%). Expect around 0 frames at 56.3MB/s.

You will need to use 10-bit from "Crop mode V2" to lower the data rate, also you will need 240 MHz overclock which gives up to 68 MB/s write speed in video mode, 192 MHz is limited to ~55 MB/s maybe a little more which won't give continuous recording in this mode . .

Pressing Menu button twice, the resolution of Crop mode V2 shows 1736x2040 1x3, RAW video shows 1600x2040 1.74x

Yes, this seems correct too, recording at this stage (after pressing Menu button twice) would allow you to record some seconds without corrupted frames, right?

I did low level format in the original canon menu when formatting.

What am I doing wrong? Sorry for the trouble.

P.S.: Would the Sandisk Extreme Pro 170MB/s V30 be a better choice by allowing 240MHz?

P.P.S.: In Benchmark, with SD Overclock at 192MHz I'm getting write speeds of about 54 MB/s...it's on the low side, no?

Everything you are doing is correct actually, but you will need the 240 MHz overclock with 170 MB/s Sandisk Extreme Pro and 10-bit depth from "Crop mode V2" for continuous recording, the 192 MHz benchmarks looks okay too if you did the benchmark in video mode, try running benchmark in PLAY mode, run benchmark and press PLAY button; this should give you ~80 MB/s write and read speeds.

Have you managed to get some clips without corrupted frames in this mode?

[lightwriter]

Hello again @theBilalFakhouri!

Thank you so much for your detailed and easy to follow answer.

I ran the benchmark in play mode and you were right; I'm getting read speeds of 85.6MB/s and write speeds of 79.6MB/s.

Most of my clips over around 10-14 seconds; however, I managed to record one clip with approximately 1 minute of duration. I don't know how this happened, but it was the exception.

1 - I recorded 5 clips - two of the shorter ones don't have any problem; the other two short ones have a lower horizontal stripe corrupted (around 80-100 pixels height, perhaps?), and the longer clip was fine. What can I do to prevent the horizontal corrupted band? Here is one example of a corrupted frame: https://imgur.com/BLhAOr3 - all these clips were recorded at 192MHz overclock.

2 - You talked about using ML Framing to check framing. I've searched the options but I can't find it...could you point me to the right direction?

3 - The Sandisk Extreme PRO 170MB/s card you talked about is this one, right?: https://www.amazon.es/SanDisk-Extreme-Pro-Tarjeta-Memoria/dp/B07H9J1YXN/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=Sandisk+Extreme+PRO+170+MB%2Fs+64&qid=1607862081&quartzVehicle=74-902&replacementKeywords=sandisk+extreme+pro+mb%2Fs+64&sr=8-1

4 - In MLVapp, in order to export with the correct aspect ratio, I inserted the values of 2400 by 1020 - this method works, but is it the best one?

5 -  Several users posted images of benchmarks with the 170MB/s card, 240Mhz. One user showed the first write speed being high - 66.7MB/s, but the second one reaching only 51.8MB/s. This happened with a EOS M, in movie mode. Are those values normal? https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12862.625 - bottom of the page.
In this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm1pFNRIlcI&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=Zeek., by the 2.14 minutes mark, with an EOS M, using a 64GB 170MB/s card the results were as follow: write speed: 20.4MB/s

6 - In normal situations, the shutter speed appears as N/A (I can change the shutter speed but I can't see the value), even if in Crop mode V2 I activate Full range in Shutter range. If, in the Movie tab, I select FPS override, then it shows a value of 0,4'', but I can't change it. What's the solution?

Thanks again for your help!

[theBilalFakhouri]

@lightwriter

Hi again!

1- This corruption due to un-refreshed LiveView, to prevent this:

-You should always press Menu button twice for refreshing LiveView to apply the new settings, after changing them in crop_new "Crop mode V2", even when you turn off the module, you should press Menu button twice.

Also when you startup the camera and if crop_new was already ON you need to refresh LiveView manually!

2- In mlv_lite submenu --> Preview --> Framing

3- Yeah, that's what I am using

4- ?

MLVApp corrects aspect ratio automatically for you, you don't need to change anything regarding resolution. The output would be correct.

5- EOS M has some problems with 240 MHz overclock it doesn't work fine on this camera even with 170 MB/s Sandisk Extreme PRO cards (except one card: Sandisk Extreme PRO 170MB/s with 512 GB Capacity) , doing a "Low Level Format" would fix the speed drop issue e.g: from 66.7 MB/s to 51.8 MB/s -- these things have been discussed before in this topic.

6- This issue has been discussed here

[theBilalFakhouri]

Hi guys, thank you for this wonderful forum. I am a new ML user. I apologize in advanced if this question is given already. I did search the forum but am having a hard time finding the answer. Is the Eos 700D able to shoot in 50fps in 1080p? I really need to know this. Thank you so much in advance.

Hello!

If you mean 1080p50 in H.264, no you can't (reason: hardware limitations), however:
700D doesn't record native 1920x1080 resolution in H.264, it's actually upscale 1736x976 to 1920x1080 in H.264, so now if your question was " Can we record 1736x976 @ 50 FPS in RAW? "

Kind of, with limitations, the sensor support up to 1736x970 @ 50 FPS:

-You have to record in uncompressed RAW to avoid corrupted frames, @ 10-bit uncompressed the write speed would be 100 MB/s
-You will have stretched LiveView

This can be achieved in crop_new

You're welcome

[lightwriter]

@lightwriter

Hi again!

1- This corruption due to un-refreshed LiveView, to prevent this:
Also when you startup the camera and if crop_new was already ON you need to refresh LiveView manually!

2- In mlv_lite submenu --> Preview --> Framing

3- Yeah, that's what I am using

4- ?

MLVApp corrects aspect ratio automatically for you, you don't need to change anything regarding resolution. The output would be correct.

5- EOS M has some problems with 240 MHz overclock it doesn't work fine on this camera even with 170 MB/s Sandisk Extreme PRO cards (except one card: Sandisk Extreme PRO 170MB/s with 512 GB Capacity) , doing a "Low Level Format" would fix the speed drop issue e.g: from 66.7 MB/s to 51.8 MB/s -- these things have been discussed before in this topic.

6- This issue has been discussed here

Hi @theBilalFajhouri!

Thanks for your answer. Regarding number four you're right, the MLVapp corrects the aspect ratio; I only have to insert the resolution values for exporting.

I have read the answers related to number 6, but there you said "shutter speeds are working fine in all presets, and both from ML and Canon menu shutter speed is showing correctly " My build is crop_rec_4k.2020Sep30.700D115. Is this problem related to this specific build or am I doing something wrong?

I bought the Sandisk Extreme PRO 170MB/s card, and it indeed allows me to record indefinitely (almost always), but I'm having corrupted frames (random frames with the bottom half being pink). Is there some setting I can alter to prevent this from happening?

[far.in.out]

Hi. Is H264 cropped recording available on 700D or 650D? 1:1 or 1:3 with binning?

[Walter Schulz]

Supported cams: https://builds.magiclantern.fm/features.html -> Movie -> CROP_MODE_HACK

[far.in.out]

Thanks. 1x3 binning works for H264 too, right? What about live preview while recording? How good is it? Does hdmi preview work in this mode?

[Walter Schulz]

Looks like 1:1 to me.

1x3 binning works for H264 too, right?

Looks like 1:1 to me.

What about live preview while recording? How good is it?

Unsure what you want to know. I get a 3x electronically zoomed frame in 16:9 which fills display horizontal. Both in idle and during recording.

Does hdmi preview work in this mode?

If you want to ask what I get via HDMI: Looks like 1620x912 embedded in 1920x1080 and it is the same content (apart from overlays) shown by display when HDMI is not connected.

[masc]

Thanks. 1x3 binning works for H264 too, right? What about live preview while recording? How good is it?

No. 1x3 recording can work in RAW only. Liveview is realtime.

[far.in.out]

Thanks guys. One last question - when recording in H264 1:1 crop mode, what resolution is it reading from the sensor? Is it 1920x1080 or is it something less than that and it gets upscaled?

I was initially thinking of getting the 600D for it's aliasing free 3x zoom mode for H264. But then I saw the latest progress on RAW and the fact that you can now shoot aliasing free RAW with a crop factor of 2 on several cams. So I'm willing to give RAW another shot while having cropped H264 as a fall back. So that makes 700D a good choice I guess. No point in getting 600D any more.

[Walter Schulz]

Is it 1920x1080 or is it something less than that and it gets upscaled?

https://wiki.magiclantern.fm/glossary#native_resolution

[far.in.out]

Thanks Walter. It looks like the wiki is about the full sensor mode. Is it the same case with cropped H264?

[Walter Schulz]

Is it the same case with cropped H264?

Do the math on your own, please!


Pics taken with 650D.

[far.in.out]

OK, millimeters from your pics (425/141) have a ratio of 3.014184397.
While full horizontal sensor res divided by 1920 (5184/1920) is 2.7.
But I don't think this is a reliable way of checking if there's upscaling going on. 

Hm, after looking at it for some time I don't see how cropped horiz res can be more than 1/3 of full sensor res, which is 1728.

[ML700D]

hi,
thanks for the bilal's crop_rec_4k, I installed it few days ago. This is my first camera I bought.
I still confuse actually for the setting when switching between photo and video..
for instance if I set on crop rec new in video mode with 1x3 binning then switch to photo mode the preview zoomed a bit like in video mode, is it normal?
and if I set the crop mode ON the preview always zoomed. How to get actual preview like normal recording? Thanks.

sorry for my bad english 

[ML700D]

hi again,
after I tried several times now I understand a bit. 
when I choose preset the preview looks perfect, I tried UHD 1x3 Anamorphic 1280x2160
as described here https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=25323.25

I think this is more than enough for me to take some footage.. @theBilalFakhouri you're great!

btw.. the black bar is not always black sometimes it turn like pink zebra flickering and sometimes the preview doesn't change between normal and zoom.

thanks.

[ML700D]

Hi again.. 
I have a problem when the crop_rec is ON then switch to Photo mode and take a photo, the camera got busy quiet long until I turn off and open the battery lid.. I don't know if it's right or not.. but I tried several times it turned out to be the same.

[theBilalFakhouri]

Hello @ML700D !

Sorry for the delay, glad you liked the build

..
for instance if I set on crop rec new in video mode with 1x3 binning then switch to photo mode the preview zoomed a bit like in video mode, is it normal?
and if I set the crop mode ON the preview always zoomed. How to get actual preview like normal recording? Thanks.
..

..
I have a problem when the crop_rec is ON then switch to Photo mode and take a photo, the camera got busy quiet long until I turn off and open the battery lid.. I don't know if it's right or not.. but I tried several times it turned out to be the same.

Thanks for reporting, Crop mode module should be disabled in Photo mode to avoid Zoomed preview and "Busy" state when capturing photos, currently you can do it manually, just set "Crop mode" to "OFF", I will prevent "Crop mode" from being ON when we in Photo mode, and will release a new build.

..
btw.. the black bar is not always black sometimes it turn like pink zebra flickering ..
..

The bottom part of preview would have some flickering and weird patterns in presets which have correct real-time previews, this is normal, current solution is to make sure Global Draw is ON, and use mlv_lite module, this will draw black box on this flickering area.

..
.. and sometimes the preview doesn't change between normal and zoom.
..

I need to know your camera settings to reproduce the issue, which preset have you used? are you in Video mode? which modules are enabled?

You may want to share a video including what are you doing, this make things easier to reproduce the issue.

[theBilalFakhouri]

Hello @lightwriter

Sorry for the delay:

I have read the answers related to number 6, but there you said "shutter speeds are working fine in all presets, and both from ML and Canon menu shutter speed is showing correctly " My build is crop_rec_4k.2020Sep30.700D115. Is this problem related to this specific build or am I doing something wrong?

Your 700D have different shutter blanking addresses, resulting in wrong shutter speeds when using my build, the problem isn't from the build itself, on my 700D it works just fine because the addresses used in my build matches the addresses which my 700D generate, let's say for now some 700D models are different from other 700D models, and your 700D need other shutter blanking addresses.

a1ex did explain this case earlier and I did mention it before, current temporary solution is to release two builds which include the two addresses, or find a way to add them in one build.
I may do it in near future.

I bought the Sandisk Extreme PRO 170MB/s card, and it indeed allows me to record indefinitely (almost always), but I'm having corrupted frames (random frames with the bottom half being pink). Is there some setting I can alter to prevent this from happening?

During my tests, SD overclocking isn't related to corrupted frames in any way.

Please provide a frame or short MLV clip which have corrupted frames your are experiencing, probably you are using "Crop mode V2" which is a bit buggy right now, and always make sure you are refreshing LiveView manually by pressing Menu button twice (I have explained this before).

You may want to stick with "Crop mode" (crop_rec) for now which works better.

[ML700D]

Hello @ML700D !

Sorry for the delay, glad you liked the build

Thanks for reporting, Crop mode module should be disabled in Photo mode to avoid Zoomed preview and "Busy" state when capturing photos, currently you can do it manually, just set "Crop mode" to "OFF", I will prevent "Crop mode" from being ON when we in Photo mode, and will release a new build.

Ohh.. Ok. thanks 

The bottom part of preview would have some flickering and weird patterns in presets which have correct real-time previews, this is normal, current solution is to make sure Global Draw is ON, and use mlv_lite module, this will draw black box on this flickering area.

If Global Draw is ON the preview looks jittery
I use mlv_lite module.

I need to know your camera settings to reproduce the issue, which preset have you used? are you in Video mode? which modules are enabled?

I use crop mode UHD Anamorphic 1x3 preset and some setting that you recommended in video mode
the module are mlv_lite, crop_rec, crop_new, dual_iso, ettr and sd_uhs

for first time use without changing the setting is fine then when changing the setting the issue usually comes as I mentioned before, especially change the crop mode setting, even though I've pressed the menu 2x.

You may want to share a video including what are you doing, this make things easier to reproduce the issue.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NRyvbrVhebr3zKLdayeebNtajPmEM4hS/view?usp=sharing

aahh...I just realized the problem is when the global draw is ON.

[theBilalFakhouri]

If Global Draw is ON the preview looks jittery
I use mlv_lite module.
..
I use crop mode UHD Anamorphic 1x3 preset and some setting that you recommended in video mode
the module are mlv_lite, crop_rec, crop_new, dual_iso, ettr and sd_uhs
..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NRyvbrVhebr3zKLdayeebNtajPmEM4hS/view?usp=sharing

aahh...I just realized the problem is when the global draw is ON.

To solve these problems, you need to use Canon preview, highlight "Raw video" --> Press Q button --> Preview --> set it to "real-time"

Now, everything would work as expected

[ML700D]

To solve these problems, you need to use Canon preview, highlight "Raw video" --> Press Q button --> Preview --> set it to "real-time"

Now, everything would work as expected

Nice! thank you..