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Started by Andy600, January 24, 2014, 06:05:11 PM
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Quote from: Andy600 on April 21, 2014, 01:34:34 PM@CF - Thanks for your post You seize on one word but neglect to mention several beneficial reasons for converting raw to Log. Not least of which is storage, archiving and efficiency of workflow.
Quote from: CF on April 21, 2014, 06:32:25 PMApplying a logarithmic curve to an image does NOT, as above implies, convert RAW to Log. The image is STILL RAW, it is just being 'lifted' / 'Compressed' into a diff. gamma space.This is what I mean, all this false word-mangling - to confuse a subject which at this present moment is about THE most confused topic on the web... (Next to how to keep a retina display clean)....A REAL great advantage of a LOG Curve is when debayering is done In-Camera.... Before 'Converting' RAW to a Codec or 'Baking in' the linearization curve. When working with RAW files, it is pointless to use any ONE standard linearization curve (Log). It is VERY limiting, in fact. It would be like trying to apply ONE color-correction to each and every other clip. Which any colorist would know would be non-sense.I LOVE working with RAW, as I don't have to work against any LOG Curve previously applied to the image. And I ALWAYS start with the linear representation of the image. Then I'll apply gamma to that. And to imply that applying an Rec709 workspace-LUT to a RAW-image will make it look like 'This and That' and adhere to this or that standard, is simply put; Wrong. After 'Putting' something into another 'Space' does NOT imply NOT having to further apply gamma, gain, offset etc. to that particular image... Gamma IS a logarithmic curve or function if you will...When shooting RAW - the Canon Camera does NOT apply ANY Linearization Curve to the image. Hence RAW.... When shooting H.264 is DOES apply a curve to the image. And in THIS case of in-cam-debayering, the LOG Curve becomes important... CineStyle was a GREAT example of that. Technicolor KNOW what they are doing. But it would be UTTERLY non-sense to shoot RAW and then i.e. in Lightroom apply the Cinestyle LOG Space to the RAW-image. When shooting RAW, you HAVE to realize that you have the FULL DNA of the date, RIGHT THERE in your hands with all its might at your disposal. Simply loading a LUT with a generic LOG-Curve and apply that to each image, would be limiting yourself in EVERY regard.Understanding RAW and how to develop it, is paramount for anyone shooting it. RAW is wonderful and just as wonderfully misunderstood and therefor, easy to make money off of.Anyone, NOT 100% sure of what RAW is and how to handle it, should spend their good money on a good tutorial or book, rather than a LUT ;-)
Quote from: Andy600 on April 21, 2014, 05:48:56 PM@reddeercity - not sure who you are disagreeing with but an underexposed image, converted to log without first adjusting exposure when it's still raw, will still be under exposed after conversion and the image will exhibit more noise as a consequence of adding offset/gain. Correct exposure is of course fundamental to achieving the best SNR and usable dynamic range. Log is not a fix for underexposure.
Quote from: CF on April 21, 2014, 06:46:31 PMRAW is like negatives... You need a good developing-Lab to get good results.
Quote from: DavidSh on April 21, 2014, 06:44:02 PMDear CF,Thank you for your very detailed explanation,As one who do not know about raw as you...Why is there log space tab in speedgrade let say, containing rec709 and arri alexa and red etc' if log space is not needed?
Quote from: tjaja on April 21, 2014, 08:05:15 PMDiscussion breaker. Case closed. I like colors. Do you? Wait, what?
Quote from: CF on April 21, 2014, 07:40:58 PMI personally love Speedgrade and the way it handles RAW. It serves me the images as Linear as they are. All green, very ugly and extremely unusable, initially. However, I can do ANYTHING to them that I want - a developers dream. And I don't need to work against any Lightroom, Da Vinci Resolve Linearization Curves. It is easier to apply to a linear RAW, the amount of Gamma or whatever one needs than to try and take it off those auto-pilot algorithms. Resolve to me is like Lightroom - Automatic as H*** and I don't like that. SG (I am NOT working for adobe) is IMO the most fantastic software I have ever used. Weird and ugly interface, almost no documentation but with a POWER and potential that no other app has ;-)So if anyone wants to learn, get a premature heart attack, get unprecedented development possibilities and have fun all at the same time, try Speedgrade ;-)
Quote from: DavidSh on April 21, 2014, 08:23:27 PM:-)Thank you for that...why is that ugly green? and what is the best way to get rid off? (when i use direct link from premiere its not there...)
Quote from: CF on April 21, 2014, 08:39:46 PMNo clue about the green. My best bet is that SG is not reading the metadata of the RAW cDNG. In PPRO the the image is Magenta and has a 2.2 Gamma curve applied to it as well, to make things even more complicated. Green and Magenta is basically the same, or should I say opposite thing ;-)I've been beta testing a SG Plug-In dealing with this. If and when it's up for public release, I don't know !
Quote from: Andy600 on April 21, 2014, 08:56:36 PMMaybe something to do with BayerGreenSplit or lack off in the DNG tag?
Quote from: iaremrsir on April 21, 2014, 09:09:59 PMNo, SG just doesn't read the matrix even if the tags are there. It requires you to input it or the raw white balance values.
Quote from: DavidSh on April 21, 2014, 09:30:49 PMSo why it does not do that when you open it using direct link from premiere?
Quote from: iaremrsir on April 21, 2014, 09:53:17 PMBecause Direct Link uses Premiere's debayer settings for all file formats. That's why the SpeedGrade app as a copy of all of the Premiere Pro importer plugins and effects.
Quote from: reddeercity on April 22, 2014, 12:02:34 AMRead this, it will fix that green cast in SG. (Need to load a .look file with values for the colormatrix ) Its because the black level has been change for Cdng in Premiere Pro without any pink cast at 16bit Cdng http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg111704#msg111704
Quote from: kardolan on April 26, 2014, 10:10:16 PMJust converted my RAW footage via the ACR -> Cinelog -> DxHD 444 process and it looks like it's a killer combo The only thing that is a bit annoying is the time for processing and exporting that is way slower than the Resolve.Come back to post some graded results to you guys as soon as I've finished the editing and my current job
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