Author Topic: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage  (Read 514032 times)

dubzeebass

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #75 on: March 20, 2014, 09:00:33 PM »
All good! I got it working, thanks for the explanation of the Rec. 709 LUT. Respect !

50Deezil

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #76 on: March 21, 2014, 06:27:36 AM »
This Cinelog development is so exciting for me.  I've been hoping for something to help me get the best out of my footage from my 50D.  Spring and Summer is coming and a ton of work with it.  Can't wait to get a comfortable workflow going.  What i've seen so far looks outstanding and I can only imagine how much better things will get.  Keep up the good work.

MillTech

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2014, 05:48:50 PM »
Any update on those Resolve LUT's?

dubzeebass

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2014, 07:55:12 PM »
Any update on those Resolve LUT's?

+1.

arturochu

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Chu

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #80 on: April 02, 2014, 09:56:35 PM »
Yes, I apologize for the delay but we had to explore a multitude of possible Resolve workflows to find the most effective method and then develop LUTs to produce results consistent with the ACR version. It was quite a task, even when using Lightspace CMS and we ended up having to basically reverse-engineer Resolve's inaccessible BMD Film profile to be sure Cinelog's exact curve, gamma, offsets and levels were being applied accurately (yes, we did also try several methods using Resolve's Rec.709 raw profile + input LUTs, custom 1D/3D shaper LUTs, ACES, ACES Log etc etc but the best results were using BMD Film gamma).  We also wanted to offer users a way to convert from one colorspace to another and back in the simplest way and this forms the basis of being able to replicate any profile in the future.
Anyway, I still need to finalize and proof the instruction guide but the Cinelog Resolve LUTs are finished and current Cinelog customers will receive a complimentary copy shortly. Using the Cinelog Resolve LUTs is simple and the results are great but there is a specific workflow (that I'm currently documenting)  that needs to be followed. I still think ACR has the edge in debayering but it's very close now and Resolve trounces ACR for render time. 

eta: working on it now so it will go out as soon as the guide is finished.   
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

Room101

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2014, 02:16:43 AM »
As a cinelog customer I'm eager for this to be ready, resolve really does render fast!

MillTech

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #82 on: April 03, 2014, 08:01:01 AM »
Great news, thanks Andy!

kgv5

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #83 on: April 03, 2014, 10:06:33 AM »
Yeah, that is what Ive been waiting for !! I switched to resolve almost completely and ACR with cinelog were useless for me from some time. That is great news, waiting for Resolve version :)
ACR better debayering - maybe, but with resolve great raw sharpening tool its overall picture quality looks better (and much sharper) to my eye. And its a hell a lot faster to work with.
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50Deezil

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2014, 04:53:19 AM »
Thanks Andy600.  Since I can go either with Resolve or ACR, I would really appreciate if you could do a test of a file using both methods to show the difference.  If it's not that much better maybe the Resolve method will be worth it in the end for convenience sake. 

To be honest I'm still a bit unsure of the best workflow so I look forward to any tutorials about the subject.  I've been intrigued by software like RAW4Pro and conversion to Cineform as part of my workflow, but again it's hard to know what is going to produce the best image quality with the fastest flow and smallest file sizes.

I assume that starting with MVL2DNG would be step one?  After that I'm lost.  Yes i'm a NOOB.

dia3olik

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #85 on: April 06, 2014, 05:19:27 PM »
Andy,
I bought the package... ;)
when you issue an updated package to new buyers you will email all the old buyers for the updates, right?
That would be totally awesome!
Thanks!
Tommaso

nazcaman2

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2014, 12:42:18 PM »
Hi! When will the V2.0 "look" LUTs for for the LUT Utility FCPX plugin become available?

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2014, 02:40:25 PM »
@50Deezil - Video Tuts are coming. I haven't made any screen captured tuts before so I need to set up everything to do it. That's my next job after the release of the Resolve version.

re: MLV - I would recommend mlv especially because of the metadata issues with .raw for Adobe workflows. Current Cinelog customers will get the Resolve version free so you have the option of either workflow.

@dia3olik - Yes, check your email for something nice tomorrow ;)

@nazcaman2 - Hopefully tomorrow but certainly this week.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

50Deezil

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #88 on: April 08, 2014, 04:34:41 AM »
@50Deezil - Video Tuts are coming. I haven't made any screen captured tuts before so I need to set up everything to do it. That's my next job after the release of the Resolve version.

re: MLV - I would recommend mlv especially because of the metadata issues with .raw for Adobe workflows. Current Cinelog customers will get the Resolve version free so you have the option of either workflow.

Thanks Andy600.  I'm even more intrigued by the new Resolve 11 announcement. 

I'm curious if it's OK to convert files to CineformRAW and then do the Cinelog thing in Resolve?

iaremrsir

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #89 on: April 08, 2014, 05:53:57 PM »
Thanks Andy600.  I'm even more intrigued by the new Resolve 11 announcement. 

I'm curious if it's OK to convert files to CineformRAW and then do the Cinelog thing in Resolve?

You'd need to convert from ProTune to linear first, unless they have a ProTune to Cinelog LUT. If you don't mind my asking, why would you convert one log curve to another when their purposes are the same?

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #90 on: April 08, 2014, 10:05:38 PM »
We can certainly provide a Protune to Cinelog LUT if needed but if you are working with (and are happy with the look of) Cineform Raw there is little point converting to another logspace as Cineform raw has a great quality to filesize ratio and can benefit from future enhancements to debayering and tone curves. The drawback is that it costs more as the Cineform raw codec is not available in the free version.

Converting from one logspace to another is fairly common in YRGB mixed camera workflows and ACES workflows where a cameras IDT is not available. Not all log profiles are the same. They are typically based on Kodak's Cineon Logarithmic conversion but can differ significantly in power. Cinelog for instance, has a slight linear lift at the base of the curve to reduce the affects of sensor noise and is optimized for the dynamic range of the camera. The curve looks significantly different to Protune, as Protune looks significantly different to S-Log, Log-C etc but they all effectively do the same thing.

One of the reasons it took us a while to configure a good solution for DaVinci Resolve was that we had to linearize the mystical BMD Film curve before we could apply Cinelog [1D] and Cinelog Color [3D] in a single LUT. The exact specs of the BMD film curve are not publicly available so we had to shoot a lot of raw test images to discover it's characteristics. Doing this correctly is not straight forward, even when using Lightspace CMS but we can now effectively convert Cinelog (and BMD Film) to any other log format or gamma. We're including a BMD Film to Cinelog to ARRI Log-C LUT in the new release to demonstrate and with the new features coming in Resolve 11 it will be simple (in theory) to match any camera's primaries. I can see Magic Lantern Raw Video benefiting the most from this feature but there is no specific MLV format support mentioned in the release so we are still stuck with a base profile intended for use with BMD Cameras. But - Resolve 11 will be a game changer IMHO :)


This is what the BMD Film to Cinelog Color 2.0 to ARRI Log-C (Sup 3.x ext) LUT looks like:

3D LUT view



1D LUT view



Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

rainless

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #91 on: April 08, 2014, 10:44:43 PM »
It's a shame you guys don't take Paypal.
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Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #92 on: April 08, 2014, 10:53:31 PM »
It's a shame you guys don't take Paypal.

I'll PM you ;)
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

arturochu

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #93 on: April 09, 2014, 06:30:24 AM »
We can certainly provide a Protune to Cinelog LUT if needed but if you are working with (and are happy with the look of) Cineform Raw there is little point converting to another logspace as Cineform raw has a great quality to filesize ratio and can benefit from future enhancements to debayering and tone curves. The drawback is that it costs more as the Cineform raw codec is not available in the free version.

Converting from one logspace to another is fairly common in YRGB mixed camera workflows and ACES workflows where a cameras IDT is not available. Not all log profiles are the same. They are typically based on Kodak's Cineon Logarithmic conversion but can differ significantly in power. Cinelog for instance, has a slight linear lift at the base of the curve to reduce the affects of sensor noise and is optimized for the dynamic range of the camera. The curve looks significantly different to Protune, as Protune looks significantly different to S-Log, Log-C etc but they all effectively do the same thing.

One of the reasons it took us a while to configure a good solution for DaVinci Resolve was that we had to linearize the mystical BMD Film curve before we could apply Cinelog [1D] and Cinelog Color [3D] in a single LUT. The exact specs of the BMD film curve are not publicly available so we had to shoot a lot of raw test images to discover it's characteristics. Doing this correctly is not straight forward, even when using Lightspace CMS but we can now effectively convert Cinelog (and BMD Film) to any other log format or gamma. We're including a BMD Film to Cinelog to ARRI Log-C LUT in the new release to demonstrate and with the new features coming in Resolve 11 it will be simple (in theory) to match any camera's primaries. I can see Magic Lantern Raw Video benefiting the most from this feature but there is no specific MLV format support mentioned in the release so we are still stuck with a base profile intended for use with BMD Cameras. But - Resolve 11 will be a game changer IMHO :)


This is what the BMD Film to Cinelog Color 2.0 to ARRI Log-C (Sup 3.x ext) LUT looks like:

3D LUT view



1D LUT view




Nice! So when will it be out in the wild?
Chu

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #94 on: April 09, 2014, 06:34:33 AM »
:)

Just sent out pre-release copies to our current customers. They will be available to purchase within the next 24hrs as we need to update the website first.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

arturochu

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #95 on: April 09, 2014, 06:48:40 AM »
:)

Just sent out pre-release copies to our current customers. They will be available to purchase within the next 24hrs as we need to update the website first.

Nice, ill be first in line after you update your website.
Chu

bennyray1

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #96 on: April 09, 2014, 03:30:24 PM »
Thank you Andy, I received the email and can not wait to test...thank you for all your hard work sir.

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #97 on: April 10, 2014, 09:11:24 PM »
We just released our Cinelog for DaVinci Resolve LUTs and for the next 24hrs (20.00/8PM GMT) we will include a FREE copy (sent manually via separate email) with any new purchase of a CinelogDCP for ACR. Current customers should already have received an email from us. After this they will revert to separate products and a discounted bundle.

http://www.cinelogdcp.com/cinelog-luts-for-resolve/
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

arturochu

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #98 on: April 11, 2014, 06:32:46 AM »
We just released our Cinelog for DaVinci Resolve LUTs and for the next 24hrs (20.00/8PM GMT) we will include a FREE copy (sent manually via separate email) with any new purchase of a CinelogDCP for ACR. Current customers should already have received an email from us. After this they will revert to separate products and a discounted bundle.

http://www.cinelogdcp.com/cinelog-luts-for-resolve/

hey andy i just bought a davinci cinelog package instead of the acr version and get the davinci version for free; is it possible that you can give me the acr version for free since i bought it in this 24 hrs period? the mail i used to buy it is: arturochu@gmail.com

i really dont use acr for raw video, but it would be nice to have it for the timelapses i process through acr.

cheers.
Chu

kontrakatze

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #99 on: April 11, 2014, 07:44:03 AM »
I just tried it on a tight project. From shooting to delivery I had just 48h for a 3min trailer in RAW. In the beginning, I took a two way workflow, as the logs are new and I didn't want to risk anything. But after seeing the first results, I did the rest with your cinelog files only, getting more confident clip by clip.

You did a realy great job!