600D GOP and Slice control FAQ + settings, for beginners.

Started by jgharding, July 04, 2013, 06:19:57 PM

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Critical Point

Before, I used to shoot with cinestyle, with 0 in camera sharpening, then, in Adobe After Effects, I had to use the unsharp mask effect, but with values like 1-250 to get good enough sharpening, and it was pretty noisy on the footage afterwards, but I had a solution to that by using the H.264 encoder, it gets rid of most of the noise, but still, it was a less than satisfactory result in terms on noise. After shooting with +1 in camera sharpening, in After Effects I was required to use only values like 0.5-100 to get the same sharpening that I got before, but with way less noise, like -90%. So it's definitely the way to go.

You can still use 0 in camera sharpening on scenes that don't need to be too sharp, but use +1 if you are not sure.

CBR 3x, 0 in camera sharpening, AE unsharp mask (1-250), f/5.6:


CBR 3x, +1 in camera sharpening, AE unsharp mask (0.5-100), f/5.6:


They look the same, but the first one, had way more noise before being exported with AE and encoded again with H.264, as a result of the high values of the unsharpen mask.

And another tip, if you want to get rid of all the aliasing from the image, shoot it with f/10-22. I know that every lens has it's most sharp f number, for some is f4, for others is f5.6, 6.4, but above a certain f number, the aliasing and moire start to go away. At f/10 it starts do go away, at f/16 it really starts to go away, and at f/22 it's almost all gone.

CBR 1.5x, 0 in camera sharpening, AE unsharp mask (1-250), f/22 <--- way less aliasing compared to f/5.6:


ps: these videos were NOT made with tragic lantern with the advanced H.264 controls.
600D & GH2 / PC.

kingbones

I Don't See Any Of These Settings In My ML...... Slice Control.... Gop 1....... Etc.... How Do I Get Them???? Which Build?????

.......... I Got It.... Never Mind.... Feeling Noobish!!! :/


ilguercio

Canon EOS 6D, 60D, 50D.
Sigma 70-200 EX OS HSM, Sigma 70-200 Apo EX HSM, Samyang 14 2.8, Samyang 35 1.4, Samyang 85 1.4.
Proud supporter of Magic Lantern.

deletedAcc.0021

Will this be available again in the newer releases?  Tragic 2.0?

AriLG

Quote from: dslrrookie on July 13, 2013, 05:09:14 AM
Will this be available again in the newer releases?  Tragic 2.0?
Yes.

Can we tell you when ?

No.

:)
T3i (main), T2i
------------------
It's not about accuracy,  it's about Aesthetics

AriLG

T3i (main), T2i
------------------
It's not about accuracy,  it's about Aesthetics

deletedAcc.0021

Quote from: AriLG on July 15, 2013, 09:01:39 PM
Have anyone reached more then 160Mbps average ?

Thats about what I'm getting 140 - 160 average with jghardings recommended settings on a 45 MB/s card.  My 30 MB/s cards won't keep up and stop recording after about 5 seconds.

Asiertxu

Hi there!
I´m new here but I´ve been searching info about H264 recording in canon cameras, it´s structure, GOP lenght, Level of the profile etc..
Then I found this fantastic thread!!  8).
I read you are talking about eos 600D and 60D only (correct me if I´m wrong...) but I was  thinking about the eos 50d wich is that I have!
I´ve been trying H264 recording but I missed some parameters like GOP lenght wich is very important for the final quality.
Are these settings available for the 50d implemented H264 module?
Another thing I´ve noticed in my 50d h264 recorded clips, is that they seem to be L5.0 Main profile, not Baseline
as I read in other articles arround the net!
What´s is the "main" diference between the two versions?
Thanks in advance fellows!
Cheers...
Asier.   

Critical Point

I have used those settings that are in the first post of this topic, with ISO 80 and Slice 87, but I get bitrates from 86 to 96 mbs averege, is that normal ? I thought the settings will produce a minimum of 140 mbs, what am I missing ? My card is a Sandisk 45 MB/s formatted in exFat.
600D & GH2 / PC.

Yuppa

@Asiertxu

Pretty sure you can search for this, here, lemme do it:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6888.msg59957#msg59957


@Critical Point

My understanding, reading ~100 posts for every question I ask (or searching for the answer), is that mb/s is ISO dependent.  To get mb/s THAT high, you need to up your ISO.  And ExFat does NOT affect write speed: that just gets you past the 4GB limit.
When you care more about capturing DATA, as opposed to WONDERMENT, you've lost your creative SOUL.

Critical Point

I wonder how is better, to use ISO 80 and ~90-100 mbs, or something like ISO 400 and ~120-140 mbs ?
600D & GH2 / PC.

AriLG

It depends on scene complexity.

Static scene (ie. with no movement AT ALL. not the camera nor moving objects) will not produce high bit rate. on the contrary (the minimum for that setting). shoot a static noise video (like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH0BQtwEAsM - download it at 1080p) to simulate a maximum movement achievable.... and watch the bitrate go sky high... it may even average at 175Mb/s  ;)
T3i (main), T2i
------------------
It's not about accuracy,  it's about Aesthetics

Critical Point

Today I was filming from a moving car with the setting from the first post, I never got higher bitrates than 104 mbs, but I was filming at ISO 80. The lowest averege bitrate was 78 and the highest was 104 mbs, in different clips of course.
600D & GH2 / PC.

Asiertxu

Thanks ALOT Yuppa for your help!!  :)
I´ll try that link you provided me and see what I get! ;)
Cheers fellow!
Asier.

Rush

Quote from: jgharding on July 07, 2013, 02:39:20 PM
Yes you can do audio, in that it does function at 25p but If you turn it on with these settings the buffer fills straight away, so I leave it off ;)
Check this:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=1565.msg28974#msg28974
stable 160 mbps video in 25p with audio recording (higher than 165 mbps is not possible because of SD controller limit ~21mBps)
Greetings from Russia!

daSilva

Quote from: Rush on July 19, 2013, 12:04:42 AM
Check this:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=1565.msg28974#msg28974
stable 160 mbps video in 25p with audio recording (higher than 165 mbps is not possible because of SD controller limit ~21mBps)

THX for the Info!
What Version do you use? TragicLantern1  or  Nightly?

AriLG

Quote from: Rush on July 19, 2013, 12:04:42 AM(higher than 165 mbps is not possible because of SD controller limit ~21mBps)
Actually it's 21.875 (175Mbps)  :)
T3i (main), T2i
------------------
It's not about accuracy,  it's about Aesthetics

jgharding

Cool! If I can repeat that ill change the post, is there a full settings list for up to 160 with audio?
Zeiss primes, 600D, a lot of shadow. http://www.jgharding.com

Rush

QuoteWhat Version do you use? TragicLantern1  or  Nightly?
It is TL v1. It is sad, but TL v2 disables sound recording automatically, if GOP or flush rate is changed.

Quote from: jgharding on July 19, 2013, 09:17:53 AM
Cool! If I can repeat that ill change the post, is there a full settings list for up to 160 with audio?
TL v1, CBR 3.0x, 25p PAL mode (strange, but 24p and 30p don't work with audio), GOP not higher than 4 (i prefer GOP4), fast card like SanDisk 95mb/s.
There is no flush rate hacks in TL v1, but flush rate can be very useful - it will make possible to use GOP higher than 4 (default GOP12 for example, that is more effective than low GOP).

QuoteActually it's 21.875 (175Mbps)  :)
May be... but I see that my buffer start to filling up if bitrate reaches 170 mbps. It can peak at 170-180 mbps, but if it will be sustained for some seconds - it will overflow buffer (Card R/W tests don't go higher than 21.5 mbps for me with SanDisk 95 mb/s)
Greetings from Russia!

jgharding

Ah I suppose lengthening GOP balances between buffer use and card writing. I do like I-frame though, but I suppose GOP 3 is a good compromise...
Zeiss primes, 600D, a lot of shadow. http://www.jgharding.com

daSilva

Quote from: Rush on July 19, 2013, 10:05:58 AM
It is TL v1. It is sad, but TL v2 disables sound recording automatically, if GOP or flush rate is changed.
TL v1, CBR 3.0x, 25p PAL mode (strange, but 24p and 30p don't work with audio), GOP not higher than 4 (i prefer GOP4), fast card like SanDisk 95mb/s.

And what Settings do you suggest in the "Slice CBR" Menu?

NedB

1% or anyone similarly knowledgeable: Is there a build with this functionality available yet for the 550D? If so, could you point to a link. I read the entire thread, but there are only little hints that it might be found somewhere. In any case, thanks for answering! Cheers!
550D - Kit Lens | EF 50mm f/1.8 | Zacuto Z-Finder Pro 2.5x | SanDisk ExtremePro 95mb/s | Tascam DR-100MkII

Rush

Quote from: daSilva on July 19, 2013, 07:35:56 PM
And what Settings do you suggest in the "Slice CBR" Menu?
I had provided settings for CBR mode. I don't use Slice mode, so there is no any changes (slice control should be turned off. set slice to 0)
Greetings from Russia!

Luzestudio

Tomorrow my new fast card is arriving, so I will be able to start using high bitrates.

I think I'll prefer audio in the recordings so I think the Rush version will be the one I'll try.
If I'm not wrong I need TL 1 and set the recording at 25 fps, is that ok?

@jgharding, did you have time to test this new configuration? Does it look as good as yours or there is a compromise for getting audio?

Thanks!
-----
www.luzestudio.es