Author Topic: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!  (Read 1046128 times)

Bioskop.Inc

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #400 on: June 08, 2013, 08:54:56 PM »
Ok, so i've just reached the point where i've got a file that's bigger than 4gb (16:9 960x540 = 8156 frames) & its given me a regular .RAW file & .R00 files - can't open either of them, can't preview in camera either.

What the BJesus do i do?

Sorry, i'm a bit confused, you say to install the latest nightly build before doing anything else and on the nightly builds forum it says not for Raw, I have  v2.3 on my 60D and am wondering if somebody clear this up for me. I'm probably missing something really simple, but I want to make sure I do it right, oh and thank you for making such an amazing feature.

I've always put the newest NB over the v2.3, as it deletes the help menus which are useless on these builds. Then you just replace the autoexec.bin & put the other files into a folder named MODULES & put that in the ML folder on your SD card.
I like testing out the NB anyways, so its just the next step.
Try it without loading up a NB, just replace autoexec.bin etc...over the v2.3 - don't se why it shouldn't work.

Jack

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #401 on: June 08, 2013, 09:35:04 PM »
Ok, so i've just reached the point where i've got a file that's bigger than 4gb (16:9 960x540 = 8156 frames) & its given me a regular .RAW file & .R00 files - can't open either of them, can't preview in camera either.

What the BJesus do i do?

I've always put the newest NB over the v2.3, as it deletes the help menus which are useless on these builds. Then you just replace the autoexec.bin & put the other files into a folder named MODULES & put that in the ML folder on your SD card.
I like testing out the NB anyways, so its just the next step.
Try it without loading up a NB, just replace autoexec.bin etc...over the v2.3 - don't se why it shouldn't work.

Many thanks for the quick reply, just installed it and it is fine so far apart from it saying scripts dir missing when I turn it on, will let you know how I get on, thanks!

Jack

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #402 on: June 09, 2013, 12:06:48 AM »
To solve the 'script dir missing' problem I put the scripts folder in the ML folder, I feel I did something wrong because when I imported the dng sequence into AE, I saw increased latitude in the highlights but the shadows I couldn't do anything with or it came out noisy (edit: This wasn't to do with shadow clipping, they were very slightly underexposed and any slight recovery would bring up terrible noise), will try again by installing the NB. To install do I simply replace the autoexec, add modules and scripts into the ML folder and choose the regular install new firmware option?

xenocide38

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #403 on: June 09, 2013, 12:56:54 AM »
To solve the 'script dir missing' problem I put the scripts folder in the ML folder, I feel I did something wrong because when I imported the dng sequence into AE, I saw increased latitude in the highlights but the shadows I couldn't do anything with or it came out noisy (edit: This wasn't to do with shadow clipping, they were very slightly underexposed and any slight recovery would bring up terrible noise), will try again by installing the NB. To install do I simply replace the autoexec, add modules and scripts into the ML folder and choose the regular install new firmware option?

Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the consensus online is to slightly overexpose your image so you don't have to lift your blacks in post. I know exactly what you're talking about. Typically for raw photos I'd get an ideal exposure, lift my blacks and lower my highlights in post but the 60D raw footage works better by shooting a little overexposed (ETTR-expose to the right). There is definitely the ability to recover highlights but lifting shadows in the raw 60D footage is very dangerous, tons of noise.

CarVac

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #404 on: June 09, 2013, 01:00:25 AM »
Is the Magic Lantern grayscale viewing not working for anyone else? It just displays the normal Canon video mode live view for me. This is with the June 4 build from the first post.

101001

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #405 on: June 09, 2013, 01:09:38 AM »
An avid and grateful lurkers Question.... In what way or how do youse imagine the the 20mbs SD card speed can be overcome. Can it? Is it bypassable? Any hypothesis'

Jack

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #406 on: June 09, 2013, 01:57:03 AM »
Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the consensus online is to slightly overexpose your image so you don't have to lift your blacks in post. I know exactly what you're talking about. Typically for raw photos I'd get an ideal exposure, lift my blacks and lower my highlights in post but the 60D raw footage works better by shooting a little overexposed (ETTR-expose to the right). There is definitely the ability to recover highlights but lifting shadows in the raw 60D footage is very dangerous, tons of noise.

I know what you mean, did another quick test and the noise is really bad even without trying to recover any of the shadow detail.

This was shot at 1280, 2.35.1 at 160 ISO, 1.4 f stop and I haven't done anything to the image, was just wondering if this is normal.


Bioskop.Inc

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #407 on: June 09, 2013, 02:24:15 AM »
First of all, forget the multiples of 160 & use Canon native ISOs (100, 200 etc...), but don't go over 1600. I find 800 to be the best option.
For an explanation of ETTR look at the first post on this thread (you don't have to read everything, but you'll get the gist):
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5693.0

Basically, you need to use the RAW Histogram/Raw Zebras & get it so the reading is E0.0 or slightly minus eg. E -0.1 (yes you need to get it so its nearly blowing the highlights - it will look too bright, but you'll be able to recover the highlights in post). What this will do is reduce the noise & you'll gain detail.

Here's a check list of things that we've found out recently when you use RAW on the 60D:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5653.325

Oh & we will never be able to overcome the 20MB/s SD card speed - its hardwired in & we're stuck with it.

Use the newest build! And just replace the Autoexec.bin on SD card & create a folder called MODULES & put magic.sym, raw_rec.mo, pic_view.mo & file_man.mo into it & then just copy it into the ML folder on your SD card (don't delete anything - a Scripts folder should already be in the ML folder).

There's plenty of stuff/advice etc.. in this thread & it might be worth looking at the 600D/550D threads for any advances & yes ours cam is slightly better.

Jack

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #408 on: June 09, 2013, 02:40:56 AM »

I did read all of this thread but the amount of noise still surprised me, now I know i'm on the right track so thanks very helpful  :)

Bioskop.Inc

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #409 on: June 09, 2013, 02:51:15 AM »
Yes there will be some noise, but you really need to push that overexposure - its scary at first, but once you understand it your footage will look a lot nicer.
Also the highest quality crop sizes produce the least amount of frames (118-129) so experiment with either 960x540 (about 8000 frames) or 1152x648 (about 500 frames) or just above. Don't kid yourself 5mins/25sec is much better than 5secs. And you can get 960x540 footage to look good - well a lot better than H264!
It takes time - i've been at it a few weeks now.

Remember this is in the Alpha testing stage!
ML might still try & get 10bit RAW or something else for our cameras, but there's a way to go yet!

60d

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #410 on: June 09, 2013, 03:12:27 AM »
Just wanted to report that having now actually turned on fps override (to 25) the crop footage is nearly 'frame shift' free.

kotik

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #411 on: June 09, 2013, 11:54:06 AM »
First of all, forget the multiples of 160 & use Canon native ISOs (100, 200 etc...), but don't go over 1600. I find 800 to be the best option.

There has been said a lot about 'native' ISO's. If you look at page 62 of the Canon Rebel T2i (550D) manual, you'll see the following ISO speeds: Auto, 100, 200, 300, 400, 800, 1600, 3200 and 6400. So it's safe to assume that these are the real native Canon ISO speed settings.
So why all the fuzz about 160, 320, 640, etc. The 160-multiple ISO's are actually the cleanest not because they are 'native', but because they are a result of a digital exposure pull. This pull brings down the exposure of the entire image, and hides much of the noise that would be visible at the next higher ISO. ISO 125 is actually ISO 100 with a 1/3 stop digital exposure push, etc.
The real question is: how does ML handle with these 'tweeners' as ML captures LIveView frames. Are the 'tweeners' still pushed or pulled?
My first Canon: FTb QL (Quick Loading), my first digital Canon: 20D 2.0.3
The current one: Canon EOS R

a1ex

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #412 on: June 09, 2013, 12:01:12 PM »
In raw, 200 is identical to 160, 400 is identical to 320 and so on. Look on the histogram.

kotik

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #413 on: June 09, 2013, 12:28:33 PM »
Thanks a1ex!   ;D
My first Canon: FTb QL (Quick Loading), my first digital Canon: 20D 2.0.3
The current one: Canon EOS R

rocket

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #414 on: June 09, 2013, 12:47:33 PM »
First of all: thanks to marekk for giving us a chance to play with these bleeding edge features!
Develompent seems to go blazing fast here! I had some free time this weekend, so I made up a little build/upload script for ML. It checks for repository commits every hour and uploads compiled zips to dropbox in case there were any changes (and by 'ANY' I mean even if they are not specific for 60D). Contents of these builds are pretty much the same as in marekk's, except for 'modules' folder is already in 'ml' folder (seemed more convinient for me to update).

Remember that this is for testing purposes only! Of course I don't have a chance to check every build myself :)

Here's the link to dropbox folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1kitzbmanifb6sf/qgkHzW3gn2
And, again, commits log: https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/all

marekk

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #415 on: June 09, 2013, 01:20:23 PM »

Bioskop.Inc

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #416 on: June 09, 2013, 01:34:03 PM »
First of all: thanks to marekk for giving us a chance to play with these bleeding edge features!
Develompent seems to go blazing fast here! I had some free time this weekend, so I made up a little build/upload script for ML. It checks for repository commits every hour and uploads compiled zips to dropbox in case there were any changes (and by 'ANY' I mean even if they are not specific for 60D). Contents of these builds are pretty much the same as in marekk's, except for 'modules' folder is already in 'ml' folder (seemed more convinient for me to update).

Remember that this is for testing purposes only! Of course I don't have a chance to check every build myself :)

Here's the link to dropbox folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1kitzbmanifb6sf/qgkHzW3gn2
And, again, commits log: https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/all

Thanks Rocket!!!!!! Things are moving fast & this will allow people to test whatever/whenever.

There has been said a lot about 'native' ISO's. If you look at page 62 of the Canon Rebel T2i (550D) manual, you'll see the following ISO speeds: Auto, 100, 200, 300, 400, 800, 1600, 3200 and 6400. So it's safe to assume that these are the real native Canon ISO speed settings.
So why all the fuzz about 160, 320, 640, etc. The 160-multiple ISO's are actually the cleanest not because they are 'native', but because they are a result of a digital exposure pull. This pull brings down the exposure of the entire image, and hides much of the noise that would be visible at the next higher ISO. ISO 125 is actually ISO 100 with a 1/3 stop digital exposure push, etc.
The real question is: how does ML handle with these 'tweeners' as ML captures LIveView frames. Are the 'tweeners' still pushed or pulled?


I was wondering this too & by chance stumbled across the differences between Native & 160 (vimeo didn't do it justice, but you could see the digital gain at work).
I am guessing that for video the extra digital gain in the 160s will help with the H264 compression/quality etc...
I'm just not so convinced that this is so true for RAW - i don't need any extra gain added to the ISOs, because i can do that myself.

Anyway you just need to test for yourself & find out what you like - its "Horses for Courses" in the end.
Its like all the complaints about the quality being "noisy"!
I think people were quite spoiled with H264 & it kinda hid a lot of bad footage in its compression.
What really makes me laugh is all the people that want to recapture the"Film Look" & have never actually shot on film - Grain is Noise! Lots of people i know actually like the noise coming from the sensor in Raw, especially when using ETTR.

It all comes down to what you personally like.
Still got to remember these are DSLRs & not a RED or Alexa.

sarotaz

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #417 on: June 09, 2013, 02:23:39 PM »
hey guys i've tried to install update 8 but it forces my camera to rec to 10.1 mb/s instead 20/21 mb/s (with update 6 without lv_af_raw).
This issue reduce frame recorded (same resolution 960x540) from 8000+ to 530.  :-\

cthornhill

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #418 on: June 10, 2013, 06:13:19 AM »
Many thanks to the dev tea for the code. Just got a chance to try recording some raw clips today. I used the post #8 code and found the following:
1. modules auto load fine, but raw settings don't save at shutoff9are not persistent)
2. raw video shows up twice in the menus (don't know why, but I use the first instance)
3. at 960 (16:9) I never run out of buffer - did not try to get over 1GB as I was just trying to get a clip to try workflow
4. at 1280 (16:9) I got about 320-345 frames, with automagic shut off
5. I did not get any clips that did not have pink  blocks or other ugly artifacts pink in some  frames (not all, but many)...yes I did have global draw on...maybe I should not...
6. Post processing per Nick Driftwoods process steps worked fine (all clips read and process just fine to make dng files and go into to AE).
7. I used an San Disk Extreme 16GB card (way over 21MBs) capable.
8. I do have a Mosaic filter and did not notice any negative impact using it at crop resolutions, but I will have to test at another location to see if it impacts moire in raw (it fixes moire and aliasing just fine in normal recording on the 60D).

Honestly at this point stability of clean recording is more important to me...I appreciate raw DR, but I can live with resolution limitations as long as the footage is clean and record times are well established...that may not be as critical to others...I really don't need a lot of options - a few fixed sizes that work well are better for me...but maybe not for others.

I used my meter, and histograms for exposure - that was not really an issue, nor was noise (I shot at ISO 100 using deep ND to get to F4 in about 6400 fc). dead pixels and corrupt blocks are the issue to me.

FullSensor

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #419 on: June 10, 2013, 02:31:24 PM »
No more bad pixels since the latest raw2dng update. Nice work a1ex !  8)

And there seems to be no more corrupted frames with pink blocks using the last night ML's build so far. (Global Draw Off of course)

Oh and thank you rocket, very useful script.

bhursey

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #420 on: June 10, 2013, 03:29:04 PM »
This past weekend we went out for a photo walk in Athens GA in addition to my film camera I used for stills I brought along my 60D loaded down with ML raw video.. It is still a work in progress and about 1/3 done.  However it was shot at 1280x544 at 23.976fps..  I think this works well.  Of course watch in hd.


NickRamey

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #421 on: June 10, 2013, 04:58:36 PM »
MY 60D SAYS IT CANNOT FIND THE AUTOEX. BIN???? WHATS WRONG?

D1rtMcGirt

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #422 on: June 10, 2013, 06:34:06 PM »
Does anybody else have problems with the .wav files while recording raw? Because i don't get them at all...
I have the 8-6-13 build.

Bioskop.Inc

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #423 on: June 10, 2013, 06:42:50 PM »
MY 60D SAYS IT CANNOT FIND THE AUTOEX. BIN???? WHATS WRONG?

Have you installed ML? If so just download the latest build from here (the one on the bottom) - its an automatic build & has an autoexec.bin & a modules folder with all the right stuff:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1kitzbmanifb6sf/qgkHzW3gn2

Replace the autoexec.bin on the route of your SD card & then put the Modules folder into the ML folder.

Does anybody else have problems with the .wav files while recording raw? Because i don't get them at all...
I have the 8-6-13 build.

No sound!

D1rtMcGirt

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Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #424 on: June 10, 2013, 06:50:20 PM »
No sound!

And with that you mean it's broken still on the 60D?  ???