60D RAW video - it's working !!!

[Bioskop.Inc]

The link you gave was about ETTR and has nothing to do with the corruption (pink burst). And besides ETTR is not yet implemented on 60D. What's the point bud?

I never said it did solve the tearing of files & we already discovered that you need to turn everything off whilst recording - so you really need to read through the threads properly (I know its a pain to do that, but it will be helpful).
Unfortunately, you will still get a few magenta frames from time to time & it does look as if using Canon's native ISO values (100,200 etc...) will help with this problem & they also produce less sensor noise.

And yes, ETTR is implemented on the 60D (use the Raw Histogram for video) & will help make your footage @ 960x544 a lot cleaner. It also means you can use higher ISO values - there will still be some noise, but not nearly as much.

Here are some extra things:
1. There are 2 different types of 60D, so some will get more frames than others (no one knows why or has investigated further).
2. The max write speed to SD cards is 21MB/s - so getting an expensive fast SD card might be a waste of money (45MB/s cards have produced the best results for me so far).
3. Do try & follow the ETTR (expose to the right) principle, you'll get less noise & be able to recover more detail.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5693.0
4. Turn Global Draw off when recording.
5. Use Canon Native ISOs (100,200,300 etc...) - much better for noise.
6. Remember to use FPS Override (it has loads of new frame rates now) - especially important when using x5 crop.
7. Experiment with changing Picture quality in Canon Menu (Jpeg quality S2 was working best, this might have changed so do try/compare to SRaw).
8. Try 1080p & 720p modes in Canon menu (you'll get more frames in 720p, but quality might not be as great - i think you can improve this in 720p mode by using x5 crop).
9. Do extensive testing to find what works for you!
10. And be careful about using this for paid work!!!!!

Transcoding into CinemaDNG:
Mac users should follow this thread:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6218.0

Wins users:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5618.0 

[PKVariance]

Thanks for collecting that all in one post. Very helpful checklist. And good advices too!

[kotik]

.........
1. There are 2 different types of 60D, so some will get more frames than others (no one knows why or has investigated further).
2. The max write speed to SD cards is 21MB/s - so getting an expensive fast SD card might be a waste of money (45MB/s cards have produced the best results for me so far).
..........

Due to the fact that there two types of 60D's, I'm unable to make an 'automagically' end of a 960xwhatever recording.
Worse, the RAW's can't be processed either!
To be exact, the 60D's build in SD-interface delimits the write speed, not the card. And with 1280x432px (3:1) I'm getting twice as much frames with 95MB/s in contrast to 45MB/s!

All tests @25FPS.
SD-card: Lexar 16GB 60MB/s
1280 x 432 px  3:1         1188 frames

SD-card: SanDisk 32GB 95MB/s
1280 x 432 px  3:1       2317 - 2118 - 2283 - 2079 - 2215 frames

Furthermore in case of a faster card your RAW Gigs will copy faster to your computer!

[Bioskop.Inc]

Due to the fact that there two types of 60D's, I'm unable to make an 'automagically' end of a 960xwhatever recording.
Worse, the RAW's can't be processed either!
To be exact, the 60D's build in SD-interface delimits the write speed, not the card. And with 1280x432px (3:1) I'm getting twice as much frames with 95MB/s in contrast to 45MB/s!

All tests @25FPS.
SD-card: Lexar 16GB 60MB/s
1280 x 432 px  3:1         1188 frames

SD-card: SanDisk 32GB 95MB/s
1280 x 432 px  3:1       2317 - 2118 - 2283 - 2079 - 2215 frames

Furthermore in case of a faster card your RAW Gigs will copy faster to your computer!

Do you mean you can't stop the recording by pressing the record button?
And you can't open the files? Is that something to do with the size of the files?

Good to know about fast SD cards (did say "might") - I wasn't sure if this was the difference between 60Ds or cards.
The fastest i've got runs @ 45MB/s & yes, it did produce much more frames than a normal Transcend class 10.

Just tried the following:
Transcend 16gb Class10

1208x423  3:1 @ 23.976 = 2147 frames
1280x423  3:1 @ 25 = 1553

I've got a feeling the Sandisk SD cards are better & their write speeds haven't much to do with it.
If i do the same test with my 45MB/s Sandisk, I bet i'll get the same results as yours.

So could it be that the 'SD Interfaces' are the differences between some 60D models?
Or is it the type of card you use - might be worth if people post which cards work best?

[kotik]

Do you mean you can't stop the recording by pressing the record button?
And you can't open the files? Is that something to do with the size of the files?

Good to know about fast SD cards (did say "might") - I wasn't sure if this was the difference between 60Ds or cards.
The fastest i've got runs @ 45MB/s & yes, it did produce much more frames than a normal Transcend class 10.

Just tried the following:
Transcend 16gb Class10

1208x423  3:1 @ 23.976 = 2147 frames
1280x423  3:1 @ 25 = 1553

I've got a feeling the Sandisk SD cards are better & their write speeds haven't much to do with it.
If i do the same test with my 45MB/s Sandisk, I bet i'll get the same results as yours.

So could it be that the 'SD Interfaces' are the differences between some 60D models?
Or is it the type of card you use - might be worth if people post which cards work best?

I can stop recording manually before ML/60D crashes at writing frame 1457!
All the file sizes are about 1.2x GB, so not very big.
But larger resolutions like 1280 and higher do 'automagically' stop and the RAW's can be processed.

I don't think the difference is the SD-interface. Canon aimed at H.264( probably High level 4, they never tell you  !) which needs max. 20MB/s troughput.
Why give the 60D a faster, more expansive SD-interface than needed!

Of course I would like to know what the real differences are. Mine 60D was bought november 2011 and should be fast, but is not!
Maybe different electronic hardware like an updated Digic 4 processor gives other 60D's a better performance?

[Bioskop.Inc]

I can stop recording manually before ML/60D crashes at writing frame 1457!
All the file sizes are about 1.2x GB, so not very big.
But larger resolutions like 1280 and higher do 'automagically' stop and the RAW's can be processed.

I don't think the difference is the SD-interface. Canon aimed at H.264( probably High level 4, they never tell you  !) which needs max. 20MB/s troughput.
Why give the 60D a faster, more expansive SD-interface than needed!

Of course I would like to know what the real differences are. Mine 60D was bought november 2011 and should be fast, but is not!
Maybe different electronic hardware like an updated Digic 4 processor gives other 60D's a better performance?

Mine was bought in April 2011, so if anything they downgraded something after that.

So in what conditions can't you process the RAW file/s?

I know that the max crop factor that we can use is 1728x... - if you try to record at higher sizes it won't let you open them.
Also, when you first turn on camera & go to the RAW video menu, you will notice that it says 1728x... as default, but you actually have to go into the menu & select this value (as when you do you'll see that it was set at a higher value but reading/telling you the lower value).
So, when you select a higher value it will still tell you that you're recording at 1728x..., but you can't record at this level & have to ignore what it says & still select the highest value of 1728x... (or a lower value).

[albert-e]

I never said it did solve the tearing of files & we already discovered that you need to turn everything off whilst recording - so you really need to read through the threads properly (I know its a pain to do that, but it will be helpful).
Unfortunately, you will still get a few magenta frames from time to time & it does look as if using Canon's native ISO values (100,200 etc...) will help with this problem & they also produce less sensor noise.

And yes, ETTR is implemented on the 60D (use the Raw Histogram for video) & will help make your footage @ 960x544 a lot cleaner. It also means you can use higher ISO values - there will still be some noise, but not nearly as much.

Here are some extra things:
1. There are 2 different types of 60D, so some will get more frames than others (no one knows why or has investigated further).
2. The max write speed to SD cards is 21MB/s - so getting an expensive fast SD card might be a waste of money (45MB/s cards have produced the best results for me so far).
3. Do try & follow the ETTR (expose to the right) principle, you'll get less noise & be able to recover more detail.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5693.0
4. Turn Global Draw off when recording.
5. Use Canon Native ISOs (100,200,300 etc...) - much better for noise.
6. Remember to use FPS Override (it has loads of new frame rates now) - especially important when using x5 crop.
7. Experiment with changing Picture quality in Canon Menu (Jpeg quality S2 was working best, this might have changed so do try/compare to SRaw).
8. Try 1080p & 720p modes in Canon menu (you'll get more frames in 720p, but quality might not be as great - i think you can improve this in 720p mode by using x5 crop).
9. Do extensive testing to find what works for you!
10. And be careful about using this for paid work!!!!!

Transcoding into CinemaDNG:
Mac users should follow this thread:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6218.0

Wins users:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5618.0

Thanks for clearing it to us. :-)

[OrionnebelGalaxie17]

What is the ETTR exactly? 

[kotik]

........
So in what conditions can't you process the RAW file/s?

I know that the max crop factor that we can use is 1728x... - if you try to record at higher sizes it won't let you open them.
Also, when you first turn on camera & go to the RAW video menu, you will notice that it says 1728x... as default, but you actually have to go into the menu & select this value (as when you do you'll see that it was set at a higher value but reading/telling you the lower value).
So, when you select a higher value it will still tell you that you're recording at 1728x..., but you can't record at this level & have to ignore what it says & still select the highest value of 1728x... (or a lower value).

raw2dng won't recognize the RAW's as a RAW-file (forgot the exact name!) and won't convert them to DNG's.

ML (RAW) is for multiple Canon EOS camera's and I think the 60D doesn't have high priority by the developers.
The focus is probably on the Canon 5D MarkIII, so untill that version is stable they will look at other models (my guess!)
and sort it out. Until then we are living on the edge!   

[kotik]

What is the ETTR exactly? 

ETTR: auto-expose to the right to max. dynamic resolution & minimize noise! Short enough?   

There were some amazing nature-shots handheld taken with a 300mm lens and ETTR in the 5D section, but I can't find them anymore! 

Edit: Found them! 
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6076.msg46130#msg46130

[Bioskop.Inc]

What is the ETTR exactly? 

Follow the link below & read a little - its all about pictures, but the same applies to exposing video. Basically for video you can have a RAW Histogram & basically you overexpose, without completely blowing out the highlights. So when you edit your DNG files you just pull down the exposure & hey presto, not so much noise & better detail.

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5693.0

raw2dng won't recognize the RAW's as a RAW-file (forgot the exact name!) and won't convert them to DNG's.

ML (RAW) is for multiple Canon EOS camera's and I think the 60D doesn't have high priority by the developers.
The focus is probably on the Canon 5D MarkIII, so untill that version is stable they will look at other models (my guess!)
and sort it out. Until then we are living on the edge!   

That's strange about the RAW files - search around on other threads (600D or 550D).

Yes the main development is on 5D3 & also, since the developers have a 600D/550D that is also a focus (i believe our camera is slightly better than the 600D/550D).
So whatever works for them they just implement it for us.

The really annoying thing for us is that we have the best buffer readings of all the cameras!
Yes even better than 5D3!
This is why we can get a few seconds recording at our full resolution - 1728x922 (108 frames).
However, because we have SD cards we can't take advantage of this fully!
If we had a CF card slot we would almost certainly be in 5D3 territory & with a near enough S35mm sensor!

Why when they upgraded the 50D to the 60D did they leave out the CF cards?! Bastards!!!!!!!

[albert-e]

What is the ETTR exactly? 

 E[xposure] T

• T[he] R[ight]. Here's the link:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5705.msg46774;topicseen#msg46774

[kotik]

......
The really annoying thing for us is that we have the best buffer readings of all the cameras!
Yes even better than 5D3!
This is why we can get a few seconds recording at our full resolution - 1728x922 (108 frames).
However, because we have SD cards we can't take advantage of this fully!
If we had a CF card slot we would almost certainly be in 5D3 territory & with a near enough S35mm sensor!

Why when they upgraded the 50D to the 60D did they leave out the CF cards?! Bastards!!!!!!!

When they upgraded the 50D to the 60D they did not only leave out the CF-interface but also changed the quality of the body.
The 50D was build like the 5D, all aluminium chassis. The 60D has a shell that's made of polycarbonate resin strengthened with glass fibre.

But I still love the 60D!      

[xenocide38]

Thanks for reiterating turning Global Draw OFF. I had seen that one other place and tried it and sure enough, it seems to limit the pink corrupt magenta frames. Not sure if it's a 100% fix but it's definitely better than what I was getting with Global Draw ON.

[Bioskop.Inc]

When they upgraded the 50D to the 60D they did not only leave out the CF-interface but also changed the quality of the body.
The 50D was build like the 5D, all aluminium chassis. The 60D has a shell that's made of polycarbonate resin strengthened with glass fibre.

But I still love the 60D!      

Yaeh, but more pissed off about the CF card at this precise point in time.
Love my 60D too!

Thanks for reiterating turning Global Draw OFF. I had seen that one other place and tried it and sure enough, it seems to limit the pink corrupt magenta frames. Not sure if it's a 100% fix but it's definitely better than what I was getting with Global Draw ON.

Also try the Canon Native ISOs (100,200 etc...), it does wonders for reducing sensor noise & might have an effect on the torn/magenta frames. But i'm still getting some every so often.

I'm experimenting with setting the camera to 720p & am getting double the frames @ 1728x992 (250ish frames) - but they seem to be squashed! 

[kotik]

................
If we had a CF card slot we would almost certainly be in 5D3 territory & with a near enough S35mm sensor!
...............

If the 60D would have a CF-interface the buffer wouldn't be that big!

50D  Continuous Shooting mode 6.3 frames per second, 90 JPEG's
60D  Continuous Shooting mode 5.3 frames per second, 58 JPEG's

After Continuous Shooting mode watch how long it takes to write all pictures to the SD-card!
So, in my opinion, Canon made the buffer extra large to make it more or less comparable with the 50D! 

[DerekDock]

Due to the fact that there two types of 60D's, I'm unable to make an 'automagically' end of a 960xwhatever recording.
Worse, the RAW's can't be processed either!
To be exact, the 60D's build in SD-interface delimits the write speed, not the card. And with 1280x432px (3:1) I'm getting twice as much frames with 95MB/s in contrast to 45MB/s!

All tests @25FPS.
SD-card: Lexar 16GB 60MB/s
1280 x 432 px  3:1         1188 frames

SD-card: SanDisk 32GB 95MB/s
1280 x 432 px  3:1       2317 - 2118 - 2283 - 2079 - 2215 frames

Furthermore in case of a faster card your RAW Gigs will copy faster to your computer!

Hmm. I've been holding off opening the 95mbs card I ordered as most people were saying it doesn't make a difference. If it helps at 720p it would be worth it though.

[kotik]

Hmm. I've been holding off opening the 95mbs card I ordered as most people were saying it doesn't make a difference. If it helps at 720p it would be worth it though.

Maybe the resolution you want to use doesn't give a big difference.
Look at the whole list I made:

All tests @25FPS.

SD-card: Lexar 16GB 60MB/s
1280 x 720 px 16:9       275 frames
1280 x 704 px 1.85:1    295 frames
1280 x 640 px  2:1      346 frames
1280 x 592 px  2.20:1   420 frames
1280 x 544 px  2.35:1   524 frames
1280 x 544 px  2.39:1   524 frames
1280 x 512 px  2.50:1   630 frames
1280 x 488 px  2.67:1   734 frames
1280 x 432 px  3:1         1188 frames

1728 x 922 px 16:9         108 frames

SD-card: SanDisk 32GB 95MB/s
1280 x 720 px 16:9        315 frames
1280 x 704 px 1.85:1     335 frames
1280 x 640 px  2:1       486 frames
1280 x 592 px  2.20:1    516 frames
1280 x 544 px  2.35:1    659 frames
1280 x 544 px  2.39:1    659 frames
1280 x 512 px  2.50:1    791 frames
1280 x 488 px  2.67:1    1078 frames
1280 x 432 px  3:1       2317 - 2118 - 2283 - 2079 - 2215 frames

1728 x 922 px 16:9           108 frames

[DerekDock]

Maybe the resolution you want to use doesn't give a big difference.
Look at the whole list I made:

All tests @25FPS.

SD-card: Lexar 16GB 60MB/s
1280 x 720 px 16:9       275 frames
1280 x 704 px 1.85:1    295 frames
1280 x 640 px  2:1      346 frames
1280 x 592 px  2.20:1   420 frames
1280 x 544 px  2.35:1   524 frames
1280 x 544 px  2.39:1   524 frames
1280 x 512 px  2.50:1   630 frames
1280 x 488 px  2.67:1   734 frames
1280 x 432 px  3:1         1188 frames

1728 x 922 px 16:9         108 frames

SD-card: SanDisk 32GB 95MB/s
1280 x 720 px 16:9        315 frames
1280 x 704 px 1.85:1     335 frames
1280 x 640 px  2:1       486 frames
1280 x 592 px  2.20:1    516 frames
1280 x 544 px  2.35:1    659 frames
1280 x 544 px  2.39:1    659 frames
1280 x 512 px  2.50:1    791 frames
1280 x 488 px  2.67:1    1078 frames
1280 x 432 px  3:1       2317 - 2118 - 2283 - 2079 - 2215 frames

1728 x 922 px 16:9           108 frames

Thanks. That is at 25fps where I shoot at 24 but according to your tests I could get an extra second at 720p and 2 extra seconds at 1.85. Hmm sounds like it would be worth it to me...

[Bioskop.Inc]

So i just got the following results:

Sandisk Extreme Pro SDHC 1 8gb 45MB/s

1280x432 3:1 @ 25fps = 2079 frames

& I'm using an early 2011 model, which does give more frames.

So it might be worth opening that SD or not!

NEWS: Apparently we have some memory that isn't being used, which might be really useful!
See Alex1 second comment on page (its to do with setting Canon Picture setting to jpeg S2)
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5413.375

[DerekDock]

Just got 1280x720 24p 351 frames consistently on my Sandisk 95mbs   

[Burni_]

Just got 1280x720 24p 351 frames consistently on my Sandisk 95mbs   

I'm getting similar result with the 45mbps SanDisk 32 gb - between 330-350 frames...

I did some paid work with the 1280x720p RAW already. I am quite happy actually. I let my client know that there is a possibility of loosing the data and processing delays(due to the workflow) + I shot only scenes that won't cost anything to remake except some fuel for my car.

My rules when it comes to shooting with the RAW module:
1) 45 mbps or above for the SD card.
2) ONLY 1280x720 works properly when it comes to magenta frames, skipping and proper raw2dng extraction.
3) Global draw - OFF. Otherwise 2 out of 10 shots will have magenta frames.
4) After shooting a sequence and seeing the buffer emptying - I LEAVE the camera to take at least 6-10 secs "rest" till I start the next shot. I noticed that relying only on those stars that show the buffer capacity is not a good deal. If I shoot a sequence and then start the next one EXACTLY after I see those stars disappearing - I'm getting either magentas or lower frame count (for example 310 or even 305).

And not a rule, but more of a warning to those that are not used to work with so much crop:
5) I would really need a feature that takes the whole image and resizes it to 1280x720 like the normal movie mode is doing. It is a huge pain that I can't use RAW to take an awesome 17mm wide shot of that deserted beach near my city. I hope it is possible and that it won't take too much time or/and effort for the ML guys to figure it out. It will be SUPER beneficial!!!

Then again - THANK YOU MAGIC LANTERN FOR UNLOCKING ALL THESE INSANE STUFF FOR US!!! For me it's literally "magic" what I can do with such a cheap camera.

[DerekDock]

I'm getting similar result with the 45mbps SanDisk 32 gb - between 330-350 frames...

I did some paid work with the 1280x720p RAW already. I am quite happy actually. I let my client know that there is a possibility of loosing the data and processing delays(due to the workflow) + I shot only scenes that won't cost anything to remake except some fuel for my car.

My rules when it comes to shooting with the RAW module:
1) 45 mbps or above for the SD card.
2) ONLY 1280x720 works properly when it comes to magenta frames, skipping and proper raw2dng extraction.
3) Global draw - OFF. Otherwise 2 out of 10 shots will have magenta frames.
4) After shooting a sequence and seeing the buffer emptying - I LEAVE the camera to take at least 6-10 secs "rest" till I start the next shot. I noticed that relying only on those stars that show the buffer capacity is not a good deal. If I shoot a sequence and then start the next one EXACTLY after I see those stars disappearing - I'm getting either magentas or lower frame count (for example 310 or even 305).

And not a rule, but more of a warning to those that are not used to work with so much crop:
5) I would really need a feature that takes the whole image and resizes it to 1280x720 like the normal movie mode is doing. It is a huge pain that I can't use RAW to take an awesome 17mm wide shot of that deserted beach near my city. I hope it is possible and that it won't take too much time or/and effort for the ML guys to figure it out. It will be SUPER beneficial!!!

Then again - THANK YOU MAGIC LANTERN FOR UNLOCKING ALL THESE INSANE STUFF FOR US!!! For me it's literally "magic" what I can do with such a cheap camera.

Those are good rules to follow especially the note about letting clients know about data loss/reshoots. I had to run back to Tuesday's location to reshoot some exteriors this afternoon as I lost all the RAW lips I'd shot due to corruption.

The 720p is great especially to upconvert or for web but the crop kills me too. I've been mostly shooting at the 1728 and just hoping for the best. Today's stuff came out great with minimal Magenta on the 95mbs card. I probably should heed your advice about waiting 6-10 seconds and was trying to wait at least 3 or 5.

[DerekDock]

Just finished processing the footage. Shot for about an hour in 80 degree heat, fairly continuous once the buffer was back to 0, nearly 100 clips at 1728 and only had one magenta frame on the second to last clip on the second frame. All paid work....Sweeeeeet. 

[xenocide38]

My rules when it comes to shooting with the RAW module:
1) 45 mbps or above for the SD card.
2) ONLY 1280x720 works properly when it comes to magenta frames, skipping and proper raw2dng extraction.
3) Global draw - OFF. Otherwise 2 out of 10 shots will have magenta frames.
4) After shooting a sequence and seeing the buffer emptying - I LEAVE the camera to take at least 6-10 secs "rest" till I start the next shot. I noticed that relying only on those stars that show the buffer capacity is not a good deal. If I shoot a sequence and then start the next one EXACTLY after I see those stars disappearing - I'm getting either magentas or lower frame count (for example 310 or even 305).

And not a rule, but more of a warning to those that are not used to work with so much crop:
5) I would really need a feature that takes the whole image and resizes it to 1280x720 like the normal movie mode is doing. It is a huge pain that I can't use RAW to take an awesome 17mm wide shot of that deserted beach near my city. I hope it is possible and that it won't take too much time or/and effort for the ML guys to figure it out. It will be SUPER beneficial!!!

Great advice, thanks!

When you say ONLY 1280x720, do you mean selecting 1280x720p as a crop in the Magic Lantern raw settings menu, or do you mean putting the camera into 1280x720p mode in the Canon menu and shooting raw 1280x720p that way?