Author Topic: 50D Raw video  (Read 714534 times)

djfremen

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2600 on: August 06, 2013, 05:12:01 AM »
Hey folks! I just wanted to share a free Adobe Camera RAW preset

I like the concept D.L. Watson but aren't you throwing away data when you render out?  How is preset preserving / optimizing the color values?

Thanks for your contribution!

Supermac

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2601 on: August 06, 2013, 05:59:00 AM »
Hi everyone,

New video online.


I've done quite a bit of low light stuff and so now wanted to have a look at big dynamic ranges and how the 50d could handle. Not too bad me thinks!

Cheers

D.L. Watson

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2602 on: August 06, 2013, 06:16:48 AM »
I like the concept D.L. Watson but aren't you throwing away data when you render out?  How is preset preserving / optimizing the color values?

Thanks for your contribution!

Essentially, you are throwing away data anytime you render to a file format that is not RAW. Log is just a really cool way to preserve your dynamic range and most of your color information into a nice, manageable package.

Here is a quick comparison I did just now.


This is the Color Corrected DNG file using Adobe Camera RAW


Here is the DNxHD file using the Flatz Preset.


And here that same DNxHD file color corrected (rather quickly to match the RAW grade)

So, it's optimizing by taking the information that is already present in the raw, and boosting shadows and darks while lowering highlights, essentially centering the histogram like we are all already used to when shooting with DSLR's - but allowing you to render that raw information in a better format than the highly compressed and artifact-y H.264.

If you are limited on space and performance, a ProRes or DNxHD with the Flatz Preset might be more productive for you, and still give you excellent results.


Download here: http://www.dlwatson.net/flatz-preset.html
See my portfolio of work at www.dlwatson.net

D.L. Watson

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2603 on: August 06, 2013, 06:31:41 AM »
Hi everyone,

New video online.


I've done quite a bit of low light stuff and so now wanted to have a look at big dynamic ranges and how the 50d could handle. Not too bad me thinks!

Cheers

Absolutely beautiful. I love the anamorphic look. Good job!
See my portfolio of work at www.dlwatson.net

arrinkiiii

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2604 on: August 06, 2013, 12:22:55 PM »
@Supermac

Beautiful

rommex

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2605 on: August 06, 2013, 01:03:57 PM »
Essentially, you are throwing away data anytime you render to a file format that is not RAW. Log is just a really cool way to preserve your dynamic range and most of your color information into a nice, manageable package.

Here is a quick comparison I did just now.
...

So, it's optimizing by taking the information that is already present in the raw, and boosting shadows and darks while lowering highlights, essentially centering the histogram like we are all already used to when shooting with DSLR's - but allowing you to render that raw information in a better format than the highly compressed and artifact-y H.264.

If you are limited on space and performance, a ProRes or DNxHD with the Flatz Preset might be more productive for you, and still give you excellent results.

...

Download here: http://www.dlwatson.net/flatz-preset.html

It's the roughly same thing as those flat picture styles for Canon. Trying to squeeze wide DR into 8-bit video by reversed-S curve.
Appreciate your efforts, but this is basically one of the reasons why ML RAW exists -- to avoid using those ugly picture styles  8)

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2606 on: August 06, 2013, 01:05:03 PM »
@Supermac - Love it!
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

D.L. Watson

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2607 on: August 06, 2013, 05:12:31 PM »
It's the roughly same thing as those flat picture styles for Canon. Trying to squeeze wide DR into 8-bit video by reversed-S curve.
Appreciate your efforts, but this is basically one of the reasons why ML RAW exists -- to avoid using those ugly picture styles  8)

Yes, it is like a flat picture style for Canon. And no, it's not trying to squeeze wide dynamic range it into a 8-bit (unless that is what you are rendering your files to). I recommend using a DNxHD 4.4.4. 10bit which is 20 times better than what any camera can provide internally.

Obviously, working straight with DNG's will be better, and there is no denying that. But like I've said in the beginning, this is especially for people who want to save space on hard drives and speed up their workflow.

It's just another option and to be honest - if Magic Lantern was able to somehow allow for the RAW data to be written into a film-log and rendered into a 10bit DNxHD or 12 bit ProRes file in camera, A LOT of people would use it and prefer it over raw DNG's. It would still provide you with your 11 stops of Dynamic Range and give you a more color information than some $6,000 cameras and use half the space.

It's no different than Black Magic Cinema Camera's ProRes option, which graded and compared to it's RAW, you cannot tell the difference between the two.

My latest test used the Flatz Preset, rendered to 10 bit DNxHD 4.4.4. and color-corrected in Resolve, and gave more 20 times more gradability than anything I've ever graded with H.264.

See my portfolio of work at www.dlwatson.net

Supermac

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2608 on: August 06, 2013, 07:14:39 PM »
Thanks guys, not possible without ML!

dogmydog

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2609 on: August 06, 2013, 08:26:12 PM »
Thanks guys, not possible without ML!

Great video! Can you please post your equipment specifications and workflow? :)
Thx
Opposite of Sex
www.oppositeofsex.com
Canon 50D, 60D and 7D

Supermac

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2610 on: August 06, 2013, 08:55:40 PM »
Great video! Can you please post your equipment specifications and workflow? :)
Thx

No worries,

50D Raw ML 28th June build
ISO 100
1584 X 1056
Zeiss Pancolar 50mm, Zeiss Sonnar 135mm both stopped down quite a bit.
ND8 Filter
Schneider WA Cinelux
Redstan clamp

Workflow
Rawanizer-DNG-After effects-TIFF-Premiere Pro
A few small adjustments done with ACR and scaling done in premiere.

Cheers

thorstone137

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2611 on: August 07, 2013, 01:52:39 AM »
I'm having a hard time getting my exposures right. I understand I should use the Histogram in camera, with that I set a ETTR, but my image in my LCD looks blown out.. also when I load the DNGs into ACR my histogram doesn't match what I setup in camera.

Might this be a bug? or am I missing something?

I'm updating to Andy's latest build as we speak..

thorstone137

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2612 on: August 07, 2013, 03:25:49 AM »
I'm having a hard time getting my exposures right. I understand I should use the Histogram in camera, with that I set a ETTR, but my image in my LCD looks blown out.. also when I load the DNGs into ACR my histogram doesn't match what I setup in camera.

Might this be a bug? or am I missing something?

I'm updating to Andy's latest build as we speak..

I've done another test with Andy's latest build and I'm getting weird blow outs in my footage.. I follow common rules by prioritizing my shutter speed to 180 degrees of my fps (1/48 to 24fps).. I keep my ISO (160 or 360 to keep the ISO analogue)  as low as possible.. and then I adjust my F-stop to get my histogram as close to the right as possible.. I'll push the highlights over a bit and then bring it back.

I can't help but think there is something else messing with my exposure..

My goal is to simply turn my camera on and be able to get usable footage as consistently as possible. Then I'll work on getting creative..

1%

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2613 on: August 07, 2013, 04:11:57 AM »
Well flip raw on/off if you're going between movie and photo mode to get correct indicators.

Photo/Video mode the expo will be different and you need to toggle raw video for it to recognize this... officially its only supposed to use movie mode but flipping back and forth can bring write speed up to 80s/max faster.

Someone should check on how well histogram matches from DNG to indicators.

Also watch out for ACR shifting expo. ETTR is supposed to be a tiny bit "blow out" on the LCD.

thorstone137

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2614 on: August 07, 2013, 04:35:04 AM »
Well flip raw on/off if you're going between movie and photo mode to get correct indicators.

Photo/Video mode the expo will be different and you need to toggle raw video for it to recognize this... officially its only supposed to use movie mode but flipping back and forth can bring write speed up to 80s/max faster.

Someone should check on how well histogram matches from DNG to indicators.

Also watch out for ACR shifting expo. ETTR is supposed to be a tiny bit "blow out" on the LCD.

Thanks for the tips.. I'm still getting my bearings when it comes to interpreting a Histogram.. I'm realizing that what I'm expecting the exposure to look like and what the histogram to look like aren't necessarily correct.. I'm going to make sure I'm using my waveform as well.. err.. I need a lot more practice..

Quote
Also watch out for ACR shifting expo.

I think I know what you mean by this.. When I load ACR I make sure to select the default settings before making any other adjustments..

OzNimbus

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2615 on: August 08, 2013, 12:41:15 AM »
Longtime lurker, first time post...

I've really been enjoying the 50D raw hack, and I truly appreciate the effort everyone has put into it.

Here's a "first test" using the Tragic Lantern july 18 build:

50D raw with a Bolex 8/19/1.5 anamorphic.


srn

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2616 on: August 08, 2013, 05:06:42 PM »
I found 2 confusing differences in ML and TL (versions from 2013-08-04).
In ML grayscale preview for 3x crop mode doesn't seem to work.
In TR grayscale works but "normal view" has a black border and resolution is somehow reduced.

Does anyone experience simmilar issues?

1%

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2617 on: August 08, 2013, 05:12:15 PM »
The black border is just cropping out extra LV.. I dunno since it goes away with hitting function maybe its just an overlay? Would need a .422 to see. It was supposed to help with speed a-la recording in 640x480 mode.

srn

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2618 on: August 08, 2013, 05:19:45 PM »
1% thanks. I'll look closer to these differences and describe them later.

jgerstel

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2619 on: August 08, 2013, 09:56:02 PM »
Latest builds for the 50D

Magic - https://bitbucket.org/andy600/andy50d/downloads
Tragic - https://bitbucket.org/andy600/tl50d/downloads

Hi, I moved from ML to Tragic TL and tried latest build Tragic.Lantern-2.0-Andy600build.2013Aug04.50D109.reslock.zip

Thank you very much for performance improvement! Now I get more than 40 seconds 1080p.

Previous ML build June 28 I only got few seconds, so this is very good  8)

CF card is 64GB Komputerbay

Thanks
Jorgen

riccardocovino

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2620 on: August 09, 2013, 12:45:55 PM »
I'm wondering if anyone has found a way to avoid the poor debayering in Resolve WITHOUT passing through ACR.
I tested Rawtherapee and I agree the demosaic algorithms are really good, but a step involving it in the workflow is not a time-wise solution.
I hope Resolve 10 will be better, but meanwhile, there some sort of trick to raise the quality?
BMCC - 50D - D5200 - Nex5N

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2621 on: August 09, 2013, 01:18:08 PM »
I'm wondering if anyone has found a way to avoid the poor debayering in Resolve WITHOUT passing through ACR.
I tested Rawtherapee and I agree the demosaic algorithms are really good, but a step involving it in the workflow is not a time-wise solution.
I hope Resolve 10 will be better, but meanwhile, there some sort of trick to raise the quality?

No, I don't think so. The debayering in Resolve really lets it down.

I shot some low light tests last night and processed everything in Raw Therapee (AMaZE demosaicing), output Jpeg and rendered in AE. The debayering and upscale is very good in RT and doesn't seem to have the flicker problems that ACR has.

These shots don't have any noise reduction. I only balanced and slightly sharpened, not even graded yet  :). It was actually a lot darker than it looks.

A few frame grabs (video later) http://imgbox.com/g/YDDntkAGA7



50D ISO 200-1600 F1.4-F4 (Tragic Lantern 2.0 latest build)
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

riccardocovino

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2622 on: August 09, 2013, 02:36:36 PM »
Those shots are really good looking, and u're right, they are almost noise free.
BMCC - 50D - D5200 - Nex5N

Molinsky

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2623 on: August 09, 2013, 03:29:51 PM »
I shot some low light tests last night and processed everything in Raw Therapee (AMaZE demosaicing), output Jpeg and rendered in AE. The debayering and upscale is very good in RT and doesn't seem to have the flicker problems that ACR has.

These shots don't have any noise reduction. I only balanced and slightly sharpened, not even graded yet  :). It was actually a lot darker than it looks.

Do you apply sharpening before or after upscaling the image in the RT?

riccardocovino

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2624 on: August 09, 2013, 03:33:42 PM »
Here 's same shot with Resolve and Rawtherapee (upscaled both to 1080p)

The difference in detail, aliasing and chroma noise is quite evident in many points.


BMCC - 50D - D5200 - Nex5N