Author Topic: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities  (Read 32796 times)

rainless

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2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« on: March 28, 2014, 04:16:35 PM »
It seems like the newest threads about RAW video are all from 2013. (Particularly the thread that lead to me getting into RAW on my 600D) How about a simple list of the CURRENT current state of RAW video for people that just got here?

Here's my understanding (and you can correct me if I'm wrong on any of these...)

1. raw_rec has actually fallen out of favor and more people now use mlv_rec (also known as RAW 2.0)
2. mlv files can be converted to DNGs with mlv2dng ( http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7802.0 ) or newer tools like MLRawViewer ( http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9560.0 )
3. If you have any camera from the 500D to the 600D then it really doesn't matter how fast your SD card is (as long as it's at least 45mbs) because all of those cameras are limited to a 21mbs write speed.
4. RAW settings (whether MLV or RAW) are no longer reset everytime you restart your camera (although if the camera isn't shutdown properly, modules are still not loaded on the next boot.)
5. Pressing the zoom button one time will give you ML Grayscale preview  and twice will give you a full color 10x zoom
6. Your data transfer speed appears at the bottom of the screen when recording raw (along with lots of other useful information.) With my 16GB 45mbs Sandisk Extreme I get a consistent 20.5mbs transfer speed at 960x544.
7. The transfer speed for each resolution is listed at the bottom of the "Q" menu in the Movie section of ML under both "raw" and "mlv"
8. Bootflag can now be disabled on the 5D MKIII! http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11017
9. Oh... and this cool tip will ABSOLutELY save your ass: How to open up After Effects, Adobe Camera Raw (because I hate acronyms) on ANY frame - http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5683.msg43962#msg43962

Quote
1) go to your project browser, right click the footage and select Reveal in Bridge.

2) Instantly Adobe Bridge pops up with your sequence and you can highlight the whole lot and right click then select Open in Camera Raw.

3) Now you can select any frame on the right hand side, then click Select All, and then perform your adjustments. When you are finished, click "Done".

4)Then all you have to do is right click the sequence in the project browser and click Reload Footage and BOOM - behold your adjustments ;)

10. Under the "RAW Video" Movie Setting in the ML (press Q) you can select the preview setting. (I'm not sure what the cropped image that in standard in MLV  live view is... but ML Grayscale is what you actually get in the final RAW file. Thanks to a1ex for providing the scoop). http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5441.0

Quote
Note 6. Canon preview is standard full color, ML Grayscale is in B&W and also shows the video in its final cropped view (used for framing), Hacked is special fast hack to increase card writing speed at the expense of freezing Live View.

11. About sRAW (a note from a1ex):

sRAW:
- causes corruption on both GUI and captured picture (at least on 550D)
- judging from the kind of corruption, the side effects could be worse (hint: Canon code does not use memory protection)
- valid code for one camera can soft-brick another camera (that is, ERR70 even after you remove the ML card, but recoverable)


12. Unbricking the camera: Well you've ruined everything... What now? - http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Unbricking

13. Tip for making Compact Flash cards more reliable:

One of the things you could do is enable the Card Warm-Up option. Sometimes CF cards need to have data written on them a few times before they get up to full speed. Not sure why.

RAW/MLV file conversion

(The file you get after a successful shoot is either a .raw or a .mlv file which can be converted using one of the following programs.)

RAW2CDNG The best program of them all! Cooks you breakfast! http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5618.0
MLV2DNG (my favorite) - http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7802.0
MLVRawViewerhttp://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9560.0
RAW2DNG (Mac, Win, Linux) - http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5404.0
OS/X gui wrapper for RAW2DNG - http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5508.0
RAWmagic (OSX) - http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6218.0
RAWanizer - http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5557.0
Cr2HDR - http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11056.0
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Midphase

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2014, 06:06:09 AM »
You bring up some legitimate points which is why the same questions keep popping up over and over again much to the general irritation of the regulars around here.

Truth of the matter is that you're kinda right, the forum is a mess and unless you've literally been following things for months, you're going to be pretty lost when you first arrive here. When threads push past the 10+ pages, the practicality of reading through them goes out the window.

Here is what I will tell you:

1. Shooting raw on anything without a CF card slot offers few incentives for going through the trouble of the whole raw process.

2. Some new tools, primarily MLRawViewer are a much better way to convert .mlv and .raw files to CDNG's which can actually be read by the likes of Premiere Pro.

3. Both .mlv and .raw are fairly stable in most cameras. .mlv gives you sound which .raw doesn't have, but .raw gives you a slight edge in performance.

4. You can focus by hitting the zoom button twice, the first time it will go into a b/w crop mode, but the second time should go to a 10X full color magnification.

rainless

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2014, 11:52:34 AM »

4. You can focus by hitting the zoom button twice, the first time it will go into a b/w crop mode, but the second time should go to a 10X full color magnification.

Wow! That's good to know! I'm probably going to do some shooting later today. That must've been the "Nintendo" thing I kept seeing then... the b/w crop mode (what's the purpose of that exactly?)

I'll add your tips to the first post after my shoot today.

As for the state of the forum... yeaaah.  One of the problems is that even the stickies will lead you to outdated information (such as the one about RAW, also from 2013, that (for the 600D at least) lead to a tragic lantern post that hadn't been updated since mid 2013 itself.

I even tried going through and page on every thread... but almost all of them lead to dead ends in the fall or summer or 2013.  Very... very frustrating. So now I'm going through the process of unlearning all the outdated information I learned. :)
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rainless

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 11:14:24 PM »
1st Post updated as promised.

I recorded in RAW, MLV, and H264 today using the latest build (March 26 2014.) I'll take a look at it and report back later.
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poromaa

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2014, 11:58:58 AM »
Ok, so about the new raw capabilities, does anyone know a good thread for all the compiled (OSX) versions of the
- MLRawViewer
- raw2dng
- mlv_dump
- cr2hdr (or is this automagically supported in the raw2dng now?)

Anyway, if there are no compiled binaries for the above - where do I get the latest source of these things? I can't seem to find it on the bitbucket page?
So, can anyone point me in the right direction?

rainless

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2014, 12:35:41 PM »
Ok, so about the new raw capabilities, does anyone know a good thread for all the compiled (OSX) versions of the
- MLRawViewer
- raw2dng
- mlv_dump
- cr2hdr (or is this automagically supported in the raw2dng now?)

Anyway, if there are no compiled binaries for the above - where do I get the latest source of these things? I can't seem to find it on the bitbucket page?
So, can anyone point me in the right direction?

There is no one page that has all that... So I'll just add it to the first post. (Also you missed one: mlv2dng... currently my favorite.)

EDIT: Annnnnnnnd done! I left out some of the more redundant programs (though I may add Rawanizer.)

A complete list can be found here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?board=54.0

The rest? Probably google. :)
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Audionut

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2014, 02:54:19 PM »
This thread is for updating information. regarding raw recording.

There is a thread here, for discussing forum issues.

Lets keep it civil this time.  :)

rainless

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2014, 11:11:21 PM »
Annnnnnd we're back!

Anybody want the final word on sRAW and why it was deprecated?

What's the final word on ML on the 70D?

And... I've also read numerous articles about ML being ported to other platforms (i.e. non Canon). This was actually published in "respectable" tech journals... And it was all in articles about how RAW video was brought by ML.

That's it for me for the fluff questions.

I published this little blog entry about RAW video: http://dhienterprises.com/blogs/6

One of the things I noticed during the shoot was that, while previewing the video, you can  see what the cropped video will look like, but once you start filming it automatically shows the uncropped image. Is there a way to change that while filming?

All this plus I have to add the CR2 link above!
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a1ex

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 08:39:15 AM »
sRAW:
- causes corruption on both GUI and captured picture (at least on 550D)
- judging from the kind of corruption, the side effects could be worse (hint: Canon code does not use memory protection)
- valid code for one camera can soft-brick another camera (that is, ERR70 even after you remove the ML card, but recoverable)

70D:
Quote from CHDK wiki (which applies here too):
Quote
A port of a new camera model happens if and only if there is a developer who has the camera and sufficient time, motivation and skill to complete the port. If this describes you, then you may be able to help.

Other platforms:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/about.html (there are links to firmware projects for other cameras)

Marsu42

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 09:20:06 AM »
What's the final word on ML on the 70D?

Don't be discouraged, just keep asking the question, don't read or be irritated by other threads about the same thing - someone will sooner or later flip and simply do the port if enough people have bought a 70d and want ML for it.</sarcasm>

a1ex

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2014, 10:09:29 AM »
4. RAW settings (whether MLV or RAW) are no longer reset everytime you restart your camera
Are you comparing one of the very first implementations of raw_rec with a recent mlv_rec? You mentioned some other issues; if they are still present, report them as bugs.

Quote
5. Pressing the zoom button one time will give you a strange black and white zoom and twice will give you a full color 10x zoom
www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5441.0

Hint: this feature is not just "a strange black and white zoom" ;)

BTW, why did you choose to discard the old raw capabilities thread and start a new one? Most of the info from there is still valid (somebody may want to update some fields in the chart). Of course, if you can find something easier to update, feel free to do so, but don't throw away useful info just because it was written in 2013.

www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6215

While I appreciate the initiative, my opinion is that you are still learning the basics, so keep researching. Also try keeping a neutral language; you are trying to create a reference guide, rather than just posting your personal opinion.

rainless

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2014, 11:10:44 AM »
Are you comparing one of the very first implementations of raw_rec with a recent mlv_rec? You mentioned some other issues; if they are still present, report them as bugs.
www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5441.0

Hint: this feature is not just "a strange black and white zoom" ;)

BTW, why did you choose to discard the old raw capabilities thread and start a new one? Most of the info from there is still valid (somebody may want to update some fields in the chart). Of course, if you can find something easier to update, feel free to do so, but don't throw away useful info just because it was written in 2013.

www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6215

While I appreciate the initiative, my opinion is that you are still learning the basics, so keep researching. Also try keeping a neutral language; you are trying to create a reference guide, rather than just posting your personal opinion.

Wow! It's a1ex! Last time we communicated was 2012! (Don't worry you wouldn't remember that, it was a small PM years ago.)

I don't remember actually posting any opinions at all... I'd have to read the whole thread again, but I think I just asked some questions and updated the first post to reflect the answers that were given.  The problem I had with the "Current Raw Capabilities" thread is that there's a lot of outdated information on there (the thing about there being no way to disable the boot flag on the 5D2 is just one, very small example), but worse is that a lot of the links going from there lead to dead ends and things like "make sure you have sRAW enabled."

And also because a lot of people ask the same questions over and over again. And I made this thread specifically *because* I'm new...er to the whole RAW video thing (though not new to ML at all) and that I can see how it looks to people who haven't read every single thread since 2013. What would be ridiculously obvious to anyone like that wouldn't make much since at all to someone who just got into RAW now. (Which... I believe... is where all these TL questions come from).

Oh and the "strange black and white zoom" was hilarious the first time I saw it.  I was out on a test shoot and I pressed the button and screamed "WHAT THE HELL?!?" :)

I mean I don't expect anybody to walk me or anybody else through every single feature in the movie section. I'm just looking at the situation with a pair of eyes as fresh as anyone else's, but with the added benefit of compiling what I've found.

EDIT: Just so we're absolutely clear... I don't have any criticisms at all about the ML firmware... I think it's great and I've been using it since at least 2012 (possibly even 2011, I can't remember). Nor have I found any noteworthy bugs. I had a few pink frames and weird dots in some of the really old firmware from 2013 that I was directed to download in old threads, but none of the firmware (and I've tried 3 so far) from the recent nightlies has given me any trouble at all. As far as I can see, it's about as mature as any Canon firmware I've ever seen (although their latest printer firmware might give you a run for their money.)
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pascal

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2014, 03:10:24 PM »
Thread has some useful information. It's good to see summary when not reading forums on a weekly basis.

reddeercity

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2014, 05:30:59 PM »
@ rainless, What your problem with "sRaw" I had it set since the beginning , plus it get far better write speeds & ML is very stable on this setting for the 5D2. I think your information my miss Lead people down the
Wrong path . Make sure your info is correct , that all . But nice effort.

rainless

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2014, 06:04:04 PM »
@ rainless, What your problem with "sRaw" I had it set since the beginning , plus it get far better write speeds & ML is very stable on this setting for the 5D2. I think your information my miss Lead people down the
Wrong path . Make sure your info is correct , that all . But nice effort.

Cute. Did you miss a1ex's post? (You remember a1ex right?)

sRAW:
- causes corruption on both GUI and captured picture (at least on 550D)
- judging from the kind of corruption, the side effects could be worse (hint: Canon code does not use memory protection)
- valid code for one camera can soft-brick another camera (that is, ERR70 even after you remove the ML card, but recoverable)

70D:
Quote from CHDK wiki (which applies here too):
Other platforms:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/about.html (there are links to firmware projects for other cameras)

I'll take you at your word that it works fine for you. It might work fine for other people... until one day it doesn't.

But don't think that I haven't done my research.  The above is only the second time I've quoted a1ex on the matter. (Geez... now THAT sounds defensive... way too-easy to get defensive around here :p )

Anyway! What I'd like to know is whether the option is even included on the 5D2 nightly builds?

Because, for the 600D, the option for sRAW is no longer there. I began my "problem" with sRAW because I wanted to use it... but it wasn't in the nightlies anymore. So I asked (a LOT OF PEOPLE) why it had been removed. And you can find their answers in this thread. (And I updated the first post, a couple of times, to reflect that.)
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a1ex

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2014, 06:06:02 PM »
Of course, I was talking about cameras without this option included by Canon (5D2 has it native).

The best setting for picture quality is camera-specific.

BTW, the option was never there in the public builds of Magic Lantern (released by the Magic Lantern team) since raw video (so you can't say it was deprecated or it's no longer here).

rainless

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2014, 06:16:02 PM »
Of course, I was talking about cameras without this option included by Canon (5D2 has it native).

The best setting for picture quality is camera-specific.

BTW, the option was never there in the public builds of Magic Lantern (released by the Magic Lantern team) since raw video (so you can't say it was deprecated or it's no longer here).

Ahhh okay! Thanks. 

I never understood that part.  I just saw it was enabled on the other old firmware... it never even occurred to me that it was just that fork and that the regular ML never had it.

Then I have some work to do! :)

After dinner I'll update my post.

(btw... How did you unbrick your 5D2?)
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a1ex

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2014, 06:23:42 PM »
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Unbricking

I had to disable Canon's error handling in order to be able to get into Canon menu and clear the settings (5D2 and 60D). On 550D it was easier (just had to set the picture quality back to a valid value).

So, knowing the 550D experience (easy to recover), I didn't think much before trying some 60D-specific code on 5D2. Bad luck.

It took me two hours IIRC until I found the assert disabling trick, but now that's one of my main unbricking tools. I only use it to get into Canon menu and clear the settings, but running with asserts disabed for everyday use is a no-no.

(and in one of my experiments I actually removed the tiny battery and left the camera unpowered over night, but of course, didn't help)

filmkid7

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2014, 05:48:19 AM »
Im very new to the forum and it is quite a chaotic place. Sorry if my question doesn't quite fit in this category or topic but its the best fit i could find.
I am running 03/30 version of bleeding edge on my mark III. I also have a Transcend 1000x 64gig card. The mlv recording works great sometimes and records continuous with no problem. Ive recorded for minutes on end with no problem. Other times it drops a frame 2 to 3 seconds in. (the card is exFat). Is there anything that i can do to improve the dependability? I noticed there were some buffer settings (buffer fill method, and cf-only buffers). Can i use these setting to improve the mlv recording and make it more reliable?

Midphase

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2014, 06:42:41 AM »
One of the things you could do is enable the Card Warm-Up option. Sometimes CF cards need to have data written on them a few times before they get up to full speed. Not sure why.

rainless

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2014, 10:32:57 AM »
1st post updated and RE-updated.
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filmkid7

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2014, 06:11:57 PM »
One of the things you could do is enable the Card Warm-Up option. Sometimes CF cards need to have data written on them a few times before they get up to full speed. Not sure why.

Thanks for the reply Midphase. I definitely turned that feature on and it seems to be helping. Every once and a while it still only records for 2 seconds before skipping a frame. Very frustrating but I'm just glad raw recording works at all. Thank you!

Canon eos m

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2014, 01:54:03 AM »
Good work. Now have all data in one place.
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MGerard

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2014, 02:08:58 AM »
@filmkid7 ... did you try out formatting the card as FAT? Even though I do not know exactly why, it worked like a miracle on my SanDisk CFs...

anandkamal

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Re: 2014: NEW Current Raw Capabilities
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2014, 01:19:44 PM »
hi i would like to stay with 1.1.3 for a while because i have started using it for a serious video purpose. But i have been noticing that .mlv can be preferred to .raw since it is under focus by developers currently. I would like to know if continuous shoot can be done with .mlv_rec, greater than 4GB file, without splitting? like in .raw?? if so how? thanks