Author Topic: Canon 7D Mark I  (Read 680330 times)

dfort

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1375 on: October 04, 2017, 05:20:58 AM »
Is there anything to test on 7D for mere users?

I've got a test any user can easily run. It is the same test as the one we just did for the 650D. Let's start with the current Nightly build and see if there's a problem with the audio meters.

Here's the test:

The way to run the test is fairly simple. Turn on both the mlv_rec and mlv_snd modules and activate those modules. I prefer to reduce the frame to the smallest size because we're only checking for an audio issue. The first time you record an MLV clip the audio meters should work normally. What I'm interested in is what happens on the second through the forth clip. Make sure not to restart the camera between takes. Do the audio meters continue to operate normally?

The 7D is setup the same as the 650D and 700D. Both of those cameras had issues with the audio meters that somehow slipped past everyone so it went unreported. This was recently fixed.

If you're curious:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=20597.0
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Walter Schulz

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1376 on: October 04, 2017, 04:16:53 PM »
Do the audio meters continue to operate normally?

Yes.

dfort

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1377 on: October 04, 2017, 08:53:13 PM »
Great!

Of course you know what's coming next--more tests. I uploaded three builds labeled 7D_test-A/B/C to my bitbucket download page. Start with build A, it should work just like the unified build you just tested. If not--stop, don't go any further, I messed up. If it does work, try the B and C builds.

What is going on is that we made a change the mlv_snd module in the crop_rec_4k branch that I'd like to have in the unified branch. It uses both StopASIFDMAADC and SoundDevShutDownIn to stop the audio recording. However, it turns out that some cameras need to use one or the other or both in tandem so I'm trying to figure out what is needed for each camera. On the EOSM mlv_snd needs to shutdown audio using only StopASIFDMAADC while the 100D is fine using both. I was surprised to find out that the 700D and 650D can't use StopASIFDMAADC or SoundDevShutDownIn.

So:

A has the new mlv_snd changes with StopASIFDMAADC commented out.
B uses both StopASIFDMAADC and SoundDevShutDownIn.
C uses neither StopASIFDMAADC or SoundDevShutDownIn.
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Walter Schulz

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1378 on: October 04, 2017, 09:22:08 PM »
Audio meter working for all versions.
B gives "audio failed to stop, status 4" after stopping 2nd recording (and all following)

dfort

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1379 on: October 04, 2017, 09:34:58 PM »
Interesting. So let's comment out StopASIFDMAADC for now since it isn't needed and works with the proposed changes to mlv_snd.
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IDA_ML

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1380 on: October 17, 2017, 06:13:09 PM »
It looks like the 5DMk3 has received the most attention in this forum and the feature set that it has received due to the enormous efforts of the developers is incredible.  Now, this camera has become a very powerful tool for professional video recording. 

Unfortunately, not everybody can afford a 5DMk3 and the question is, are there other alternatives that work well with Magic Lantern, can do most of what the 5DMk3 does and can be obtained at a fraction of its cost.  In my opinion, the answer is Yes and the alternative is the classical 7D (Mark I).  Here are a few basic features that support this statement:

1) The fast write speed on the CF-card.  On 1066x CF cards I get continuous writing speeds in the 90 to 91 MB/s range.  This means continuous 14-bit RAW video recording at 1728x972 resolution with sound until CF card is full.  This also means quite long RAW video recordings at 10 and 12 bit with sound at larger resolutions (up to 2496x1200) in the 5x zoom mode.  I got 2 min. record time in this mode at 10 bit and 24 fps.  Finally, it means also continuous 10-bit RAW recording with sound at 2144x1200 resolution (aspect ratio close to 16:9) at the 5x zoom mode which could be quite useful for interviews, high-quality recording of dancers on the scene, weddings and even short events. 

2) The EOS 7D is a very solidly built semiprofessional camera with good weather sealing that can stand quite tough working conditions.  Battery life is excellent even when shooting MLV video with Magic Lantern.  I never managed to get the camera temperature higher than 56 deg. C during RAW video recordings at 35 deg. C on hot summer days.

3) Image and video quality are superb.  I especially like the micro contrast, the colors and the dynamic range of the videos and time lapses coming out of this camera.

4) VAF filters for this model that remove moire and aliasing in scenes with lots of straight lines and repetitive patterns are readily available (expensive though, ~300$).
----------------------------------------------------

After playing for several hours with my 7D last weekend I was so happy with the camera performance and results that I obtained with a fairly old build that I decided to write this post in an attempt to revitalize the attention to this fantastic camera.   I used the December 01/2016 build from the download link in post 1314 from the following thread:

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5601.1300

My overall impression is that the feature set in the above build is excellent and appropriate for serious video work as described in #1 above.  I also checked the classical FRSP function in the silent mode which reproduces beautiful timelapses at the full resolution of the sensor.  It works very well, also in combination with Dual ISO. In my tests the camera was very stable and there were almost no crashes, except that it is hard to close the aperture of STM lenses in the FRSP mode. Here are a few things that need to be fixed and if the fixes are possible and successful, in my opinion, this will make the 7D second best after the 5DMk3 for Magic Lantern work:

A.  I miss the Movie crop mode which allows fast and easy switching from the normal to the 3x zoom mode with preserving framing during recording.  In other words you see on the screen what you get.  This is extremely useful when working with fast prime lenses.  I use the EOS 35/F2 IS which is my favorite for RAW videos and with the Movie crop mode it turns into a 105 mm/F2 lens on a push of a button.  In this way, I can quickly zoom to an important part of the scene, make a recording there at 105 mm with a beautifully blurred background and then switch back to the normal mode.  Very convenient!  I know, I can do this in the 5x zoom mode, however, in that case I see only a fraction of the frame.  This makes framing with camera in motion (steadycam work) very difficult.

B.  A well known phenomenon is the freezing of the screen when recording starts in the 5x zoom mode.  For static shots on a tripod this is not a problem but when camera moves (e. g. steadycam shots) framing is impossible.  There is a known temporary work around this, as described in the post 1314 above but switching back and forth between menus takes time and important moments are easily missed.

C.  I also miss the "ML digital ISO" function.  It was very useful when recording video in bright sunny days where light is too much and even F22 is not enough to get the exposure right.  ML digital ISO would allow me to gradually reduce the exposure by up to -2 stops which I used very often as a digital neutral density filter.  It worked quite well with time lapses at reduced frame rates as well as FRSP work where shortest exposure times are limited to about 1/25-th of a second.  Finally, it provides smoother transitions in the highlights which is useful when shooting contrasty landscape photos (sunsets, sunrises, etc.).

D. The 10 and 12-bit MLV-rec and RAW-rec is broken.  Every 2-nd frame is corrupt.  This forces the operator to use 14-bit RAW which makes the files too big and expensive cards get full very quickly.  I know, this bug is not easy to fix and we can live with it but a fix would be more than welcome.
----------------------------------------

These are the issues which make me think that, with the 7D, we are very close to a camera with superb functionality for serious video shooting.  If someone else has observed issues that I have missed, comments and further tests are very welcome. 
 

dfort

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1381 on: October 17, 2017, 11:20:28 PM »
A.  I miss the Movie crop mode which allows fast and easy switching from the normal to the 3x zoom mode with preserving framing during recording.

I answered one of your posts on another topic about this but now I'm wondering--you mean the 7D had this option in the past and now it is gone? It isn't in the features matrix under Movie CROP_MODE_HACK.
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12georgiadis

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Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1382 on: October 17, 2017, 11:48:41 PM »
It looks like the 5DMk3 has received the most attention in this forum and the feature set that it has received due to the enormous efforts of the developers is incredible.  Now, this camera has become a very powerful tool for professional video recording. 

Unfortunately, not everybody can afford a 5DMk3 and the question is, are there other alternatives that work well with Magic Lantern, can do most of what the 5DMk3 does and can be obtained at a fraction of its cost.  In my opinion, the answer is Yes and the alternative is the classical 7D (Mark I).  Here are a few basic features that support this statement:

1) The fast write speed on the CF-card.  On 1066x CF cards I get continuous writing speeds in the 90 to 91 MB/s range.  This means continuous 14-bit RAW video recording at 1728x972 resolution with sound until CF card is full.  This also means quite long RAW video recordings at 10 and 12 bit with sound at larger resolutions (up to 2496x1200) in the 5x zoom mode.  I got 2 min. record time in this mode at 10 bit and 24 fps.  Finally, it means also continuous 10-bit RAW recording with sound at 2144x1200 resolution (aspect ratio close to 16:9) at the 5x zoom mode which could be quite useful for interviews, high-quality recording of dancers on the scene, weddings and even short events. 

2) The EOS 7D is a very solidly built semiprofessional camera with good weather sealing that can stand quite tough working conditions.  Battery life is excellent even when shooting MLV video with Magic Lantern.  I never managed to get the camera temperature higher than 56 deg. C during RAW video recordings at 35 deg. C on hot summer days.

3) Image and video quality are superb.  I especially like the micro contrast, the colors and the dynamic range of the videos and time lapses coming out of this camera.

4) VAF filters for this model that remove moire and aliasing in scenes with lots of straight lines and repetitive patterns are readily available (expensive though, ~300$).
----------------------------------------------------

After playing for several hours with my 7D last weekend I was so happy with the camera performance and results that I obtained with a fairly old build that I decided to write this post in an attempt to revitalize the attention to this fantastic camera.   I used the December 01/2016 build from the download link in post 1314 from the following thread:

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5601.1300

My overall impression is that the feature set in the above build is excellent and appropriate for serious video work as described in #1 above.  I also checked the classical FRSP function in the silent mode which reproduces beautiful timelapses at the full resolution of the sensor.  It works very well, also in combination with Dual ISO. In my tests the camera was very stable and there were almost no crashes, except that it is hard to close the aperture of STM lenses in the FRSP mode. Here are a few things that need to be fixed and if the fixes are possible and successful, in my opinion, this will make the 7D second best after the 5DMk3 for Magic Lantern work:

A.  I miss the Movie crop mode which allows fast and easy switching from the normal to the 3x zoom mode with preserving framing during recording.  In other words you see on the screen what you get.  This is extremely useful when working with fast prime lenses.  I use the EOS 35/F2 IS which is my favorite for RAW videos and with the Movie crop mode it turns into a 105 mm/F2 lens on a push of a button.  In this way, I can quickly zoom to an important part of the scene, make a recording there at 105 mm with a beautifully blurred background and then switch back to the normal mode.  Very convenient!  I know, I can do this in the 5x zoom mode, however, in that case I see only a fraction of the frame.  This makes framing with camera in motion (steadycam work) very difficult.

B.  A well known phenomenon is the freezing of the screen when recording starts in the 5x zoom mode.  For static shots on a tripod this is not a problem but when camera moves (e. g. steadycam shots) framing is impossible.  There is a known temporary work around this, as described in the post 1314 above but switching back and forth between menus takes time and important moments are easily missed.

C.  I also miss the "ML digital ISO" function.  It was very useful when recording video in bright sunny days where light is too much and even F22 is not enough to get the exposure right.  ML digital ISO would allow me to gradually reduce the exposure by up to -2 stops which I used very often as a digital neutral density filter.  It worked quite well with time lapses at reduced frame rates as well as FRSP work where shortest exposure times are limited to about 1/25-th of a second.  Finally, it provides smoother transitions in the highlights which is useful when shooting contrasty landscape photos (sunsets, sunrises, etc.).

D. The 10 and 12-bit MLV-rec and RAW-rec is broken.  Every 2-nd frame is corrupt.  This forces the operator to use 14-bit RAW which makes the files too big and expensive cards get full very quickly.  I know, this bug is not easy to fix and we can live with it but a fix would be more than welcome.
----------------------------------------

These are the issues which make me think that, with the 7D, we are very close to a camera with superb functionality for serious video shooting.  If someone else has observed issues that I have missed, comments and further tests are very welcome.

Good summary IDA_ML. I add (also wrote on another post but better here)

E. 7D needs proxy simultaneous h264 recording for preview and Easy Off Line/ online workflow (thanks to danne's switch app)

F. 7D with 10/12/14 bits lossless (we could reach résolution higher than 1080p and longer recording on cf cards)

G. At least 45fps raw

This camera is dream even 8 years after first release and a lot of people are still using it. I'd love to help to improve the functionnalities. I use it on a daily basis and I have the vaf-filter.

So the question is : how we can help ?like running tests (as we see with 6D, 600/650D, 100D...) to speed up 7D development which is far away from the rest ? Can we run 7D on quemu ?

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dfort

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1383 on: October 18, 2017, 12:29:09 AM »
10/12bit seems to be the biggest challenge on Digic 4 cameras, though it works on the 60D [EDIT - and 600D] so maybe?
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12georgiadis

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1384 on: October 18, 2017, 01:25:47 AM »
10/12bit seems to be the biggest challenge on Digic 4 cameras, though it works on the 60D [EDIT - and 600D] so maybe?
Yes it would be a big step in combination of H264 proxy // EDIT - Ok I understand now that there are 2 different builds (Crop_rec_4k and 10/12bits). We know now that 10/12 bits could be fixed.

Any idea if Crop_rec_4k can be ported to 7D ? Dfort, can digic 4 camera run Croprec_4k ?

dfort

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1385 on: October 18, 2017, 06:54:52 AM »
Any idea if Crop_rec_4k can be ported to 7D ? Dfort, can digic 4 camera run Croprec_4k ?

Maybe. There are a few hurdles to jump over. Someone needs to figure this out for the 7D--these are the other Digic 4 cameras that can run 10/12bit:

Code: [Select]
#ifdef CONFIG_60D
#define DEFAULT_RAW_BUFFER MEM(MEM(0x5028))
#endif

#ifdef CONFIG_600D
#define DEFAULT_RAW_BUFFER MEM(MEM(0x51FC))
#endif

In addition, Digic 4 cameras have lossless compression code in their firmware but so far none of these cameras have been ported over to ML lossless. Finally, the crop_rec module, more uncharted territory for Digic 4 cameras.

Seems like an interesting challenge.

[EDIT] Let's get started. Download the file named find-SRM_BUFFER_SIZE.2017Oct17.7D203.zip from my Bitbucket downloads page and shoot a simple silent DNG using that build. You should see something like this on your LiveView:



Please report back with the SRM_BUFFER_SIZE.
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Danne

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1386 on: October 18, 2017, 08:21:37 AM »
SRM_BUFFER_SIZE 0x1f80000
Taken in photo mode

Panz

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1387 on: October 18, 2017, 10:08:15 AM »
It's the same in photo and video mode, 0x1f80000

IDA_ML

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1388 on: October 18, 2017, 10:55:49 AM »
I answered one of your posts on another topic about this but now I'm wondering--you mean the 7D had this option in the past and now it is gone? It isn't in the features matrix under Movie CROP_MODE_HACK.

Obviously, I did not make myself clear enough, Dfort and I appologize for that.  No, I don't mean that.  The Movie crop mode is abvailable on the 100D which I also own and I have been using it a lot lately on that camera.  However, I often use also the 7D because of the fast write speed (much longer record times), large buffer size (continuous recording with sound) and higher resolution in the 5x zoom mode.  And when I compare the 7D with the 100D, it is the Movie crop mode that I miss mostly.

I also greatly appreciate your statement: "Let's get started" and thank you for that.  If all this functionality is added to the 7D then this awesome camera will become a serious competitor to the 5DMk3.  Used 7D-s in mint condition and 20 to 30% of their shutter count are currently available for about 300 Euros, so now is the moment to give this camera what it deserves and make many budget oriented video shooters happy.

Here is a short film that I shot entirely on the 7D at the beautiful Kapinovo waterfall, in the foot of the Balkan mountain, in the central part of Bulgaria:

https://vimeo.com/134597071

dfort

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1389 on: October 18, 2017, 01:24:48 PM »
Ok--we took the first step. Don't expect this right away or that all the features will work at first. If you want to follow the progress:

https://bitbucket.org/daniel_fort/magic-lantern/pull-requests/7/crop_rec_4k-for-7d203/diff

Please feel free to contribute.

@IDA_ML - You're getting great quality out of the 7D. As far as getting Movie crop mode working, that might not be possible. The only cameras that can do that are the EOSM/100D/650D/700D which are closely related. The feature is something that is apparently built into the 600D, I don't know because I haven't handled that camera. The 5D3 doesn't have it and that is the camera that has the most ML features working.

BTW - Thanks for the dip in a cool Bulgarian stream. We're having a heat wave here in the Los Angeles area.
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Danne

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1390 on: October 18, 2017, 02:16:23 PM »
Code: [Select]
The 5D3 doesn't have it and that is the camera that has the most ML features working.1920 1:1?
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=19300.0

nikfreak

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1391 on: October 18, 2017, 03:06:46 PM »
70D.112 & 100D.101

IDA_ML

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1392 on: October 18, 2017, 03:38:22 PM »
@IDA_ML - You're getting great quality out of the 7D. As far as getting Movie crop mode working, that might not be possible. The only cameras that can do that are the EOSM/100D/650D/700D which are closely related. The feature is something that is apparently built into the 600D, I don't know because I haven't handled that camera. The 5D3 doesn't have it and that is the camera that has the most ML features working.

BTW - Thanks for the dip in a cool Bulgarian stream. We're having a heat wave here in the Los Angeles area.

Thanks for your kind words, Dfort.  But it's not me getting great quality out of the 7D.  It's you guys - the Magic Lantern developers that made RAW-quality video possible in this remarkable machine!  And guess what - 1728x972 MLV video scales so nicely up to FHD (1920x1080) in post that the quality (fine detail, smooth transitions, superb dynamic range and colors) is way better than the built-in H.264 video at that resolution. The same applies to the 100D too and, used, it is even cheaper than the 7D! What you guys are doing with ML is pure magic!

As far as the "Movie crop mode" is concerned, as Danne pointed out for the 5DMk3, I hope that this mode will be available under the "Crop mode" menu upon a successful Crop_rec_4k port to the 7D. If also 10/12 and 14-bit recording (non compressed) is available in that mode, then Sound should hopefully work too.  I know, I am dreaming too much but I like dreaming.  I'll keep my thumbs pressed that you guys are successful and will follow this development closely.  I feel bad that I cannot help in a more efficient way but I have absolutely no coding skills.  All I can do is testing features and share my experience with them.

By the way, "cool Bulgarian streams"!  Why don't you just plan your next family vacation in Bulgaria and see them life by yourself?  I am sure, you will not regret.

dfort

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1393 on: October 18, 2017, 04:08:43 PM »
tried to match stubs for digic4 (7D) and it seems it can be done but TTL_SetFlags seems to be the only one making troubles. At least i can't find / match it.
Any hint on that one? I guess (not checked) it could be same for 60d, 5d2 etc.

Wow--so you have a 7D? I'm doing this blind. You got those stubs in one of your repositories? We can put more of our effort into searching for TTL_SetFlags.
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12georgiadis

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1394 on: October 18, 2017, 05:58:24 PM »

 also 10/12 and 14-bit recording (non compressed) is available in that mode, then Sound should hopefully work too. 

IDA_ML no need for 10/12bit to get sound. If crop_rec_4K is ported you get sound in recording mlv_lite + h264 proxy (that contains sound) and sync it with Danne's switch app (see thread). It is the best pro workflow available.



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IDA_ML

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1395 on: October 18, 2017, 07:30:37 PM »
IDA_ML no need for 10/12bit to get sound. If crop_rec_4K is ported you get sound in recording mlv_lite + h264 proxy (that contains sound) and sync it with Danne's switch app (see thread). It is the best pro workflow available.

I cannot quite follow why is this the best pro workflow available.  Please explain. 

My understanding is that if you record in 10/12 bit uncompressed with the MLV-rec module, you have synchronous sound right away.  It is built in the MLV file - no need for proxies and additional syncing software.  You can mount the MLVs with the MLVFS system into virtual cDNG folders on a click of a button, open them in Resolve and start working with video and sound right away, even directly from your camera card, connected to your USB3.0 port via a fast card reader.  This workflow is very fast and efficient and does not need round trips to other software.  Pros: 10/12 bit recording provides  consistent file sizes that do not depend on fine detail and exposure of the scene.  LL-compressed ones strongly depend on these latter parameters and you can experience an unexpected stop when working at higher resolutions, close to the write speed limit of your camera.  Drawback: 10/12 bit files are slightly larger than LL compressed ones but H.264 proxies also take up some space, therefore, differences should not be so significant, especially at 10 bit.   

By the way, I have not tested Danne's Switch yet.  It is for MAC and as far as I know, there is no Win version available yet.  I am on Win7 x64.

12georgiadis

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1396 on: October 18, 2017, 08:37:02 PM »
My workflow with 5dmkiii, crop_rec_4k on a 30' Doc with 12hrs footage :

Shoot comp raw, 8...11 bits or 10/12/14 (depends on the context) + h264 proxys with sound.
You have access to crop mode with accurate framing and 45fps raw also (not available in 10/12bits)

Post : sync and stamp tc raw and h264 proxy in switch. It took me less than 30' as it's not transcoding (for details see thread).
Edit with offline workflow (like 90% of cinema industry) using proxy file with sound. It means almost straight editing. Cndng from mlvfs doesn't work in fcpx and avid, not very good in premiere and slow in resolve (because vs stripes on, fpn... etc) compared to h264 edit on the NLE of your choice. Ideally these files could be auto transcoded by NLE in proxy APR for max stability on any config (even old laptops).
After the edit, export, edit and mix your sound in protools/ripper, consolidate and conform pictures in resolve with mlvfs + an aff or xml. Guess what ? It's rekinling and pointing on the raw perfectly.
IMO It's not necessary if you edit a 10' film with small files but recommanded for indy feature project to save time (or money).
Alternatively, we can transcode everything in APR444 with lut if you buy a 10TB (+10TB backup)... but, well, not the idea.
That's why it would be great to get crop_rec_4k for 7D!
Hope it makes sense :)
Oh, and You can emulate mac os on pc with a virtual box or hackintosh. or run switch on Linux.


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IDA_ML

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1397 on: October 18, 2017, 10:13:31 PM »
Thank you very much, 12georgiadis.  I understand now.  The workflow that you describe is appropriate for long films and sounds too complicated to me.  However, I agree, crop_rec_4k for 7D + H.264 proxy with sound makes perfect sence, especially if one needs to record at larger resolutions with sound.

12georgiadis

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1398 on: October 18, 2017, 10:19:43 PM »
Yes, with crop_rec__4k, we can expect higher than 1080p + sound with h264 proxys


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dfort

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Re: Canon 7D Mark I
« Reply #1399 on: October 18, 2017, 11:09:03 PM »
Don't expect too much too soon. I found the addresses needed to get a very basic crop_rec module working, just mv720 in 3x3 mode. However, there's going to be a lot more work to do to get the 7D to compile in the crop_rec_4k branch. I'm in over my head and will need some help with this.
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