Author Topic: Tragic Lantern for EOS M (Read 242580 times)

manly · « **Reply #875 on:** August 15, 2013, 09:19:25 PM »

Quote from: mixer2 on August 15, 2013, 10:40:31 AM

@manly:
sorry, no... i think everyone wishes that would be the "only real limitation".
it's not possible to record 5120x2880 because of the speed of the sd-controller. there are 2 raw streams to choose from. one is downscaled via row and lineskipping (which leads to really bad quality) and the other is a 100% sensor crop (1792x1028 cropped from the center).

I was talking specifically about how to code an algorithm that would not crop anything (beyond black bars to fit a 16:9 ratio (720p or 1080p) in a 3:2 ratio). The algorithm I described is not CPU intensive, easy to compute, and recreates your new RAW layer from the uncropped RAW data. I *do* assume the full resolution is available and you seem to suggest it's not. Are you saying the lineskip raw stream is directly provided by the canon code and 100% outside of our control? If that lineskip stream is ML code, I described a way to fix both issues...

maxotics · « **Reply #876 on:** August 16, 2013, 12:58:41 AM »

Hello everyone. Was very excited to set up my new EOS-M to shoot RAW today. Having used the 50D was a blessing because I already had an idea of what to do. Still, I spent half an hour trying to figure out how to start the recording (MENU button)

Is there any set of settings that removes the red dots? I don't believe resolution is as important as the color depth you can get from RAW. I'm also a little confused about how the camera's movie menu settings interact with the ML settings under photo, if at all. Anyway, great work!

Please let me know if you'd like me to shoot anything, or do anything that would be helpful to you. I always try to shoot faces because I believe they show the real limitations of AVCHD (skin color).

markr041 · « **Reply #877 on:** August 16, 2013, 02:24:37 AM »

What was your workflow? What resolution? what frame rate? crop mode?

You can remove the red dots quickly and easily with a little software program:

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/m0bxzd23p4zow8o/PinkDotRemover_2013_08_08.zip

It works directly on the RAW files and you can do all of them at once (in batch).

See my video from RAW:

No dots.

gravitatemediagroup · « **Reply #878 on:** August 16, 2013, 02:45:35 AM »

Anybody else see blue dots in some of their footage? mainly shadows it looks like?

Canon eos m · « **Reply #879 on:** August 16, 2013, 03:54:53 AM »

Quote from: maxotics on August 16, 2013, 12:58:41 AM

Hello everyone. Was very excited to set up my new EOS-M to shoot RAW today. Having used the 50D was a blessing because I already had an idea of what to do. Still, I spent half an hour trying to figure out how to start the recording (MENU button)

Is there any set of settings that removes the red dots? I don't believe resolution is as important as the color depth you can get from RAW. I'm also a little confused about how the camera's movie menu settings interact with the ML settings under photo, if at all. Anyway, great work!

Please let me know if you'd like me to shoot anything, or do anything that would be helpful to you. I always try to shoot faces because I believe they show the real limitations of AVCHD (skin color).

Cute video. Really like the subjects innocence and willingness to be part of the experiment. Please say so to her from me, with my regards.

maxotics · « **Reply #880 on:** August 16, 2013, 04:12:22 AM »

@Canon eos m. It pays to be nice to your wife! She said as long as I don't put it on FB. I talk my kids into being subjects too, but they can run away faster

With Mark's help, I was able to do a version without pink dots

jerrykil · « **Reply #881 on:** August 16, 2013, 04:32:55 AM »

Hey everyone,

First off, thanks to the ML guys for putting time into this lil camera. I''m loving it. I'm glad to see it on 2.0.2.

Now, to the point: I've been into bracketing lately and the adv. bracketing feature has a couple problems with the current version. In order to get the shutter to release, I have to quickly restart the camera and hope the ML firmware is still loaded. Ever since firmware 1 w/ ML alpha, the camera autofocuses between shots. It would be great if the camera would not focus after the initial focus and would instead shoot in continuous mode.

1% owns

gary2013 · « **Reply #882 on:** August 16, 2013, 02:35:58 PM »

mixer2 · « **Reply #883 on:** August 16, 2013, 04:01:37 PM »

@gary2013:
normally you'll find new versions there:
https://bitbucket.org/OtherOnePercent/tragic-lantern-6d/downloads/

@maxotics:
with crop mode there won't be those aliasing effects at the edge of the glasses.

@gravitatemediagroup:
can you upload a pic to show us the dots?

@manly:
sorry, i don't know the exact details. maybe one of the ml developers may answer it more detailed.
as far as i know there is no way to get the full sensor resolution. and even if it would be possible the cpu is to slow to do any processing in camera. and it's not possible to do the processing in post, because the sd-controller is to slow to save all the data.

@handbanana:
i don't know any details here, too. it's just the way it seems to be on eos m. maybe canon saves some resources in the small body. again, maybe one of the ml developers may give a more exact answer. they know better what's going on in the cameras.
i can just tell you what my experiences using it are. and they are that non crop mode has horrible quality.

CinB13 · « **Reply #884 on:** August 16, 2013, 06:25:00 PM »

Quote from: markr041 on August 16, 2013, 02:24:37 AM

What was your workflow? What resolution? what frame rate? crop mode?

You can remove the red dots quickly and easily with a little software program:

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/m0bxzd23p4zow8o/PinkDotRemover_2013_08_08.zip

It works directly on the RAW files and you can do all of them at once (in batch).

See my video from RAW:

No dots.

How do you use the PinkDotRemover, do you apply it with the camera, or is this for computer use?

maxotics · « **Reply #885 on:** August 16, 2013, 08:17:37 PM »

Quote from: CinB13 on August 16, 2013, 06:25:00 PM

How do you use the PinkDotRemover, do you apply it with the camera, or is this for computer use?

My steps with EOS-M so far
1. Follow steps in other posts to get it ML to work with Firmware 2.02 (if that's what you have)
2. Boot camera, load ML, load modules (set to autoload), set to RAW, resolution, etc., in ML.
3. Press MENU, take some RAW video. I wouldn't shoot a lot your first try.
4. Copy RAW file over to computer
5. Load PinkDotRemover (THANK YOU AUTHOR OF THAT). You'll need Java installed.
6. Make a copy of your RAW file if important (PinkDotRemover) modifies original.
7. Drag copy or original to PinkDotRemove, pick camera, and run. NOTE: You won't see a status message, but it should finish in a minute or two. It will say so.
8. Open RAWanizer, select RAW file
9. Pick Cineform and have it create video output

That's my easy workflow at moment. I use that for 50D too (except for PinkDotRemover, which isn't necessary for that camera).

CinB13 · « **Reply #886 on:** August 16, 2013, 09:05:27 PM »

Quote from: maxotics on August 16, 2013, 08:17:37 PM

My steps with EOS-M so far
1. Follow steps in other posts to get it ML to work with Firmware 2.02 (if that's what you have)
2. Boot camera, load ML, load modules (set to autoload), set to RAW, resolution, etc., in ML.
3. Press MENU, take some RAW video. I wouldn't shoot a lot your first try.
4. Copy RAW file over to computer
5. Load PinkDotRemover (THANK YOU AUTHOR OF THAT). You'll need Java installed.
6. Make a copy of your RAW file if important (PinkDotRemover) modifies original.
7. Drag copy or original to PinkDotRemove, pick camera, and run. NOTE: You won't see a status message, but it should finish in a minute or two. It will say so.
8. Open RAWanizer, select RAW file
9. Pick Cineform and have it create video output

That's my easy workflow at moment. I use that for 50D too (except for PinkDotRemover, which isn't necessary for that camera).

Thanks a lot. I shall try that out next time.

markr041 · « **Reply #887 on:** August 16, 2013, 10:47:39 PM »

Quote from: maxotics on August 16, 2013, 08:17:37 PM

My steps with EOS-M so far
1. Follow steps in other posts to get it ML to work with Firmware 2.02 (if that's what you have)
2. Boot camera, load ML, load modules (set to autoload), set to RAW, resolution, etc., in ML.
3. Press MENU, take some RAW video. I wouldn't shoot a lot your first try.
4. Copy RAW file over to computer
5. Load PinkDotRemover (THANK YOU AUTHOR OF THAT). You'll need Java installed.
6. Make a copy of your RAW file if important (PinkDotRemover) modifies original.
7. Drag copy or original to PinkDotRemove, pick camera, and run. NOTE: You won't see a status message, but it should finish in a minute or two. It will say so.
8. Open RAWanizer, select RAW file
9. Pick Cineform and have it create video output

That's my easy workflow at moment. I use that for 50D too (except for PinkDotRemover, which isn't necessary for that camera).

PinkDotRemover does have a moving green status bar as it proceeds, with reports of number of RAW files processed as well.

This workflow using an intermediate lossy codec (Cineform) may not provide the best results, compared with taking the .pngs from the RAW and converting them losslessly to tiffs and working with them in an NLE. In any case, I could not find a way to change the characteristics of the Cineform file (bitrate) in RAWanizer. The Cineform bitrate I got was around 60Mbps, a bitrate I can get using ML for the AVC video produced by the camera (EOS M) without RAW, and AVC uses more sophisticated compression.

maxotics · « **Reply #888 on:** August 16, 2013, 11:35:39 PM »

@Markr041 Does the bitrate really matter here? My understanding is that Cineform is a compressed RAW type CODEC, so keeps a lot of sensor information which can be worked on in an NLE. It seems that way to me at any rate. I have Vitaliy hacks on my GF1, and the files are larger, but I don't see RAW type dynamic range coming through. I think a high bitrate can/does improve sharpness by doing less transforms. I converted some of my RAW files to NDxHD, which is know is huge, but I see little difference because I think the amount of usable information from the 50D and EOS-M RAW is not really up to large bit rate needs. I certainly agree with you that working with the RAW frames (TIFF or DNG) would give the best quality. I hope to do that soon. I'm just waiting until I master the Cineform stuff, which I"m still working on. Maybe someone here can chime in, unless you're sure a higher-bit rate MP4 is better than Cineform.

My workflow is RAW -> Cineform -> Vegas Studio. What do you think the best workflow is? Thanks!

markr041 · « **Reply #889 on:** August 17, 2013, 12:50:58 AM »

Well, for example, the popular intermediate codec ProRes, and used in the BlackMagic cameras for example, has a bitrate in the 100's (224Mbps). So, 60Mbps seems low, and thus something must be sacrificed. The Cineform avi still has 4:2:2 sampling and presumably keeps the RAW dynamic range, so it has advantages over the AVC from the camera, but subjecting the video to double compression (Cineform and then the NLE), given the Cineform bitrate, may not be ideal. I certainly don't know. And the RAW to TIFF conversions are a big hassle.

maxotics · « **Reply #890 on:** August 17, 2013, 02:21:54 AM »

Per a discussion higher up in the thread, the Black Magic will use the whole sensor, instead of sampling or a crop used by the EOS-M. How well it will write to SD cards remains to be seen. I can't see the old Canon cameras as competing with the new BlackMagic pocket camera. For me, I'd be thrilled to get 720p with high dynamic range, when I want to get the mood of film. The EOS-M body is about $250 and the BMPCC will be $1,000. Maybe the ML RAW in EOS-M (and other Canon cameras) will be enough for most. I"m sure the BMPCC won't approach the ML Canons in the amount of stuff they can do, from photography, to time-laps, to histograms, etc., etc.

What I"ve noticed, markr041, is that many people who shoot video with cameras don't recognize that RAW, even at low resolutions, can have a more pleasing look than the highest bit-rate AVCHD at 1080p. My opinion, so far. We'll see. Right now, my EOS-M isn't loading ML so I'm RAW-less at the moment.

Working on it...

maxotics · « **Reply #891 on:** August 17, 2013, 02:31:03 AM »

Fixing corrupt, ML screen doesn't stay on, camera freezes, problem.

Re-formatted my card and put all the ML stuff on it and the camera still wouldn't show the ML menu for more than a second and then would freeze. After CLEARING SETTINGS under the menu, ML works fine again.

markr041 · « **Reply #892 on:** August 17, 2013, 04:59:27 AM »

@maxotics: Glad to hear your EOS M is back up, and that the fix was simple. I agree, there is more to videos than resolution, and color and dynamic range should be better from RAW, and that is important.

thegunshow101 · « **Reply #893 on:** August 17, 2013, 08:39:46 AM »

Quote from: maxotics on August 16, 2013, 08:17:37 PM

My steps with EOS-M so far
1. Follow steps in other posts to get it ML to work with Firmware 2.02 (if that's what you have)
2. Boot camera, load ML, load modules (set to autoload), set to RAW, resolution, etc., in ML.
3. Press MENU, take some RAW video. I wouldn't shoot a lot your first try.
4. Copy RAW file over to computer
5. Load PinkDotRemover (THANK YOU AUTHOR OF THAT). You'll need Java installed.
6. Make a copy of your RAW file if important (PinkDotRemover) modifies original.
7. Drag copy or original to PinkDotRemove, pick camera, and run. NOTE: You won't see a status message, but it should finish in a minute or two. It will say so.
8. Open RAWanizer, select RAW file
9. Pick Cineform and have it create video output

That's my easy workflow at moment. I use that for 50D too (except for PinkDotRemover, which isn't necessary for that camera).

Sorry but converting the RAW file direct to Cineform is missing the most critical point of color correcting directly from the RAW source.... This is not the correct way.

cameron12x · « **Reply #894 on:** August 17, 2013, 02:13:57 PM »

Quote from: thegunshow101 on August 17, 2013, 08:39:46 AM

Sorry but converting the RAW file direct to Cineform is missing the most critical point of color correcting directly from the RAW source.... This is not the correct way.

Establishing the correct workflow is useful for experienced videographers and beginners like me.

I'm glad everyone is taking a stab at documenting what they do. It's a real help, and I'm sure the workflow will be refined over time.

Thanks, and keep it up, please!

maxotics · « **Reply #895 on:** August 17, 2013, 03:26:19 PM »

Quote

author=thegunshow101 link=topic=3648.msg67555#msg67555 date=1376721586]
Sorry but converting the RAW file direct to Cineform is missing the most critical point of color correcting directly from the RAW source.... This is not the correct way.

"Correct" must always be used in the context of your goal. If one's goal is to maximize the quality of their RAW footage, then yes, straight to Cineform is probably not the correct way. However, I have been very clear in my posts why I am going to Cineform first. I want to walk, before I run, with video RAW. I appreciate your comments. But I it's more helpful if you give evidence, or experience, as to why one has to color correct using TIFFs, let's say, then go to Cineform. Can you show me two sets of footage, one done your way, and the other straight to Cineform, so others can properly evaluate the difference? I"m certainly interested. My experience is that even straight to Cineform provides higher dynamic range than the straight AVCHD/MP4 that comes out of the camera. For me it's been a good and fun place to start. As for the correct way. I'm a believer in "the perfect is the enemy of the good."

nicklear9 · « **Reply #896 on:** August 17, 2013, 05:04:35 PM »

Just installed ML on my EOS M with new firmware thanks to mark's post http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3528189

Wanted to say a big thank you to all those working on this. Am so happy just to have focus peaking - that's about the only thing I understand so far!

For reference I have the shutter bug (have to turn off and on quickly to be able to take photos).

Is there any place with instructions in one place for this version? I have picked up things here and there on posts like two finger click to get into the menu. Or am I best just to go through the main ML docs?

gravitatemediagroup · « **Reply #897 on:** August 17, 2013, 06:13:57 PM »

the blue dots issue I was talking about, I went ahead and lifted the shadow a bit to see them better. this was iso 800 or 600 I believe, nothing higher, SD was an extreme pro, all ML settings kept stock.

https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/09cac33146d10224812ea46e740e9e5a20130817155809/2a15b34d5f8d6536ca05d0ba4abbaeab20130817155809/7c8c80

mixer2 · « **Reply #898 on:** August 17, 2013, 06:44:12 PM »

@gravitatemediagroup:
looks like they should get removed by pinkdotremover. have you used pdr and they're still there?

funkysound · « **Reply #899 on:** August 17, 2013, 07:21:38 PM »

Quote from: nicklear9 on August 17, 2013, 05:04:35 PM

Is there any place with instructions in one place for this version? I have picked up things here and there on posts like two finger click to get into the menu. Or am I best just to go through the main ML docs?

There is no instruction for these kind of versions - only for the official once. But the main docs will help you to understand many features.

News:

Author Topic: Tragic Lantern for EOS M (Read 242580 times)