What is the best video format to export a DNG Sequence in After Effects?

[pascal]

Hello, what is the best video format to export a DNG Sequence in After Effects? Till now I exported uncompressed AVI and I am wondering if there is a better format to choose instead to keep more details or save space!? I am not so familiar with the color spaces so I am not really sure what to look after. I am not yet aware what 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 etc exactly means.

[reddeercity]

Hello, what is the best video format to export a DNG Sequence in After Effects? Till now I exported uncompressed AVI and I am wondering if there is a better format to choose instead to keep more details or save space!? I am not so familiar with the color spaces so I am not really sure what to look after. I am not yet aware what 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 etc exactly means.

You are are exporting a a good format, but you could do better.
Do you have any other codec to choose from?
If not , you can download  Blackmagic Codec for free,
I use it when i work on my PC, it is a 10 bit 444 codec, and i think will save on disk space.
also try exporting as a QT file, you should have more codec options.
Are using premiere pro to edit ? it so just use dynamic linking and no rendering.
To help you understand the differences in Color space i found a good site with some very good info
here is the link, http://www.5dfilmmaking.com/tut_444.htm
hope that helps
 

[pascal]

Thanks man. That was helpful already. Yes I use premiere too. I watched the tutorial and understand now. So ideally I want to look for 4:4:4 chroma and highest bit possible right? Uncompressed AVI has 8 bit right? I will look into the Blackmagic Codec and see if I can get it running. The main improvement will be additional 2 bit color information is that right? Do you know if there are even better options performance/data wise?

[stevefal]

Uncompressed AVI has 8 bit right?

I don't think so. In my testing under a 16-bit AE project, the lossless animation is more than 8-bit even if "trillions of colors" is not selected in output module settings.

Your original question is what I'm trying to benchmark: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8954.0

[dude]

There are several options for the uncompressed avi.
Check options- yuvv 10 bit

[stevefal]

Check options- yuvv 10 bit

Where do you see that option?

[EDIT] I assume you are referring to the "Uncompressed YUV.." codecs rather than the Animation codec (Output Module>Format Options>Video Codec)

[EDIT2] I see my confusion now. When OP said "uncompressed AVI" I mistook that for the Animation codec. My comments refer to the Animation codec.

[pascal]

In Submenu "Format Options" from Render Dialog I see following options:

• DV (24p Advanced)
• DV NTSC
• DV PAL
• Intel IYUV Codec
• Lagarith Lossless Codec
• Uncompressed UYVY 422 8bit
• V210 10-bit YUV
• None

Currently "None" is selected. What does "None" stand for? How much color depth does it have? What does V210 stand for? Does this mean 2:1:0 Chroma?

[stevefal]

Good question. No idea what 'None' means.

If you switch the Format to Quicktime you'll see more codec choices under Format Options.

[dude]

The v210 format is a packed YUV 4:2:2 (UYVY) format with 10 bits per component.
(v210 is the avi number and means 10 bit 422. Best for us would be the Y416 standard with 16 bits and 4:4:4, which equals the cineform codec)

[reddeercity]

In Submenu "Format Options" from Render Dialog I see following options:

• DV (24p Advanced)
• DV NTSC
• DV PAL
• Intel IYUV Codec
• Lagarith Lossless Codec
• Uncompressed UYVY 422 8bit
• V210 10-bit YUV
• None

Currently "None" is selected. What does "None" stand for? How much color depth does it have? What does V210 stand for? Does this mean 2:1:0 Chroma?

Did you try Any Quick Time Codec ?
The Best Choice is to retain the RGB  or 444.
I always use QT Codec on pc or mac,
And yes the AVI uncompressed is 8Bit but its also a RGB or 444.
Avi's are very Chunky, where QT's use compressing in away to keep them light but with no  detail or color loss.
Here is the BlackMagic link to the desktop Video ,install this and you will have all the Blackmagic codec.
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/detail/register/download?sid=3958&pid=3966&fid=0&did=47484&os=win&alt=true&sdk=false&beta=false&archived=false
There will install the AVI & QT versions. Choose BlackMagic 10Bit RGB Codec on export, from the drop down menu, select Trillons+ .
If you what the maximum Color depth, made you project 32bit Float instead of 16bit.
But a lot of people will not agree with me on this but i use these setup when working on the PC.

 
 

[stevefal]

Uncertainty around these many options is why I want to benchmark various workflows, codecs and grading effects - so the quality of methods can be measured concretely: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8954.msg85155#msg85155

[reddeercity]

Uncertainty around these many options is why I want to benchmark various workflows, codecs and grading effects - so the quality of methods can be measured concretely: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8954.msg85155#msg85155

Personally i just import 16bit CDNG's into FCPX and edit native,
or if i do a long clip like 5 to 8 mins eg. interview then I use AE on the mac
Do my Raw basic WB, hi-light recover etc...  export ProRes 4444 on a 32Bit Float project.
I guess the only thing better would be to export as a DPX or Open EXR .
There still nothing better working native raw.
 

[dariSSight]

Personally i just import 16bit CDNG's into FCPX and edit native,
or if i do a long clip like 5 to 8 mins eg. interview then I use AE on the mac
Do my Raw basic WB, hi-light recover etc...  export ProRes 4444 on a 32Bit Float project.
I guess the only thing better would be to export as a DPX or Open EXR .
There still nothing better working native raw.

How are you changing 14bit CDNG from Converter like RAWMagic/RAW2DNG apps into 16bit CDNG, also you don't comment using Resolve what do you feel is lost when using Davinci Resolve?

[pascal]

Did you try Any Quick Time Codec ?
The Best Choice is to retain the RGB  or 444.
I always use QT Codec on pc or mac,
And yes the AVI uncompressed is 8Bit but its also a RGB or 444.
Avi's are very Chunky, where QT's use compressing in away to keep them light but with no  detail or color loss.
Here is the BlackMagic link to the desktop Video ,install this and you will have all the Blackmagic codec.
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/detail/register/download?sid=3958&pid=3966&fid=0&did=47484&os=win&alt=true&sdk=false&beta=false&archived=false
There will install the AVI & QT versions. Choose BlackMagic 10Bit RGB Codec on export, from the drop down menu, select Trillons+ .
If you what the maximum Color depth, made you project 32bit Float instead of 16bit.
But a lot of people will not agree with me on this but i use these setup when working on the PC.

Thank you very much. I am trying this now!
Edit: seems to work very good. The mov files are larger than the AVI but seem to playback. Will give this a shot and re-export all the footage.

[pascal]

Another question:
I installed the Black Magic codec and it is selectable in AE but not in Resolve. Which encoder should be used from Resolve?

[reddeercity]

Another question:
I installed the Black Magic codec and it is selectable in AE but not in Resolve. Which encoder should be used from Resolve?

That's Strange 
Are you Exporting a avi or a qt ?
Plus if you are working in AE & editing in Premiere Pro Why not use dynamic linking export to NLE
and no need to render out. But to answer your question in Resolve try to export as a DNxHD 444
Or any codec that equal to your source material.
Remember that ever time you make a new generation of your file, you Step on it and reduce some quality
It may no be noticeable but do that 3 or 4 times and it will.
So when every you can its always better to edit or grade raw native when possible.     

[reddeercity]

How are you changing 14bit CDNG from Converter like RAWMagic/RAW2DNG apps into 16bit CDNG, also you don't comment using Resolve what do you feel is lost when using Davinci Resolve?

I use the raw2cdng , version 1.30 for pc i think there a mac version too.
You have 3 option to select , 16bit, 12bit & 10 Log.
I use 16bit ,i only use raw2cdng because i can import them native as a raw image sequences in FCPX.

The reason i don't comment on resolve is , it's to many steps to achieve my end goal.
I know most will disagree with me but FCPX has all the tools needed to edit & Grade, as good if not better then resolve.
You just need to know the "in's & out's"of you software .
Node basic grading software is great, but to slow unless you have very fast machine.
I use to work in the old Autodesk Smoke for mac , and that was & still is the best all in one software
That's based on Nodes and a great NLE.
I prefer to not have to go back and forth between software, plus unless you have the full version you are limited to
Project size & how many gpu's that can be use.
Being i'm in adobe cloud, i have been working with Adobe Speed Grade, i like the lay out much better.
Don't get me wrong here, it very good but I think Blackmagic Resolve is  blown way out of proportion ,if there was not a free
version, i don't think to many people would be using it.
my workflow Raw>Cdng>FCPX>Mp4
Just like any workflow there is some issue but nothing that can not be over come.
And if you have seen any of my raw video on the form , that how i do it.   

[pascal]

That's Strange 
Are you Exporting a avi or a qt ?
Plus if you are working in AE & editing in Premiere Pro Why not use dynamic linking export to NLE
and no need to render out. But to answer your question in Resolve try to export as a DNxHD 444
Or any codec that equal to your source material.
Remember that ever time you make a new generation of your file, you Step on it and reduce some quality
It may no be noticeable but do that 3 or 4 times and it will.
So when every you can its always better to edit or grade raw native when possible.   

Ok man now you lost me

So far I have done basic adjustments to the DNG with ACR, exporting *.avi from AE and then did the edit with those clips in Premiere. Done.

I hated to make subtle changes in Premiere, that's why I would love to color correct from RAW but I can't get my head around how to do it. How do I manage the co-work between Premiere and Resolve? Important to note that I have a few fade transitions in Premiere plus Warp Stabilizer is very important on the footage because I shot handheld.

Do you have tips how to do this?

I did a search on youtube. Is this the desired approach?

[swinxx]

i am really interested in the following:

what if i want to grade in resolve 10 lite and i want to denoise with neat video in after effects..? cause the resolve lite version has no denoiser..

should i denoise before color grading?
and if yes, how should i render in after effects to keep all my options in grading with the best possible file..?

i see the problem that when denoising in after effets i also have to wb the material and loose my raw advantages in resolve, so how should i do it best?

can anybody explain.

[vikado]

i am really interested in the following:

what if i want to grade in resolve 10 lite and i want to denoise with neat video in after effects..? cause the resolve lite version has no denoiser..

resolve lite has  a chroma denoiser, where resolve can separate luma and chroma channels.
you just blur the chroma channel and what you have left is noise from the luma which is very similar to film grain noise.
if that's what you're after here's the tutorial:

the guy in the video has the full version but to blur the chroma channel, just go to the blur/sharpen panel and raise the RGB radius value somewhere around .50-1.12. the sweet spot is around 80ish.

[mrnv45]

can anyone save a Export Template? so i can load on my after effects?

[vikado]

can anyone save a Export Template? so i can load on my after effects?

the xmp file right?
here, use mine.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5y8zmmobex1cew7/2.xmp

[mrnv45]

Edit>Template> both of the output module and Render settings.  you can SAVE ALL... or LOAD just save em after you create it.. and send those if possible.

[vikado]

Edit>Template> both of the output module and Render settings.  you can SAVE ALL... or LOAD just save em after you create it.. and send those if possible.

here

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4vebs6i3qj7q7xz/output%20module.aom
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkdyuomt2i69l3v/render%20settings.ars

[reddeercity]

i am really interested in the following:

what if i want to grade in resolve 10 lite and i want to denoise with neat video in after effects..? cause the resolve lite version has no denoiser..

should i denoise before color grading?
and if yes, how should i render in after effects to keep all my options in grading with the best possible file..?

i see the problem that when denoising in after effets i also have to wb the material and loose my raw advantages in resolve, so how should i do it best?

can anybody explain.

I Did some testing on this workflow & as far as i can tell the only way to go to Resolve from AE is to export a file .
unless the New adobe updates can change that. To keep The image quality,  i would export either 10bit DPX or 16bit Tiff Image sequences.
Keep in mind the file size, 10bit DPX will give you  about 8.2 MB per frame so about double the size of a DNG Frame.
But you can import that in to resolve and grade, for my test i set the
DPX configuration to: rendered Black Point = 0
                                  rendered White Point = 1
                                  10bit Black Point = 0
                                  10bit White Point = 1,023
                                   Gamma = 1
                                   Highlight Rolloff = 0
If you want a ".mov" and you are on a Mac then ProRes 4444, is the next best choice.
Or on a PC Blackmagic 10bit RGB AVI,or QT MOV would be the best choice there.
There may be  other on the form that have a opinion on this.
I hope that helps
 

[rockfallfilms]

i am really interested in the following:

what if i want to grade in resolve 10 lite and i want to denoise with neat video in after effects..? cause the resolve lite version has no denoiser..

should i denoise before color grading?
and if yes, how should i render in after effects to keep all my options in grading with the best possible file..?

i see the problem that when denoising in after effets i also have to wb the material and loose my raw advantages in resolve, so how should i do it best?

can anybody explain.

I do it like this:

Import DNG sequences into After effects and make LOG files in ACR. Then denoise and export to Prores 444 or whatever you have access to. Do your edit and then XML to resolve and grade the prores files.

Yes you will be losing the ability to grade to DNG's directly but the ACR debayer is better than resolve's and LOG files will still give you loads of room for grading.