Author Topic: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison  (Read 21413 times)

ultimatemale

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« on: October 24, 2013, 07:18:30 AM »




This is not a scientific test
(Pls download original for best quality)

I am really really loving my 5D camera now

Settings
H.264: 1920x1080 (added black bars in post)
ML RAW: 1920x872
ML RAW x3 crop: 2048 x 930

Shot with :
Canon 5D Mk3
Canon 24mm 1.4
Canon 70-200mm 2.8
Komputerbay 64gb 1000x

Post in:
RAWMagic
Adobe Lightroom (for basic color correction)
Adobe after effects(for exporting to ProRess 422HQ)
Adobe Premiere cs6(for editing)

No sharpening applied to footage

Music
Art of Noice- Moments in love

mhimhi

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2013, 05:10:58 PM »
liked it

pascal

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 90
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2013, 09:04:40 PM »
The scene at 0:38 has really nice colors. Also the elevator scene is impressive.
I have a question: You say you export to ProRes 4:2:2. Now first thing is I learn for the first time After Effects can do this so I am confused if I did mistakes in the past. Up to now I cut with Uncompressed AVI exported from After Effects. Is that worse compared to ProRes or what am I missing here?

PaulC

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • 60D
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2013, 12:53:50 AM »
Brilliant video. A couple really impressive shots. If only I weren't a student and could afford a 5D3!
Canon EOS 60D - (Canon 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6, Helios 44M 58mm f/2)

TonyPitzicatta

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2013, 12:57:03 AM »
Cinema

ultimatemale

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2013, 02:44:26 AM »
The scene at 0:38 has really nice colors. Also the elevator scene is impressive.
I have a question: You say you export to ProRes 4:2:2. Now first thing is I learn for the first time After Effects can do this so I am confused if I did mistakes in the past. Up to now I cut with Uncompressed AVI exported from After Effects. Is that worse compared to ProRes or what am I missing here?

If am totally honest, i myself don't really no much about these formats. I use ProRes422HQ simply because i read online its almost a loss-less format and its what most people editing on a Mac computer use. If i had intended on doing some more grading in Premiere Pro, i would have been able to without loosing image quality.

Hopefully someone else who know more aboout these could help shed some light on the issue

ultimatemale

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2013, 02:47:05 AM »
Brilliant video. A couple really impressive shots. If only I weren't a student and could afford a 5D3!
I was 100% comfortable with my 5D2, but as soon as i found out about ML RAW, and 5D3 being the only camera that can handle 1080p RAW, i just had to get it over the c100

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2013, 06:55:03 AM »
While clearly the raw wins, I would love for once someone to post a video that actually had GRADED H264 footage.  Sharpened in post (as everyone recommends anyway) with some shadow/highlight recovery, contrast, etc. added back in.  For low contrast scenes there's not much of a difference.
Of course every time I shoot H264 I wish I had shot it raw instead.  :)

timetraveller

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2013, 07:27:59 AM »
Congratulations for the video. I liked a lot the subway shots!

-What release of ML did you use?
-What duration did you get in the shots without dropping frames?
-How did you avoid the "bobling effect" or rolling shutter in the handheld shots.


Best regards,

timetraveller

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2013, 07:37:39 AM »
While clearly the raw wins, I would love for once someone to post a video that actually had GRADED H264 footage.  Sharpened in post (as everyone recommends anyway) with some shadow/highlight recovery, contrast, etc. added back in.  For low contrast scenes there's not much of a difference.
Of course every time I shoot H264 I wish I had shot it raw instead.  :)

I've seen this "request" a lot in this and another forums. It looks like some of you actually "wish" that the h264 results were superior.

Some kind of non-raw shooter envy.  :-\

I just don't get it...

For starters, the color of an h264 is very hard to match to a graded RAW (LOG) shot because of its weak structure and high compression, you would see noise, blocking and another shitty artifacts with just a simple curves adjustment. So this kind of tests that you "complain" of, are actually benevolent with the h264 files.

I think that RAW is a big gift for all the people that likes to grade their work without losing quality.
H264 is still a good thing for people who doesn't want to "put their hands in the dirt" and use their files right out of the camera.

Each tool for each job. Just a thought.

maverick891

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2013, 08:16:48 AM »
While clearly the raw wins, I would love for once someone to post a video that actually had GRADED H264 footage.  Sharpened in post (as everyone recommends anyway) with some shadow/highlight recovery, contrast, etc. added back in.  For low contrast scenes there's not much of a difference.
Of course every time I shoot H264 I wish I had shot it raw instead.  :)

I had done this a few months ago. So uploaded it. Check the description on youtube for all technical details.

ultimatemale

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2013, 11:27:33 PM »
Congratulations for the video. I liked a lot the subway shots!

-What release of ML did you use?
-What duration did you get in the shots without dropping frames?
-How did you avoid the "bobling effect" or rolling shutter in the handheld shots.


Best regards,

-It was the August 2nd build
-No drop frame at all (could have shot continuously till my card filled up)
-There where no handheld shots, was all shot on a tripod

ultimatemale

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2013, 11:50:15 PM »
While clearly the raw wins, I would love for once someone to post a video that actually had GRADED H264 footage.  Sharpened in post (as everyone recommends anyway) with some shadow/highlight recovery, contrast, etc. added back in.  For low contrast scenes there's not much of a difference.
Of course every time I shoot H264 I wish I had shot it raw instead.  :)
Most of the RAW images in this video wasn't graded (Non where sharpened). The best way to judge both formats would be to view them at at their purest form.
Am really good at using lightroom as i come from a photography background, so if i decide to grade the Raw footage's with lightroom and grade h.264 with colorista, i can assure you that the Raw footages will beat the h.264 by far which wouldn't be a good way to judge both formats.
I was able to get the subway scenes to look like that by just sliding the "temp & tint", imaging what else could be achieved with the other sliders (options not available to h.264).
But like i stated, its not a scientific test. ;)

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2013, 08:42:37 AM »
I've seen this "request" a lot in this and another forums. It looks like some of you actually "wish" that the h264 results were superior.

Some kind of non-raw shooter envy.  :-\

I just don't get it...

For starters, the color of an h264 is very hard to match to a graded RAW (LOG) shot because of its weak structure and high compression, you would see noise, blocking and another shitty artifacts with just a simple curves adjustment. So this kind of tests that you "complain" of, are actually benevolent with the h264 files.

I think that RAW is a big gift for all the people that likes to grade their work without losing quality.
H264 is still a good thing for people who doesn't want to "put their hands in the dirt" and use their files right out of the camera.

Each tool for each job. Just a thought.

Please check my history on here; been shooting raw since May.  You have to admit you can get non-raw looking pretty good too, and there's many comparisons of non-graded H264 vs. "corrected" raw (raw that has had lens correction, exposure, shadow/highlight adjustment).  Big difference.

timetraveller

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2013, 04:06:47 PM »
Please check my history on here; been shooting raw since May.  You have to admit you can get non-raw looking pretty good too, and there's many comparisons of non-graded H264 vs. "corrected" raw (raw that has had lens correction, exposure, shadow/highlight adjustment).  Big difference.

If you read carefully my comment, you will see that it's not a personal comment about you, but a general comment about people that request this comparison.

It's almost impossible to "match" RAW and h264, and even if you can, it would involve a lot of work that I find unnecessary.

I think that the most important thing about the video of ultimatemale, is that you can see a big improvement in detail resolution in RAW, much more dynamic range, and less noise. I don't think that matching colors would make a difference in those parameters.

Also, I don't think that the way of postprocessing RAW should involve aggressive tweaks in Lightroom (shadow/highlight i.e). I think that the DaVINCI RESOLVE path is a much better approach for getting a more natural look.

Anyway, I agree that H264 is still VERY GOOD for some works, but if you have the time and knowledge for post-processing it, RAW is much better.

best regards,

mrnv45

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2013, 06:53:08 PM »
But like i stated, its not a scientific test. ;)

If it looks good and fits the video, sometimes thats all that matters.  all that 1/2938 and 3/4th of a crop 1:3:3 stuff just takes the fun out of filming and making it look NATURAL ...

i loved the escalator shots! impressive!

i followed a pretty cool workflow
using lightroom and quicktime to export...

here is a final video using the format.


ive heard everyones opinion.. but the way i shoot and workflow wont allow me to use a heavy program live divinci.. my macbook just closes it out.. and after effects gives me warning in 32-bit mode when adding color correction .  so ijust do everything really detailed in lightroom.  Minus, Grain/Noise (add/remove)

GReat video im workin on my 5d3

ultimatemale

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2013, 01:57:29 AM »
Even though i like the quality i get from LR, i have started learning Davinci Resolve 10 lite over the last few weeks as its a much better and faster workflow imo.
Programs not easy to use but with practice, i'll get there soon ;)

Most people might not want to hear this, but 5D3+ML+Resolve = Arri Alexa quality type footage  :P



mrnv45

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2013, 02:00:59 AM »
i honestly wish i could get resolve to work and not just shut off everytime i click to drag in

ultimatemale

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2013, 02:07:45 AM »
i honestly wish i could get resolve to work and not just shut off everytime i click to drag in
What system are you using?

Am using a 27" imac 2011
  Processor Name:   Intel Core i7
  Processor Speed:   3.4 GHz
  Number of Processors:   1
  Total Number of Cores:   4
  L2 Cache (per Core):   256 KB
  L3 Cache:   8 MB
  Memory:   16 GB

Am not having any problem at all.

*Your video looks really good by the way

mrnv45

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2013, 02:16:35 AM »
2011 macbook pro
i5
6gb ram

2.3 GHz

timetraveller

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2013, 02:33:23 AM »

Most people might not want to hear this, but 5D3+ML+Resolve = Arri Alexa quality type footage  :P


I agree completely, for me it would be: 5D3+vintage or PL Lenses+ML+Resolve= True Film-Like Look


Here a very detailed workflow tutorial. For editing in Premiere, FCP X or any editing software that handles .XML:


timetraveller

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2013, 02:35:34 AM »
2011 macbook pro
i5
6gb ram

2.3 GHz

That computer can handle DaVinci Resolve, it won't let you play in realtime, but something around 10frms/sec, enough for grading.

Your video is very nice, by the way. The grading is very subtle and with taste.

mrnv45

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2013, 02:46:54 AM »
everytime i click the folder my sequences are exported to it closes automatically... no warning no freezing up just closes..
i figured my macbook would of been fast enough but its not.. its really frustrating so i just uninstalled it

ultimatemale

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2013, 02:53:38 AM »
I agree completely, for me it would be: 5D3+vintage or PL Lenses+ML+Resolve= True Film-Like Look


Here a very detailed workflow tutorial. For editing in Premiere, FCP X or any editing software that handles .XML:



Yep, this is one of the videos that i learn the round trip workflow from. After watching well put together videos like these for a while, you realize that its really not that hard to to use resolve for color correction and exporting to an editable format. Color grading is whats hard.
I really give these guys props for coming up with such wonderful tutorials

Midphase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 712
Re: 5D3 h.264 vs RAW comparison
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2013, 06:36:25 AM »
Most people might not want to hear this, but 5D3+ML+Resolve = Arri Alexa quality type footage  :P

Hehe...I agree and that's the conclusion I arrived at after doing my non-scientific test:


The Alexa still has a slight edge due to the incredible way it rolls off highlights in a very natural way, but the two can intercut quite nicely together and I doubt anyone would be able to tell.