Author Topic: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.  (Read 17984 times)

hjfilmspeed

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Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« on: October 11, 2013, 06:24:37 AM »
Does any one know of a way to lock your shutter to different degrees with ML? Say i want to change frame rates and i want a perfect 180 shutter and i dont want to keep adjusting and fine tuning the shutter. right now im using fps override and shutter fine tuning and its a little tedious. Can anyone confirm that the shutter fine tunning gets you closer to 180 degree? being able to adjust and lock degrees would be nice. Just a thought.

KahL

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 06:49:59 AM »
This is actually a REALLY solid idea. I find myself doing the same thing and wishing for a feature such as this.

yfabing

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 01:27:11 PM »
agreed 100%
would be an great feature to get even closer to actual professional cameras.

LucaBrasi

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Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2013, 06:04:43 PM »
On my external cine light-meter you set FPS (25 fps), shutter angle (180 deg). Then you adjust the ISO or aperture.

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 08:25:35 PM »
Would be awesome if ML had that. If i new how to program i would make a mod. Since im always messing around with fps override im constantly making adjustments to the fine tuning ect. gets very tedious i guess. Can i move this post to the feature request? should i?
I assume it would just need to be a degree shutter lock function in fps override menu. then maybe from the main shooting screen the rate button could change frame rates!

hookah

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2013, 09:42:08 PM »
Yeahh !!!! + 3766    :)
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hjfilmspeed

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 06:14:13 AM »
Yeahh !!!! + 3766    :)

I not so good with forums what does + 3766 mean ha ha

Audionut

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 06:20:14 AM »
+1 is short for, "hey I really like this idea and would love to see it working".

+3766 is over excitement!

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 07:55:38 AM »
hahahaha ok thank you. I dont know if the timers and other canon specs would allow for it or if it would conflict with other ML feature but it would be cool. Id hate to bug everyone since it seems they are really pushing for the release of the new ML. Should i move this thread to feature requests? or leave it?

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2013, 08:36:17 PM »
Is there a way to do this all ready? I think all you would need is just a shutter angle option. But fps override might have to link up with shutter fine tuning. But i dont know

LucaBrasi

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Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2013, 10:58:57 PM »
Actually when I think about it, it could be much simpler than locking down the shutter speed.

I have the shutter speed at my finger and aparture at my thumb wheel. Imagine that if I shoot with 25fps. The shutter speed 1/50s could instead show 180deg or something. And when I turn the dial to say 1/80s it would read 220deg instead or whatever degree it would be? A simple mode change to show shutter angle instead if shutter speed!? That would work for me for sure! There are som many variables for a shot anyway so a lockdown would really not contribute to anything! In my opinion.

This would then only need a shutter speed/degree calculation?

Edit: sorry Hjfilmspeed already pointed this out and I agree with that!

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2013, 04:47:22 PM »
Right I guess what Im after is a shutter angle option that you could change from main screen. Problem is if you shoot 23.976 there is no canon shutter thats exactly 180 degree. Its slightly off. I usually have to fine tune it in the shutter fine tuning menu to get it to 180 degree. Thats what im talking about. I guess what im looking for is a shutter angle option that will fine tune the shutter to match the angle as close as possible so if i change frame rates for say under or over cranking then i dont have to keep fine tuning the shutter. yes 25p there is a 1/50 option from canon. but for 23.976 there is no 1/47.952. fine tuning the shutter gets you a lot closer if im understanding what shutter fine tuning is doing. I think it tweaks the digic settings for the timing of the shutter.

It would be neat if when you were in live view from the rate button shortcuts if we can change frame rate and shutter angle and have ML do all the tweaking for us to get those 180 shutters as close to dead on as possible. Just saves time i guess. I think thats how the bmcc works

This might not be possible or i might not be understanding this correctly so just let me know. Anyways im loving ML and constantly impressed with what you all have done!!!

a1ex

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2013, 04:52:26 PM »
Show me the difference between 1/50 and 1/48 first.

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2013, 05:50:27 PM »
deal. Unless its all in my head the differences are very slight but it seams to be a little less staccato. It would be very slight i guess and it would be no tessler filter or what ever its called. It would be nice if i had 2 mark 3s to do side by side.

Monsanto

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2013, 06:09:02 PM »
This is a good idea but it needs to be an add-on feature that can be disabled or enabled in menu. Depending if your using PAL or NTSC when under fluorescents, T.V. or 60hz pulsating lights you are forced to move the shutter to 1/30, 1/28 (NTSC) so the flickering is isolated :o. Locking the shutter will ruin all run & gun night shots.

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2013, 06:31:45 PM »
true. I was thinking it would be something that you could turn on or off in the fps override menu but again Im no expert on programming so i definitely dont want to open up a bag of worms if its not desired. doing some tests now.
 

a1ex

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2013, 06:34:53 PM »
May I suggest a blind test? Upload two videos and ask people to vote which is which.

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2013, 07:09:58 PM »
Great idea. Rendering something now.

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2013, 08:05:28 PM »
Update: as of 10/19/2013 4:30 pm i updated the test so that the jpeg frames at the end are closer matched frames. also i switched up the order so give it another go. download it.

a1ex I kinda remember a discussion we had a while back about shooting ceiling fans ha ha. Also Im sure there are bigger fish to fry so i hope im not taking up to much of your time. I also have jpegs of closer matched frames but for some reason they got messed up in video. results video is a little better for conclusions.


This is a blind 180 degree shutter test. Download original. The clips are in no order. I didn't shoot raw for this test for speed reasons. I did have to fix the playback rate of the FPS override clips since they were playing back at 29.970. All post settings are 23.976. There are Three videos. I'm trying to see if there is a noticeable difference with the shutter fine tuning option from ML and how it affects motion. In no order

Canon 5d3 with oct 8 nightly

one shot is canon 23.976 with 1/50 shutter,

another is canon 29.970 with ML FPS over to 23.976 low light with a shutter fine tuning of +1.13 bringing shutter to 1/47.973

and the other is canon 29.970 with ML FPS over to 23.976 low light with a shutter fine tuning of +1.15 bringing shutter to 1/47.930

I belive a true 180 degree shutter for 23.976 would be 1/47.952. Let me know if you see a difference or if there is one you like better for motion smoothness or if im waisting my time ha ha . I will post a non blind test soon so you can see what is what and my ML screen shots for settings. Post your opinion here. magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8768.new#new

I have ML screen shots and fan jpegs but dont the bets way to post them but they will be in the results video too. In the results video the order changes so dont go by orders.


a1ex

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2013, 08:18:49 PM »
Looks good. One thing I don't understand: why not use the same exact FPS for both shots?

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2013, 09:05:35 PM »
I had a feeling you would ask that. When i shoot i like to be able to under crank or over crank with out having to mess with shutter fine tuning to much or canon menus. Im trying to get rid of steps.
ex say im in canon 23.976 and with 1/50 shutter fine tuned by +0.91 then i get 1/47.973. From there if i want to over crank to 30fps (fps override will only get me to 27.347 in canons 23.976 mode) i will also have to change canon fps and shutter speed  and fine tuning again.

if i use canon 29.970 with a 1/60 shutter then use ML fps low light override i just need to keep my fine tuning at +1.13 and i can bounce back n forth between fps without having to adjust shutter or fine tuning to keep my 180 degree shutter.

canon 29.970 1/60 with fps override 29.970 low light, shutter fine tuning 1.13 = 1/50.940 180 degree
canon 29.970 1/60 with fps override 23.976 low light, shutter fine tuning 1.13 = 1/47.973 (close to 180 dont have to adjust shutter fine tune or canon shutter)
For 60p id have to switch it all up again. Hence my suggestion for a shutter angle override idea.

I could also try:
canon 29.970 1/60 with fps override 24.000 exact fps, shutter fine tuning +0.91=1/48.000 I wonder how that would look for motion.

Again maybe im being way to nit picky. Or opening up a can of worms for nothing. I would not want to do that or slow up progress. I still cant believe im shooting raw on a 5d3 its like im dreaming haha

N/A

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2013, 12:33:05 AM »
This request appeals to the ocd side of me. Maybe have a q menu for the shutter adjustment to pick shutter angle, like 90º, 180º, 360º, etc. Would save time and feel more intuitive as well.
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hjfilmspeed

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2013, 03:10:10 AM »
Right exactly. And true content is always key but i also have ocd with these things too ha ha.

Audionut

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2013, 03:13:16 AM »
I don't shot video often, but when I do I fine tune that shutter  :o   I think I'm in that ocd camp!

N/A

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Re: Lock 180 and 90 Degree Shutter.
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2013, 03:46:35 AM »
We wouldn't be good at what we did if we weren't a little obsessive  ;D
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