Author Topic: Syncing Audio with RAW  (Read 10730 times)

maxotics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
Syncing Audio with RAW
« on: September 13, 2013, 07:41:02 PM »
I saw a $2.69 LED keychain light at ACE Hardware with a "clicky" button.  It was near the "key" cutting section.  I think any flat LED light with a clicky button will work for this purpose.  I taped it onto my Zoom H2, and clicked it while point at my EOS-M running ML RAW.  Because the LED light is right near the microphone it makes a nice spike in the wave-form, that happens when the light goes on and off.  I synced this up on the first try.  Hopefully this method will be helpful to others. 

I added some other EOS-M RAW footage I taped afterwards. 


1%

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5936
  • 600D/6D/50D/EOSM/7D
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2013, 07:49:03 PM »
I used a phone slate, works fine... but this seems more direct, you still have to guess a bit with the "slate".

maxotics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2013, 07:52:45 PM »
1% I tried some of the phone slates but they didn't do what I wanted, which is to start with the beeps/lights, and then start recording.  If I didn't have real work to do I'd write an Android app to do this :)  I hope someone beats me to it (or maybe you know of something) because for much of what I do I'd be happy to use my phone for an audio recorder.

Also, as someone else mentioned, the idea of putting an audio track in MLV would be cool, especially if we could figure out an algorithm that used the phone slate tones or spacing to do it automatically.

1%

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5936
  • 600D/6D/50D/EOSM/7D
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2013, 07:58:37 PM »
Well I'm recording on something else.... make the phone beep while filming it... line up the beep with the relevant video.

The ADC in most phones has to be bleh.

Hanni

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 11:35:50 AM »
A function in ML which makes a beep and at the same time a mark on one of the first recorded raw frames would make syncing much easier. I´m no programmer, but I think this must be possible..

maxotics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2013, 01:25:28 PM »
Here's the ML beep idea used, from Dave Dugdale


mannfilm

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2013, 07:48:42 PM »
Advice from am old, cynical, and  successful pro - use a traditional film slate, for reasons you guys have not even mentioned.  Clients and talent *LOVE* slates. Its  "hollywood," makes you look "real." Anything else and they think your amateur hour. Also, in the real world, you get better takes. Slating is a very structured, slow,  start process so the talent knows whats going on and is ready - not nervous about surprises. The time it takes to get the slate out of picture insures the talent will not start too early (especially important for nervous amateur talent.)  If you have nervous talent, let them play with the slate during setup - it distracts them and calms them. Slates make a great "gift" to producers or important talent - giving an up and coming agency producer a $40 slate can help get you the next big bid.

legreve

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2013, 08:38:47 AM »
Advice from am old, cynical, and  successful pro - use a traditional film slate, for reasons you guys have not even mentioned.  Clients and talent *LOVE* slates. Its  "hollywood," makes you look "real." Anything else and they think your amateur hour. Also, in the real world, you get better takes. Slating is a very structured, slow,  start process so the talent knows whats going on and is ready - not nervous about surprises. The time it takes to get the slate out of picture insures the talent will not start too early (especially important for nervous amateur talent.)  If you have nervous talent, let them play with the slate during setup - it distracts them and calms them. Slates make a great "gift" to producers or important talent - giving an up and coming agency producer a $40 slate can help get you the next big bid.

+1 to this.... at least in the corporate world you'll encounter individuals who might not be all that into the latest digital tech and if you are standing there with a phone slate, they might not even think about it.
Besides, a good old fashioned slate, with information marked across it, is worth its weight in gold when you start sorting out the clips after the shoot or several days of shooting.
Don't spend more time in post administering clips than you have to. And the slate also have a nice clear click when you use it correctly.
I've had no issues syncing up audio with the 500gb of footage I brought home from the latest corporate shoot.

bnvm

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2013, 06:39:08 PM »
Advice from am old, cynical, and  successful pro - use a traditional film slate, for reasons you guys have not even mentioned.  Clients and talent *LOVE* slates. Its  "hollywood," makes you look "real." Anything else and they think your amateur hour. Also, in the real world, you get better takes. Slating is a very structured, slow,  start process so the talent knows whats going on and is ready - not nervous about surprises. The time it takes to get the slate out of picture insures the talent will not start too early (especially important for nervous amateur talent.)  If you have nervous talent, let them play with the slate during setup - it distracts them and calms them. Slates make a great "gift" to producers or important talent - giving an up and coming agency producer a $40 slate can help get you the next big bid.

While I absolutely agree with this for controlled situations. Try run and gun shooting a 2 year old child, by yourself, out doors, with a dual focus anamorphic setup, starting and stopping an audio recorder, on a glidecam, adjusting aperture and a VND filter, when there is only 25 seconds before buffering out and say that traditional film slate is practical.

Midphase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 712
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2013, 07:07:12 PM »
While I absolutely agree with this for controlled situations. Try run and gun shooting a 2 year old child, by yourself, out doors, with a dual focus anamorphic setup, starting and stopping an audio recorder, on a glidecam, adjusting aperture and a VND filter, when there is only 25 seconds before buffering out and say that traditional film slate is practical.

You can always tail-slate it.

core_32

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2013, 10:31:52 PM »

bnvm

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2013, 05:08:28 PM »
You can always tail-slate it.

True but that doesn't change the fact that I have to carry it all the time and set down the camera if I want the slate in focus, my current setup has a minimum of 4 feet focus distance. Also what do I do if the recording buffers out and stops before I can tail-slate it. Actually there is nothing to gain by tail-slating it, in fact it is a little more risky.

Shield

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2013, 07:13:27 AM »
While I absolutely agree with this for controlled situations. Try run and gun shooting a 2 year old child, by yourself, out doors, with a dual focus anamorphic setup, starting and stopping an audio recorder, on a glidecam, adjusting aperture and a VND filter, when there is only 25 seconds before buffering out and say that traditional film slate is practical.

I stopped shooting my 4 and 7 year old with the 5d3 unless they're somewhere sitting still.  I bought a 70d that tracks them very well in AF with the articulated touchscreen.  I was missing footage of them fooling around with the camera.  Just too tough without an external screen that you can view with the camera held down to their height - then, you really have no good way to mount a LCD + audio recorder without using a full rig, and at that point it's not worth the hassle anymore.

Now if they're in a school play or sitting still I always try to record raw.

Here's where the decision is tough - this week for Halloween.  Do I take the 70D and have it track them walking up to the door (good) but the light is getting low (bad)?  I haven't decided yet.  I could splice together and make a better "film" of their Halloween night with raw, but if I want to capture the entire thing I just don't have enough patience to make sure they're safe crossing the road, focusing, hitting the external audio, carrying a rig, trying to keep stable, focusing, keeping an eye on exposure, focusing, trying to remember how much space is left on the card, etc.
Think I'll just grab my 70d, get the entire thing.  Have a Sigma 30 F/1.4 that's good for low light.  Won't be "ooh-ahh" raw footage like raw but I won't miss anything and the night might be actually fun for me.  Now all I need to worry about is framing and keeping the camera steady.

For extra audio I've rigged my Zoom H1 in a shock mount underneath my son's candy holder...:)

dsManning

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2013, 05:18:05 PM »
This app isn't perfect, but is pretty much what you are describing.  Change scene, shot, and take. And can export as .xml file for syncing to FCP or Premiere.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=nl.aimproductions.app.filmbuddy

maxotics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
Re: Syncing Audio with RAW
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2013, 05:57:11 PM »
I could splice together and make a better "film" of their Halloween night with raw, but if I want to capture the entire thing I just don't have enough patience to make sure they're safe crossing the road, focusing, hitting the external audio, carrying a rig, trying to keep stable, focusing, keeping an eye on exposure, focusing, trying to remember how much space is left on the card, etc.
Think I'll just grab my 70d, get the entire thing.  Have a Sigma 30 F/1.4 that's good for low light.  Won't be "ooh-ahh" raw footage like raw but I won't miss anything and the night might be actually fun for me.  Now all I need to worry about is framing and keeping the camera steady.

For extra audio I've rigged my Zoom H1 in a shock mount underneath my son's candy holder...:)

My 2-cents.  You're not going to need lip sync for such a film because most of the kids will have masks.  Atmosphere audio, captured the way you're describing should work fine.

For me, one of the strengths of RAW IS low-light filming.  Yes, you get a lot of noise, but  you also get a lot of shadow-depth and more color subtlety.  You get a feel for the natural lighting.  H.264 makes everything look like it was shot under a light, as well as it can do.

Just pointing out that you're trading easier audio for for contrasty video that will look like video.