Author Topic: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.  (Read 46025 times)

Markus

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Im dreaming here but what if we could send a start record signal from the camera to the remote input on the new H6 Zoom. It would be a killer feature for those how own a H6. It would simplify sync and almost make internal audio recording abundant. Could this be possible?

For the moment we have this non optimal but working solution.

xNiNELiVES

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Im dreaming here but what if we could send a start record signal from the camera to the remote input on the new H6 Zoom. It would be a killer feature for those how own a H6. It would simplify sync and almost make internal audio recording abundant. Could this be possible?

I was speculating this a while ago, I don't know if anyone responded to the comment.

Markus

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Maybe it would be possible to analyze the signal from the zoom remote and figure out what kind of signal needs to be sent. Or maybe zoom them self would be willing to provide info to help with such an endeavor.

SDX

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Chances are good. How do you trigger the H6 externally? Is there a 2.5mm jack for the trigger as on many DSLRs?
600D, EOS M - Flickr

xNiNELiVES

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Chances are good. How do you trigger the H6 externally? Is there a 2.5mm jack for the trigger as on many DSLRs?

First off lets stop speculating on a product that hasn't been released and look at the long released previous H4N.




Markus

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First off lets stop speculating on a product that hasn't been released and look at the long released previous H4N.

But it is released =D, I own one as of a couple of weeks ago. Of Course a trigger for the H4n would be nice as well.



This is what the remote looks like:

xNiNELiVES

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But it is released =D, I own one as of a couple of weeks ago. Of Course a trigger for the H4n would be nice as well.

It has?! I've been looking at this for a while I don't know how I could have missed it. Anyways yes, this would be an extremely useful feature. No more sync beep required! This would kill all the audio cravers. You could just suggest them to this. Probably a better solution than fixing audio syncing and write speed saturation issues.

jc

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this would be an extremely useful feature. No more sync beep required!

might be quite a cool option.. you could probably use a cheep wireless, bluetooth or otherwise, to send the sync signal to the zoom.. maybe £40 / $60 per camera! and a full wirless sync solution! tho if you can, the v2 magic lantern format may fix many of these things when it arrives!

bashi

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This feature would be really nice!

On this site are the needed signals listed:

http://marcuswolschon.blogspot.de/2012/04/easterhegg-basel-2012.html

"The protocoll is RS232 at 3.3V with 2400bps 8n1
The remote sends 2 sequences of 2 bytes with a small delay:
Record: 0x81 0x00 | 0x80 0x00
Play:   0x82 0x00 | 0x80 0x00
Stop:   0x84 0x00 | 0x80 0x00
ffwd:   0x88 0x00 | 0x80 0x00
rwd:    0x90 0x00 | 0x80 0x00
vol+:   0x80 0x08 | 0x80 0x00
vol-:   0x80 0x10 | 0x80 0x00
rec+:   0x80 0x20 | 0x80 0x00
rec-:   0x80 0x40 | 0x80 0x00
mic :   0x80 0x01 | 0x80 0x00
ch1 :   0x80 0x02 | 0x80 0x00
ch2 :   0x80 0x04 | 0x80 0x00"

Markus

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That looks great! :D Could you output a signal like that from the headphones out or usb?

ted ramasola

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I would like to see this being developed also. I hope the H6 and H4n has the same triggers via remote so I can use my H4n for this.
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SDX

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Okay, then, here you go:

1. For the hackers:

a) Use the hpress module (you'll find it somewhere here) to trigger video recording via half-press.
b) Connect a 2.5mm jack (on some cameras, on others it might be the special trigger-connector) on the camera. The first line is GND, second is half-press and gets pulled low when half-press button is being pressed. The last is full-press, we don't need that.
c) Use an Arduino to measure if half-press is low. For simple purposes, just connect it to a digital pin and do some digitalRead. For the more advanced users: use external interrupts, that should allow lower delays.
d) Now get a 2.5mm jack (I think the jack on the Zoom is 2.5mm) with 4 lines. I don't know the order, but I think the 4 are: Vcc, GND, RX, TX.
e) Connect correctly, check if voltages differ (It might be everything, most likely 1.8, 3.3 or 5V). If voltages aren't the same between Arduino and Zoom, you'll have to use level shifters. Now a record message can be send to the Zoom. Done.
e) Optimize the circuit by using some ATtinys instead, start a kickstarter and get rich.


2. For the rest of us
a) wait for 1.e



EDIT: it's 3.3V - luckily ATs run that stuff
EDIT: also: the other way around is also possible: make the zoom start video recording. It certainly sends a message when starting. Pulling the half press low causes the camera to record as well (when the hpress module is loaded, off course).
600D, EOS M - Flickr

xNiNELiVES

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Okay, then, here you go:

1. For the hackers:

a) Use the hpress module (you'll find it somewhere here) to trigger video recording via half-press.
b) Connect a 2.5mm jack (on some cameras, on others it might be the special trigger-connector) on the camera. The first line is GND, second is half-press and gets pulled low when half-press button is being pressed. The last is full-press, we don't need that.
c) Use an Arduino to measure if half-press is low. For simple purposes, just connect it to a digital pin and do some digitalRead. For the more advanced users: use external interrupts, that should allow lower delays.
d) Now get a 2.5mm jack (I think the jack on the Zoom is 2.5mm) with 4 lines. I don't know the order, but I think the 4 are: Vcc, GND, RX, TX.
e) Connect correctly, check if voltages differ (It might be everything, most likely 1.8, 3.3 or 5V). If voltages aren't the same between Arduino and Zoom, you'll have to use level shifters. Now a record message can be send to the Zoom. Done.
e) Optimize the circuit by using some ATtinys instead, start a kickstarter and get rich.


2. For the rest of us
a) wait for 1.e



EDIT: it's 3.3V - luckily ATs run that stuff
EDIT: also: the other way around is also possible: make the zoom start video recording. It certainly sends a message when starting. Pulling the half press low causes the camera to record as well (when the hpress module is loaded, off course).

Can't we just use the dedicated video start button for the newer cameras and the set button for the older cameras (5D2)?

SDX

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The half- and full-press button is wired directly to the trigger jack, that's why we can read and set the state of the button externally. None of the other buttons can do this.
600D, EOS M - Flickr

xNiNELiVES

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The half- and full-press button is wired directly to the trigger jack, that's why we can read and set the state of the button externally. None of the other buttons can do this.

Ok, makes sense.

bumkicho

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Any updates on this? This would be an amazing feature!!

Midphase

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I really doubt that this would have the frame-accurate functionality that it would need to truly be useful. If you still have to manually sync the audio in post...what's the point?


Rather, let's hope that the built-in audio functionality is restored soon to ML so that auto-syncing using Pluraleyes or the Premiere Pro equivalent is once again an option.

Markus

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Even without sync it would be extreamly helpfull in many situations. Its easy to forget both buttons in the heat of the moment and if the length times are about the same it would be much easyer to pare upp clips if you record a lot of them. Adjusting sync will also be simpefyed when its only a couple of frames that differs. 

xNiNELiVES

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2013, 12:53:37 AM »
I really doubt that this would have the frame-accurate functionality that it would need to truly be useful. If you still have to manually sync the audio in post...what's the point?

Well wouldn't it be possible to have have any syncing issues because the audio clip would be the exact same duration as the video clip?

ted ramasola

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2013, 01:00:26 AM »
Even without sync it would be extreamly helpfull in many situations. Its easy to forget both buttons in the heat of the moment and if the length times are about the same it would be much easyer to pare upp clips if you record a lot of them. Adjusting sync will also be simpefyed when its only a couple of frames that differs.
+1
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Markus

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2013, 03:10:43 AM »
To start with I guess you would need one of these.


I have also checked that the H4n start stop signal and the H6 remote start stop signal is the same so if we get this to work it will work on both =)

hkarlsen

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2013, 01:17:26 PM »
BUMP! Yes, this really would be an amazing setup. Lets face it, even with audio working again on RAW, its not hi-fi going on inside the DSLRs. External sound is still the better option

SteveScout

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2013, 06:41:19 PM »
Hey, have you read this thread?

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9306.0

Looks like Markus figured it out, but this seems to work only on the new H6 since the autostart feature (begin recording on a certain input level) seems not to be available at the older H4n. I checked my manual and could not find it anywhere ...

Steffen

Markus

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2013, 06:50:02 PM »
It works but you have to stop it manually and then press it one more time so it is listening for the next record signal from the camera.

SteveScout

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2013, 11:27:00 PM »
Yeah, but that´s okay and the best solution so far. Will definitely buy a H6n for christmas then to have sync audio with less manual work.

Markus

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2013, 12:05:54 AM »
I've pitched the other idea for an electrical engineer with c++ skills see if he takes the bait =P.

Baarman

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2013, 02:15:42 AM »
I'm very interested in this too, H6 is in my shopping list...

mixmastermike

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2014, 01:03:37 AM »
Hi, I'm no expert on this, but I was just playing about with my 5d mkiii using the MLV and MLV_SND module.

Would it be possible to trigger the Zoom H6 recorder from the internal mic now that we have sound?

As I say I'm no expert but Im happy to try ideas out and feedback results.

Markus

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2014, 03:38:42 AM »
Hi, I'm no expert on this, but I was just playing about with my 5d mkiii using the MLV and MLV_SND module.

Would it be possible to trigger the Zoom H6 recorder from the internal mic now that we have sound?

As I say I'm no expert but Im happy to try ideas out and feedback results.

You need a kinda consistent level on the signal to keep alive recording on the H6 and you need the signal to start when recording starts. The monitoring sound goes out regardless of if the camera is recording och idle in live view. Have not tryed to use SMPTE module while recording sound with MLV SND, my guess is there will be conflicts =). Guess I'll try that out. SMPTE also has a bug that needs to be addressed where it freezes the camera if It is enabled when you start recording if you haven't pushed the test tone in SMPTE submenu after reboot.

mixmastermike

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2014, 04:25:02 AM »
Thanks for the heads up. I've been playing about with the SMPTE module and have managed to get it to start recording but when I stop recording it doesn't stop the signal and audio recording continues. I'm going to continue reading the posts and see if I can work out why the SMPTE module isn't turning off the signal. Have to say though I feel pretty close to having a solution, the image has always been awesome with raw. I'm excited to getting an audio solution working.

If MLC_SND and MLV_REC return to functioning solidly, syncing the audio from the H6 with pluraleyes would be sweet. I've built a nice shoulder rig with Zacuto half cage, QR Shoulder pad, Tornado and Z-drive, AXIS mount and EVF. Getting this working would complete the deal for me. Stunning Image and Sound, job done. time to film…..

Markus

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2014, 04:31:57 AM »
Thanks for the heads up. I've been playing about with the SMPTE module and have managed to get it to start recording but when I stop recording it doesn't stop the signal and audio recording continues. I'm going to continue reading the posts and see if I can work out why the SMPTE module isn't turning off the signal. Have to say though I feel pretty close to having a solution, the image has always been awesome with raw. I'm excited to getting an audio solution working.

If MLC_SND and MLV_REC return to functioning solidly, syncing the audio from the H6 with pluraleyes would be sweet. I've built a nice shoulder rig with Zacuto half cage, QR Shoulder pad, Tornado and Z-drive, AXIS mount and EVF. Getting this working would complete the deal for me. Stunning Image and Sound, job done. time to film…..

Sounds like a kewl little rig!  Post a picture of it =P. I'll try out smpte with mlv + sound tomorrow see if I have the same problem.

Markus

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2014, 04:48:03 PM »
SMPTE does not stop when mlv stops and there is interference from the sound output. I guess the audio monitoring needs to be disabled and mlv stop needs to communicate with smpte. 

mixmastermike

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2014, 04:52:45 PM »
What are your settings on SMPTE? I have mine at 50 and the gain dial on the H6 set accordingly to hit 0db, I ask as I didn't have the sound bleed. Are you muting the channel the SMPTE goes into in the H6 Mixer?

Also have you checked with the Raw_Rec Module?

Markus

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2014, 04:58:23 PM »
What are your settings on SMPTE? I have mine at 50 and the gain dial on the H6 set accordingly to hit 0db, I ask as I didn't have the sound bleed. Are you muting the channel the SMPTE goes into in the H6 Mixer?

Also have you checked with the Raw_Rec Module?

I took the signal in via line in when i used this. Line in expects a stronger signal so I boosted speaker volume to 100 (Not a good idea if you go in via XLR!). Then I set the gain to get level on H6 at 0db and then mute that channel so I can monitor sound in my H6. Raw_rec should work, at least it has before. Can check that in latest build.

mixmastermike

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2014, 05:11:03 PM »
I just got up here, but I'm going to do some more testing later on today. I need a solution for a one man shoulder rig so the one button press and I can record sound and video would be ideal. I ordered and OKI MC1 to see if that will work with ML, should be here next week.

I also had a thought that once the updates to MLV_REC and MLV_SND get those modules running smoothly maybe a wired remote to the H6 is a viable work around. At least in post plural eyes can sync up the audio to make it manageable, rather that sliding the audio a couple of frames back and forth. I have a project for a short cooking show in a week and wanted to give this rig a go but the stability has me a little worried, however the possibility of raw and good sound also has me excited lol

ill post a pic of the rig later it looks like a cross between a transformer and a shoulder mount missile launcher lol

xNiNELiVES

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Any pic? And this works with RAC_REC.MO with a 5D 2?

rainless

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Annnd he figured it out :)
The Gear - Canon 5D Mark II, Yongnuo 565EX flash, PhotoSel 3mx3m backdrop stand with 3mx3m muslin backdrops. Elinchrom D-Lite 4 it studio lights, some big-ass 110cm reflector. Unlimited German Models

Markus

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SMPTE Module seems a dead module so right know this method does not work right now =(. An add on to send cont. sound signal from beep module as an option would be a way to make this work without need of the smpte module...

mixmastermike

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Any pic? And this works with RAC_REC.MO with a 5D 2?

here are some pics, i also pulled the trigger on an Atomos Ninja Blade, that way I get a source with sound synced too.









This one shows the studio set up, with the Ninja Blade on the back




Markus

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Intresting info on this site. Seems like the canon lanc connector also use 3.3v as does the zoom h6 remote protocol.
http://www.doc-diy.net/photo/eos_wired_remote/

erek

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Is there a way to get mlv_rec / mlv_snd to work with auto start and stop of the Zoom H6?  I too tried the smpte.mo and with mlv_rec it just starts, and doesn't stop when mlv_rec stops...

Markus

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I didn't even think smpt module still worked with current builds? However you cannot use mlv and and smpte module at the same time. The smtp.mo uses the sound circuit that's needed for sound recording. So you can't use this method if you want to record internal sound at the same time.

erek

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I've started looking at the source code for mlv_snd

https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/3efd69b63b955619246b4c0c7095e2c234522ffa/modules/mlv_snd/mlv_snd.c?at=unified


, and I am considering attempting to implement sending a beep tone inside of mlv_snd_start()  and also stop it inside of the function mlv_snd_stop()


... still looking for the source code for the beep though...


mario1000

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Hi Markus,

it is a long time ago that you have published this video about how to trigger external recorder automaticaly when shooting RAW:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7890.0

Since the SMPTE module does not work with the latest nightly build could you please tell me which version do you used for this video?

BR

Markus

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I'm afraid I can't remember. If someone with programing skills could program a constant beep module or add that functionality to the beep setting you would not need smpte module...

PaulHarwood856

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Re: Zoom H6 automatic rec start signal from Camera when recording raw feature.
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2016, 10:08:41 PM »
Hello everyone,

     I recently purchased the Zoom H6, and came across this thread. A brilliant idea, that's for sure. I have the T3i and 7D. I have read all the posts, and I just wanted to ask: Is there any way to pull of recording in camera that triggers the Zoom H6 to record at the same time? It seems there isn't but, I figured I would ask since March of 2015 was the last post. If someone could just let me know yes or no, or if there is a way I can attempt this by purchased certain cords I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

- Paul Harwood