Modified settings menu

[Marsu42]

Proposal to combine MyMenu and Modified

To me, this seems to combine two completely unrelated approaches just because it can be done. MyMenu is about settings you always want to see because you're using them a lot.

The new Delta menu as far as I understand it is about settings you never want to see in one place unless something doesn't work as expected, and here's the way to figure out why ml is doing something w/o resetting the whole config. Or is the Delta menu supposed to give quick access to changed settings because ml expects you to change them again? If so, I've misunderstood the concept.

[stevefal]

Rather than mocking up, I'll make suggestions based on what's posted.

based on a1ex's above:



- Use full-size font throughout; occasional cropping on the right is better than most items being tiny
- Dim all children (icon, name and value) that are inactive due to an OFF parent
- Left-align child icons with parent text

The dimming may sound superfluous, but in the example above, there are only 3 deltas in effect.

[stevefal]

To me, this seems to combine two completely unrelated approaches just because it can be done.

For me it's not 'because it can be done'. I would appreciate one menu for settings I have changed or I change often.

Btw the proposal does not preclude having a discreet "starred" menu (current MyMenu), and a discreet "delta-starred" menu (current Modified menu). But the proposal is to join the two sets in a new menu because I think it represents the settings that are most important at any time.

[Marsu42]

Btw the proposal does not preclude having a discreet "starred" menu (current MyMenu), and a discreet "delta-starred" menu (current Modified menu).

For me, this is the idea that makes sense - though integrating what to show or hide in the Delta Menu of course could be integrated with the "customize menus" option to prevent code duplication.

However, as written above, I'd favor to show all changed settings that differ from a base user config in t he delta menu and then let the user hide the one that aren't wanted.

[a1ex]

Sorted the children dimming and the icon alignment.



For ETTR, the submenu settings being active with the main entry disabled is an exception and is not handled yet (they are dimmed if the auto ETTR is disabled, just like all other submenu entries).

For fonts, the main reason I've chosen a smaller one was that submenu entries tend to be a little more verbose than top-level entries, so having a small font helps maintaining the alignment for the name and value columns.

Also, it's a good hint that these are secondary settings, so it should also help reducing the visual clutter. And you have the full-size copies a few clicks away, in the submenu.

[stevefal]

Btw the proposal does not preclude having a discreet "starred" menu (current MyMenu), and a discreet "delta-starred" menu (current Modified menu). But the proposal is to join the two sets in a new menu because I think it represents the settings that are most important at any time.

On second thought, the proposal as written does not support discreet menus because it doesn't accommodate an item that should show in both menus. That would have to be handled by a 4th value or a new multi-select scheme.

In either case I prefer the unified approach of one menu.

I agreed that what constitutes "delta" is ideally based upon a modifiable base configuration. One proposal is to have a "Set defaults" mode in Preferences, in which the menu system turns a new color (like Customize does). Within this mode, every value change alters the base configuration from which deltas are determined.

While in this mode, all value text is white, and all overridden defaults are yellow.

A "Reset all defaults" menu item sets the base configuration back to factory.   

[stevefal]

For ETTR, the submenu settings being active with the main entry disabled is an exception and is not handled yet (they are dimmed if the auto ETTR is disabled, just like all other submenu entries).

I don't understand this. Why should subitems be un-dimmed if the parent is disabled?

For fonts, the main reason I've chosen a smaller one was that submenu entries tend to be a little more verbose than top-level entries, so having a small font helps maintaining the alignment for the name and value columns.

I recognize the issue, but the difference in size is jarring. If so many small rows is acceptable, then how about making all rows small?

Another issue is that the grey icons are so dark they read as absent, and so parent items with grey icons look indented as well. I suggest making the grey icons lighter.

... and you have the full-size copies a few clicks away, in the submenu.

I understand the rationale, but it's an unfortunate compromise in look and usability (tiny fonts).

Getting to the root problem, is there any way I can help move ML towards proportionally spaced fonts? This would have tremendous benefits everywhere.

[a1ex]

There is an ETTR hint on the raw histogram that is computed according to auto ETTR settings, even if auto ETTR is turned off. It doesn't affect anything but that little number, but technically these settings do something (minor) even if the main entry is off.

Proportional fonts would be nice; the menu backend is no longer relying that much on fixed width fonts, so it would be more or less straightforward (but time consuming). The font for menu headers is already proportional.

[stevefal]

There is an ETTR hint on the raw histogram that is computed according to auto ETTR settings, even if auto ETTR is turned off. It doesn't affect anything but that little number, but technically these settings do something (minor) even if the main entry is off.

This kind of exception bakes confusion into the UI. In this case the ETTR parent is neither an <only navigation> node nor a <master setting> node. Every layer of new features with UI quirks digs the usability hole deeper. If any developer out there wants to take on a challenging project to branch and normalize the ML UI system, I will work with you. It is solvable.

Proportional fonts would be nice; the menu backend is no longer relying that much on fixed width fonts, so it would be more or less straightforward (but time consuming). The font for menu headers is already proportional.

Is it time-consuming grunt work, or complicated work? Is there foundational work that could be done to enable others to help? Figure that moving to proportional fonts will reclaim 20-25% horizontal text space. And people will be shocked how great things will look.

Updated "modules": . The previous was a little too small relative to the rest.

[kukysimon]

Hi Alex, please , YES;)... a few custom preset config buttons or a similar option to activate such config presets .... , where all these many settings can be memorized and saved for a specific setup  on a  lens or shoot setup/ mode etc etc , so that those 15-20 settings turn on with just a push  of may be a button (..or two) , is a real serious feature . on my sets when everyone needs my attention all the time, and when you stare at the ML menus making changes ,  hoping you are not doing any one of those wrong , it's crazy dangerous sometimes , since people continuously come and talk to you the photographer.
imagine all the wedding photographers (massive market ) out there who would miss a moment they could never redo again.
i would have these presets for my own shoots, see below , with  aspect ratio , cropbars/cropmarks , heighth to width setting, global draw, histogram , zebra,focus peak, etc etc etc:

-max res with raw in 1:2.67  24f/s
-max res with raw in 1:2.67  50f/s
-max res with raw in crop mode 24f/s
-Max res in 264 ( by the way is the bitrate change option for 264 not existing  in the august 21 version?)
-Max res in 264 50f/s

i switch between these setting often, and its such a waste of time to always do these changes with so many steps.

may be another cool feature could be to be able to save the settings and pass them on to others as well in a way.
you could then easily make a max res setting for a new alpha version to download for all of us non programmers.

with my external monitor its also hard to remember which setting make what work on it, since its not at all the same feed as the internal lcd gets.
there would be for sure  a setting i would save for the still very few little things that do work with my smallHD monitor ...

[Marsu42]

(moved to feature request)

[Audionut]

Here I would have Focus Peak, Spotmeter and False color completely removed from the menu.
With the main functions disabled, who cares that the settings have been modified, as they are not affecting current functionality.

That would clean up all this clutter also for instance.

[a1ex]

My "workhorse" settings:



Is the clutter still an issue with latest builds? (since the new fonts)

[Audionut]

No.

And it's better with those submenu items hidden when the main function is off 

[arrinkiiii]

Yes, indeed 

[1%]

I dig the little blue arrows.