Author Topic: 7D Raw Thread  (Read 295415 times)

Tiko

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1475 on: October 08, 2013, 10:34:53 AM »
@Tiko,

Awesome quality man!!! Really! Did you use any sharpening in post? Lenses? You didn't use a VAF filter right?

No sharpening, no vaf, only color grading.. I love the images I get. Unbelievable! ^^
I used a Sigma 17-50 2.8 os, Canon's nifty fifty and an old M42 135 2.8 I got from ebay for 20 bucks.

Everything's shot around f5 with ISO640.

- Tiko

pit3k

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1476 on: October 08, 2013, 03:38:23 PM »
Since no one knows the best ISO to record in RAW i found this,

http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/ISO

But i must say more confuse i stay  ???


But it doesn't say anything about iso in RAW video, only about the old h264 8 bit codec in video mode.
There is something about shooting raw in picture mode though, and i think you should use this settings (full stop, meaning 100, 200, 400 etc).

But I need some brainac (like a1ex) to confirm it :)

a1ex

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1477 on: October 08, 2013, 03:39:28 PM »
Why not try ETTR?

pit3k

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1478 on: October 08, 2013, 03:42:30 PM »
Why not try ETTR?

That's what I would do. But just for pure clarification I think there should be an answer for the question of the best, and native iso of 7d.   

This is something I found on canonrumors forum, post by "jrista"

Quote
This is a mistaken notion based on the behavior of Canon ISO settings and their noise characteristics. Canon uses a 1/3rd stop push/pull approach to achieving non-full stop ISO settings, which can result in some third-stops being less noisy and others being more noisy than their full-stop neighbors. To explain:

Canon sensors use ISO 100 as base ISO, and all of the standard full-stop ISO settings are indeed native. Third-stop settings are actually achieved by futzing with the exposure a bit, rather than directly amplifying the signal to those levels. For example, ISO 125 is actually ISO 100 with a 1/3rd stop underexposure, which is then digitally corrected, or "pushed" up to the correct exposure. ISO 160 is similar, only that it is ISO 200 with a 1/3rd stop overexposure which is then digitally "pulled" down to the correct exposure. ISO 125, since it is a digital push of 1/3rd of a stop, tends to be noisier than either ISO 160 or ISO 200. Conversely, ISO 160, since it is a digital pull of 1/3rd of a stop, tends to be less noisy than ISO 100. The consequence of this approach is that you lose 1/3rd of a stop DR for those intermediate stops of ISO. A third of a stop change in DR is rarely ever an issue in the very vast majority of circumstances though, especially at the lower ISO settings where you have more DR to work with anyway (which is the only time it exhibits...higher ISO's above 800 use an alternative approach.)

People who have noticed this quirk in Canon's noise behavior have made the rather naive assumption that it means Canon sensors actually have a base ISO of 160. On the contrary, when the actual ISO mechanics are investigated, Canon sensors most definitely have a true or native ISO 100, as well as a native ISO 200, 400, 800, and 1600 at the very least, and potentially more depending on the model. All third-stop ISO settings are achieved via push/pull, and at lower ISO settings that results in oscillating noise characteristics. This quirky approach to third-stop ISO settings is actually something I hope Canon moves away from when they move to a new 180nm fabrication process. A true sensor-level analog amplification to all ISO settings would be a better approach


a1ex

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1479 on: October 08, 2013, 04:08:43 PM »
If there would be a "best" one, there wouldn't be a setting for it in menu (the camera would always use that one).

The one chosen by ETTR should be optimal (in the sense of constrained optimization - you choose the slowest shutter speed, the lowest SNR you are OK with, and how many highlights you are OK with throwing away). If you find a situation where ETTR result is not optimal, report a bug and show what setting was chosen by ETTR, what you think it's best for your situation, and a side-by-side comparison that shows the difference.

pit3k

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1480 on: October 08, 2013, 04:14:02 PM »
If there would be a "best" one, there wouldn't be a setting for it in menu (the camera would always use that one).

The one chosen by ETTR should be optimal (in the sense of constrained optimization - you choose the slowest shutter speed, the lowest SNR you are OK with, and how many highlights you are OK with throwing away). If you find a situation where ETTR result is not optimal, report a bug and show what setting was chosen by ETTR, what you think it's best for your situation, and a side-by-side comparison that shows the difference.

Will do.

1%

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1481 on: October 08, 2013, 04:26:32 PM »
ETTR + Dual combo is getting pretty good for stills.

For raw I'd check the histogram and adjust accordingly if not doing ettr.

Deem

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1482 on: October 08, 2013, 06:25:19 PM »
Last build 9.29 is very good :)

Deem

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1483 on: October 08, 2013, 06:38:08 PM »

tech411

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Re: 7D Raw Thread 9/29 .fir?
« Reply #1484 on: October 08, 2013, 07:30:32 PM »
May we have a .fir to go with the 9/29 build?

szigiszmund

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1485 on: October 08, 2013, 07:37:02 PM »
I made a short video to show the high write  speed of canon 7d.
To get the camera to wright at 90,4mb i lowered the fps to 3.

1%

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1486 on: October 08, 2013, 10:09:50 PM »
Re: fir
I'll have to make one

dutchguy

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1487 on: October 08, 2013, 10:52:41 PM »
Is it possible to make a version in which H264 also works? I tried the 29-9 build, but it freezes at the end. It would be great since we would be able to use both H264 and RAW.

I also tried to use the old alpha2 version to use H264, but that version does not remember the settings, so that is quite annoying since the default settings do not work for my card.

DragonFlame

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1488 on: October 09, 2013, 12:15:18 AM »
I made a short video to show the high write  speed of canon 7d.
To get the camera to wright at 90,4mb i lowered the fps to 3.

Am I missing something here, the camera even if it says it's writing at around 90mbs it's clearly not actually writing that much to the card when you are recording at 3fps.
The file size right before the speed indicator is a good example of this, it took you 11 seconds to write 92mb or raw footage.

@1% What exactly is that speed indicator, i was under the impression it was the actual write speed to the card, is it a theoretical max speed or something?
Shouldn't it be telling us in MBs how much is actually being written?

pit3k

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1489 on: October 09, 2013, 12:29:08 AM »
Is it possible to make a version in which H264 also works? I tried the 29-9 build, but it freezes at the end. It would be great since we would be able to use both H264 and RAW.

I also tried to use the old alpha2 version to use H264, but that version does not remember the settings, so that is quite annoying since the default settings do not work for my card.

This one works for me:

While 1% keeps doing his magic, I undefined fps override so h264 video is working. I have a videoshoot coming up tomorrow and i planned to shoot h264 so the render it's done before i die, and the audio features are going to be of big help.

Here's the build (FPS override is disabled) https://www.dropbox.com/s/um1hpcv7y4vq3hz/ML7DFPSOVERRIDEOFF.zip

1%

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1490 on: October 09, 2013, 05:04:04 AM »
Quote
It would be great since we would be able to use both H264 and RAW.

I made FPS override stop before H264 stops so as long as you don't get a card full, 4gb or buffer stop it won't freeze. This is all that can be done for now.

Quote
Shouldn't it be telling us in MBs how much is actually being written?

Its supposed to be. Maybe at such low FPS it messes up.. or the write would really be 90Mb/s if there was enough data. Its universal and the same as in the repo.

a1ex

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1491 on: October 09, 2013, 06:15:50 AM »
I don't see any mistake in the screenshot. It wrote 75MB at 88.4MB/s with a duty cycle of 10%.

OSCA LEE

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1492 on: October 09, 2013, 07:16:14 AM »
I think I will hold off on the raw right now..I am not getting anything close to what you guys are shooting....

dutchguy

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1493 on: October 09, 2013, 12:09:49 PM »
This one works for me:
Thanks, that one seems to work for me!

Quote from: 1%
I made FPS override stop before H264 stops so as long as you don't get a card full, 4gb or buffer stop it won't freeze. This is all that can be done for now.
In which version did you fix this? I guess it's not in the 29-9 version yet?

tonybeccar

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1494 on: October 09, 2013, 03:52:15 PM »
Question: So if we DON'T enable FPS override then we can shoot H264 with NO problems? It WONT freeze if card is full or 4gb limit or buffer?

1%

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1495 on: October 09, 2013, 04:37:21 PM »
Its not supposed to.  Also has dual iso preview. Its committed but britcom didn't build it yet. I mainly think it was freezing on him because he had wav enabled and it was eating the memory.

britom

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1496 on: October 09, 2013, 05:10:21 PM »
7D Builds with RAW support: http://bit.ly/14Llzda

mucher

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1497 on: October 09, 2013, 05:51:33 PM »
I dont understand very well how the black points / white points / dynamic ranges are decided for the respective cameras, and how is the lumination level converted to bit depth. I have not enough knowledge to understand codes. :-\

1%

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Re: 7D Raw Thread
« Reply #1498 on: October 09, 2013, 07:25:28 PM »
Yep, there are 7D nightlies:

http://ml.bot-fly.com/

tech411

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Re: 7D Raw Thread - bitrom latest builds: ?? .fir file ??
« Reply #1499 on: October 09, 2013, 07:47:44 PM »
Prefer to chose ML on powerup. May we have a .fir version in each build?