Author Topic: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3  (Read 18794 times)

phiknight

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ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« on: August 03, 2013, 09:37:30 PM »
Forgive my ignorance, I looked around the forum and couldnt find a specific answer. Is it possible, now or maybe in the future, to record the raw files straight onto the Ninja instead of using the CF 1000x cards? I just do not understand the technical aspects enough to know if this is a possible work around.
Also, huge thanks to the ML team for all the work they have done here.

Midphase

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 11:49:22 PM »
Not possible.

phiknight

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 01:18:26 AM »
Thanks for the reply. I figured as much but thought Id ask.

jt20194

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 03:45:00 PM »
Since I already have the Ninja 2 and upgraded my firmware for the 5D Mark III to 1.2.1 I have been hoping that an update will be coming out so that I can load the RAW module using firmware 1.2.1 on my Canon 5D III.  It would be great to simply shoot RAW or use the Ninja 2 (4.2.2 ProRes) without having to change firmware. 

pavelpp

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 04:12:08 PM »
not raw

DjJuvan

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2013, 12:32:13 PM »
I'm still curious why ML isn't based on the newer version of 5dmk3 firmwire? Did they block ML somehow in newer version? It would be great to get clean HDMI out while doing RAW shooting. Backup footage if anything goes wrong.

AnotherDave

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2013, 04:58:07 PM »
It just isn't a priority at the moment - honestly, the new "features" with 1.2.1 are cool... but I'd take raw recording over 10-Bit 4:2:2 any day!

I'm sure it will be worked on as soon as everything becomes more stable, and a lot of the bugs are worked out.  Putting it on there now would likely be a setback.

Midphase

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2013, 07:19:15 PM »
There are also some negatives about 1.2.1, for instance if you use 3rd party batteries, the camera will not display the remaining life of the battery correctly.

igarti

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2013, 07:43:47 PM »
Just in the same case.

Waiting for the 1.2.1 ML version. Should be nice to record RAW or 10bit Apple 422 HQ alternatively. Actually I've ML installed in my 5D2 with RAW Modules and waiting for the 1.2.1 ML version for my 5D3. I,ve to say that in 5D2 RAW recording in the 128 1000x KomputerBay the maximum frames recorded without dropping frames is around 260 frames at 1827 x 858 (2.20:1). Is that normal? Should I expect Unlimited or longer recordings inside 5D3 with ML installed?

Anyway, Thanks so much to the ML people for the tremendous possibilities brought to us.
5D MKII & MKIII_2.8.70-200_24-70_2.8_Zoom4N_Rode and Sennheiser mics.

Crashless

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 10:17:40 PM »
You obviously can't get RAW video out of the HDMI port, but would it be possible to do something like Sony's SLOG2?

Since you've figured out where to grab the RAW data, and the new official firmware has the hooks for clean HDMI out, it would be absolutely amazing to crunch that RAW signal into a 10-bit HDMI stream and record on an Atomos Ninja 2 at DNxHD220 or ProRes 220.

This solves the CF size/speed issue and could get nearly the same results at a fraction of the workflow and data rate.

I can't be the only one around looking at current RAW workflows thinking it's nothing but a nightmare for large-scale productions.

reddeercity

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2013, 12:17:38 AM »


I,ve to say that in 5D2 RAW recording in the 128 1000x KomputerBay the maximum frames recorded without dropping frames is around 260 frames at 1827 x 858 (2.20:1). Is that normal?
NO ! that is not normal, i have 5D2 with Lexar 1000x 32GB & Lexar 1000x 64GB Cards
and on the 32 GB Card i record at 1856x1004 23.976p (1.85:1) @ 75.0MB/s until full = 9800 Frames= 6.9 Minutes
On the Lexar 1000x 64GB  captures at 1856x1004 23.976p (1.85:1) 75.0MB/s to 42 GB mark then stops = 14145 Frames = 9.8 Minutes
In 3x Crop mode i capture at 2048x940 23.976p @ 78.6MB/s until full on 32GB lexar 1000x
i have not tried to fill the 64GB card i Crop mode yet.
At 1880x940 23.976p (2:1) i can record continuous on both card until full.

Format your card in camera, this should help with speed problem,
I format my cards every time before i record Raw footage, it make a differences
whether i get continuous or not!  :)   

igarti

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2013, 02:11:46 PM »
Thank you reddeercity,

I always format he card inside the MKII before recording too but the max I benchmark is around 48MB/s never 75. could it be a Card problem? or any other settings in the ML menu?

Thanks so much
igarti
5D MKII & MKIII_2.8.70-200_24-70_2.8_Zoom4N_Rode and Sennheiser mics.

reddeercity

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2013, 11:41:03 PM »
Thank you reddeercity,

I always format he card inside the MKII before recording too but the max I benchmark is around 48MB/s never 75. could it be a Card problem? or any other settings in the ML menu?

Thanks so much
igarti

I don't really worry able the bench mark test, i have low reading with it all so !
the following its how my camera is Setup :

in Canon menu Jpeg = small
        Auto power off  = Off
                         LCD  = Manual
In the Magic Lantern Menu:
FPS Over Ride Set to Exact, in my case 23.976
in Raw submenu:
Choose frame size in my case 1856x1004 1.85:1
Preview set to Auto or Hacked
Small Hacks  = On
Recording frame = White rect.
Featues + = On

That's it, so if you still have problems  format your card on a PC if you can.
But do not do a Quick Format , you what to a low level format to re-order the data blocks on the card with 32kb Allocation units.
then install ML back on card with the latest Raw module. load card back in
camera  setup your raw shooting options etc...
Then format the card in camera .
You should be able to record raw.
I hope this helps :) 


igarti

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2013, 02:13:06 PM »
Many thanks ;)

Until next monday I'll be away. As soon as I'll be back I'll tray all those settings.!
5D MKII & MKIII_2.8.70-200_24-70_2.8_Zoom4N_Rode and Sennheiser mics.

eatstoomuchjam

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2013, 09:49:04 PM »
I'm pretty sure that 1.2.1 does not allow for 10-bit recording via HDMI.  It allows 8-bit 4:2:2.  Your recorder may be recording with 10 bits, but 2 of them aren't being used.

Crashless

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2013, 01:28:11 AM »
I'm pretty sure that 1.2.1 does not allow for 10-bit recording via HDMI.  It allows 8-bit 4:2:2.  Your recorder may be recording with 10 bits, but 2 of them aren't being used.

That's what the spec sheet says, yes. But I wasn't talking about what it does I was talking about what I want it to do.

Even limited to 8-bit, the dynamic range of the raw video, flattened out the HDMI port would be VERY compelling.

Am I dreaming?

Midphase

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2013, 09:53:35 AM »
Yes, you are dreaming.  ;D


I think the primary issue with the 5D is the speed of the CPU. Apparently it's quite slow and asking it to perform any calculation beyond just throwing raw data at the card is beyond its capabilities.

What you're asking would definitely require some sort of real-time image processing to convert the raw data to something that could be outputted through the HDMI port and retain as much of the visual fidelity that raw captures.

All of the developers would seem to agree that the CPU can't deal with that type of processing....then again if they can figure out how to reverse engineer some of the other dedicated image processing chips, it might be possible.

Crashless

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2013, 11:08:39 PM »
Sadness.  :'(

That makes a lot of sense. I guess I can only hope the state of RAW workflows improves.

Thanks for the reply.

fanan7

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2013, 05:28:09 PM »
I've been thinking about this too (even though my thoughts are a bit more modest!)

what I've been wondering is if it would be possible to use the atomos ninja as a way to have a "real" playback option and some reference footage that I could edit with straightaway (while waiting for all the post workflow necessary with the raw files).

in my mind (if it worked) it would be much like using a video assist when you shoot film: a low res version (often mini dv) of what your shooting just for reference and playback; i'm not bothered with compression issues and I don't need a "clean" HDMI out since I would throw away all that footage anyway... it would be just something practical that I could use for my clients to see what I'm shooting.

would this be possible with the current build of ML raw?

thanks!

Midphase

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2013, 08:06:26 PM »
Sigh...., yes, you can do that, and if you looked just two threads below this one, you'd have seen the exact same question answered there too.

Foxfender

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Re: ML RAW + Atomos Ninja 5D3
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2021, 11:42:26 AM »
Hi! Now that The Ninja records to ProRes Raw, that would be awesome wouldn’t it be?