Author Topic: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)  (Read 938340 times)

escho

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #750 on: November 02, 2013, 11:37:46 PM »
what do you mean by the next nightly..
5dmk3 had no mlv rec module added til now.. so this means that its added now? am i right?
thx.

They talked about 60D, not about 5DIII  ;)

Edgar

swinxx

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #751 on: November 03, 2013, 12:47:02 AM »
I know but why can i see all the changes in the changelog ??

a1ex

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11480
  • 5D Mark Free
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #752 on: November 03, 2013, 07:22:39 AM »
The changes you see were not hand-picked.

enliten

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #753 on: November 03, 2013, 07:05:30 PM »
Hey guys,

Hope you're all having a good weekend.

Is it possible to move the crop area inbetween frames whilst capturing video?
If so then would it be possible to alternate frame locations every second frame so they can be stitched in post.

I'm just thinking that this method could allow a lower frame rate to have a greater aspect ratio.

Cheers,

Ben

g3gg0

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3109
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #754 on: November 03, 2013, 11:48:00 PM »
possible and would be possible to stitch in post processing simple.
Help us with datasheets - Help us with register dumps
magic lantern: 1Magic9991E1eWbGvrsx186GovYCXFbppY, server expenses: [email protected]
ONLY donate for things we have done, not for things you expect!

Toffifee

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • 5D Mark III Happy tester
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #755 on: November 07, 2013, 08:16:16 AM »
What's the news on audio implementation?  :)
Haven't seen any comments about it for a while

g3gg0

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3109
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #756 on: November 07, 2013, 12:54:27 PM »
nothing new yet.
i am still waiting for someone who is going to implement it. ;)
Help us with datasheets - Help us with register dumps
magic lantern: 1Magic9991E1eWbGvrsx186GovYCXFbppY, server expenses: [email protected]
ONLY donate for things we have done, not for things you expect!

ChadMuffin

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
  • RAWsome - 5D3
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #757 on: November 07, 2013, 02:31:54 PM »
What if it is just put in how it is or was previously? At least just for now, because shorter clips can work for dialogue or give a starting point for scratch audio for a music video. Even if they are slightly off. It may also inspire people with more knowledge to implement it properly. I sure have no idea.

maxotics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 531
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #758 on: November 07, 2013, 03:09:46 PM »
What's the news on audio implementation?  :)
Haven't seen any comments about it for a while
I think it's because no one wants to make the sacrifice to make MLV a success.

It doesn't matter how good MLV is as a technical spec, and how much potential it has, it requires politics (buy-ins) from other devs and users to be a success.   I don't see it happening any time soon because the simple fact is MLV requires precious bandwidth from the camera.  It's a trade-off.  Do I think it's worth it?  Yes.  But even my few attempts to help MLV gain traction have met with failure because the devs don't want to spend time on anything else but work on some new, cool feature (even devs who should want MLV to succeed).  Users keep asking for new things and the devs can't say no, or group together and prioritize.  Because they work for free I can't say anything without attracting a lot of sycophantic support for the devs--which is misdirected. 

On a bright note, ML is a hack that should be dead (because it's a steep development learning curve), yet it lives on, and grows.  So who knows, maybe someone will implement an audio solution tomorrow.

RenatoPhoto

  • Moderators
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • 5DM3 / 7D
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #759 on: November 07, 2013, 03:09:54 PM »
What if it is just put in how it is or was previously?

That would make me VERY, VERY happy!  ;D ;D
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

1%

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5936
  • 600D/6D/50D/EOSM/7D
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #760 on: November 07, 2013, 03:25:42 PM »
heh, 5DIII is the only cam that can even close to pull off audio. Maybe could get away with it a little if it wrote at the same time.

maxotics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 531
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #761 on: November 07, 2013, 03:58:11 PM »
I did some quick Googling and see someone has done some minor hacks to a Teac.   An Arduino project is possible, though the sample rate would probably be very low.  Maybe some other 16/32bit DIY board? I think the ultimate solution is not to record camera audio, but to link up an audio recorder and the camera through some sort of time-code or click-track.  Either

A.) Hacked Audio recorder spits out timecode that is burned into the MLV while shooting through USB, the mic input, flash connector...? (thoughts anyone?)
B.) Camera passes a click track to the audio recorder that maybe starts with an easy to synch pattern, like da, da, dum, dum, da dum, da dum. etc. 
C.) MLV software on the backend synchs up both streams using timecode or clicktrack, etc.

Any of the master devs here could do this, if time and money were no object :)

For it to happen, someone would have to project manage the thing.  Get a time commitment from g3gg0 on the MLV stuff, then one of the camera devs, Alex or 1% or both, and then another dev to work on the audio recorder part and finally, we can't forget about $$$ so each dev can have a complete setup for testing.  Also, you want testers, documentation, and some junior devs to assist the master devs.




1%

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5936
  • 600D/6D/50D/EOSM/7D
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #762 on: November 07, 2013, 04:04:28 PM »
Well right now clapper board works for me and syncs up perfectly. I can shoot raw on 7D or 50D and then record audio on 600D or 6D, etc.

maxotics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 531
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #763 on: November 07, 2013, 04:22:10 PM »
Well right now clapper board works for me and syncs up perfectly. I can shoot raw on 7D or 50D and then record audio on 600D or 6D, etc.

Me too!

Maybe my point is though the devs are maxed out, stuff like this can get done, IMHO, if people show enough interest by putting in the time to organize it and make it happen.  You don't need to be a dev to do project management, or raise money, or administrate bug reporting software, etc.  If a user asks you for something you can get done in a day or two, and it seems interesting, you do it.  But if they ask you to do something that would take weeks, why do it?  You get the same thanks for the first feature as the second.   And we can't forget, the dev is also doing stuff HE wants.

So if users want audio in this way they need to band together so there is more reward, challenge AND they need to make sure the dev isn't doing all the work. 

1%

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5936
  • 600D/6D/50D/EOSM/7D
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #764 on: November 07, 2013, 04:27:09 PM »
but the problem is you're asking near the impossible, most cameras can't deal with writing the video alone, much less an audio stream with it. g3gg0 did this with MLV and it has issues just from the meta data being written.

maxotics

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 531
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #765 on: November 07, 2013, 04:43:43 PM »
but the problem is you're asking near the impossible, most cameras can't deal with writing the video alone, much less an audio stream with it. g3gg0 did this with MLV and it has issues just from the meta data being written.

Sorry, I'm not making myself clear.  If you could read a simple voltage spike from the mic input say, or flash, etc., then you can read 0s and 1s, right.  I don't know how high a frequency you need with, but lets say it's 10 times the frame rate for easy sampling, so you'd need to read at 240bits per second.  Okay, so you're reading 0s and 1s from whatever and in the mlv file you're writing either a 0 or 1 for each frame, which gives you a 24bit signature for each second.

At the same time, the recorder is also recording those 0s and 1s (click track) to say channel 4, or the channel 2, if you can live with mono.

Now, in the recorder you hack it to plug in a cable that sends out these spikes every 240 seconds (which are sampled down to 1 bit per frame).  You also program the recorder to send out a specific "smoke signal" once it's started, so it sends batches of 12 0s and 1s for the first few seconds, but in a way that you can match up later.

So when you load the MLV file, it builds a signature from the encoded click track.  It builds a signature from the audio file and then matches them up.  Once they're matched up other software would know where the audio starts and cut it to that point and put the start point in the MLV file which the NLE (thinking big here) would ultimately use to match up the video and audio track.

I'm extemporizing here, but that's the general idea.  You mount the hacked audio recorder on a cold-shoe, and maybe, if the dev is a real genius, the camera sends a signal to start and stop the audio recorder and then we're really farting through silk ;)

1%

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5936
  • 600D/6D/50D/EOSM/7D
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #766 on: November 07, 2013, 05:22:46 PM »
It might work, it might cause pink frames for non digicV :)

g3gg0

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3109
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #767 on: November 08, 2013, 11:02:51 PM »
i updated the pre built binaries.

seems to work fine with 60 fps video modes now.
i had some pink frames in this mode before.

can you check it, if it the writing rate is better? getting ~95 MiB/s most of the time now with 24 fps.
Help us with datasheets - Help us with register dumps
magic lantern: 1Magic9991E1eWbGvrsx186GovYCXFbppY, server expenses: [email protected]
ONLY donate for things we have done, not for things you expect!

KurtAugust

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 73
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #768 on: November 09, 2013, 09:51:15 AM »
For now I'm recording the audio beeps from the headphone output on my 5d3 to one channel of an audio recorder. Together with the time stamp of the raw file, this syncs up pretty well. Snap fingers in front of the lens when I can't use the clapper. Doable and you have a long audio recording which is nice on documentary shoots.

Still, would kill for in camera recording as well.
www.kurtaugustyns.com @HetRovendOog

Toffifee

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • 5D Mark III Happy tester
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #769 on: November 09, 2013, 10:58:17 PM »
Yeah, running dual system is of course a good solution, but it is less ideal for us (very) guerrilla filmmakers needs to have minimal gear.
Often when I film people while travelling they freeze up because of the size of my camera and sometimes results in awkward looking shots.
And I didn't even have that much, running a 5DM3 + 24-105, small handheld rig, shotgun mic, pre-amp.
I would love to try out a bare minimum gear set, with a z-finder + videomic pro. But it kind of depends on having in-camera audio.

I can't code, but I'd be very willing to test with my 5DM3!

g3gg0

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3109
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #770 on: November 10, 2013, 01:57:52 AM »
this time i added a lot of stuff to mlv_play, the module to view raw files in camera.

i will update the mlv_play post.
Help us with datasheets - Help us with register dumps
magic lantern: 1Magic9991E1eWbGvrsx186GovYCXFbppY, server expenses: [email protected]
ONLY donate for things we have done, not for things you expect!

g3gg0

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3109
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #771 on: November 10, 2013, 09:25:13 PM »
Then the last problem with MLV is batch tools...

using mlv_dump you can convert .mlv to .dng
anything else missing?
Help us with datasheets - Help us with register dumps
magic lantern: 1Magic9991E1eWbGvrsx186GovYCXFbppY, server expenses: [email protected]
ONLY donate for things we have done, not for things you expect!

swinxx

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #772 on: November 10, 2013, 10:45:56 PM »
Hi!

I have. 3 questions:
1. Can i convert a mlv with mlv_dump with a mac system?

2. canon 5d mk3 - When will mlv be available in the nightly..?
Cause it would be great to integrate it.. And the user can decide he will enabled the module or not...

3. can i playback mlv within a mac?

Midphase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 712
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #773 on: November 10, 2013, 11:33:52 PM »
Hi!

I have. 3 questions:
1. Can i convert a mlv with mlv_dump with a mac system?

2. canon 5d mk3 - When will mlv be available in the nightly..?
Cause it would be great to integrate it.. And the user can decide he will enabled the module or not...

3. can i playback mlv within a mac?

1.  http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9130.0

2. I think it might be time for mlv_rec to be included in all the nightly builds. Without it, users will continue not to use it as much and post-production development will continue to be behind.

3. I think we need a Mac version of this:  http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8447.0   

But really 2. is key here, until .mlv isn't in the hands of most ML users, there won't be a whole lot of reason for 3rd party devs (including Adobe) to support it. On the Mac, the best app by far is RAWMagic, and unfortunately it ain't getting updated so it might be time to make some noise!

1%

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5936
  • 600D/6D/50D/EOSM/7D
Re: Magic Lantern (RAW) Video format v2.0 (mlv_rec.mo)
« Reply #774 on: November 10, 2013, 11:40:11 PM »
I've been including it for a long while now.