Author Topic: Can we build a hardware solution for the sd card based cameras' write speed?  (Read 30201 times)

LeviBetz

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That's the trouble, all the EEs probably already make enough to afford 5D3s hahahaha

Would it help to pull apart the camera and take detailed photos of the chips? And write down the numbers?

ItsMeLenny

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Would it help to pull apart the camera and take detailed photos of the chips? And write down the numbers?

It may do LeviBetz. But I did further up in this post post links to this http://www.hansonphotodesign.com/canon-550d-repair/hB61A13E#h1dfa5a1e and then also a 550D sd card controller being sold on ebay.
I mean, pulling it apart is one way, but it's probably just safer to buy the sd card controller and go from there (see image for what the card controller is).
In that image I can't make out what the chip is on it, the IC chip or what not. Then on top of that, there are 3 different places different wires plug into. What each one is I do not know, what info the wires are sending I do not know either. Although one would obviously be power.
Regardless if I knew that information, I myself wouldn't be able to get anywhere with it :P
I'd still be interested in knowing that IC though.
But still, cheaper/safer to buy the sd controller off ebay or somewhere.

ItsMeLenny

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So I'm under the impression that square IC is either a Power Manager or a PWM controller, or whether they're the same thing even?
It's got written on it SC901524 and then 4VWRAV, whether that 2nd line is specs about it or not?
And in research I found all various kinds of things that I will list in a table here.

550D
-PartDescripCameras Sharing
Primary DSP/CPUDigic 4 CH4-6405Digic 4500D, 50D, 5DmkII, 7D, (other canon P&S)
Power manager, PWM controllerMB39C305BGA Chip Controller1000D, 40D, 450D, 500D, 50D
SC901524Square chip on the SD controller - 4VWRAV (Freescale Semiconductor, Inc)7D
Zoom driver, OIS driver, Mirror charge driverLV84011ch forward/reverse Motor Driver IC using D-MOS FET for output stage (SANYO)7D
Insulated-gate bipolar transistor8G133Strobe flash? (TOSHIBA)1000D, 40D, 500D, 50D, (other canon P&S)
Audio/video controller, all other chips64712
AA1900???wtf google images???500D, 7D, (other canon P&S)
AK4646Stereo CODEC with MIC/SPK-AMP (AKM)5DmkII, 7D, (other canon P&S)
BU97930LCD Driver1100D
System control processor, MCUTMP19A43CDXB 1000D, 1100D, 450D, 500D
BatteryLP-E8It's a Battery
LCDACX405AKM-7I've seen in places that these are Sony
ZOOMCanon 450D mirror boxThis is the whole shutter bit with the mirror in it1000D, 450D

Magic Lantern has a spec sheet for the stereo CODEC and it looks like it has some impressive stuff in it http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/_media/ak4646.pdf

Here's a canon tear down I also came across in my ventures http://www.chipworks.com/blog/recentteardowns/2012/07/06/inside-the-canon-rebel-t4i-dslr/ which may actually answer some of these parts as well. This is 650D not 550D, although I think they contain some similar bits, however not the card controller.

g3gg0

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600D detail photos: http://g3gg0.de/gallery/600D_closeup/

btw - i want a datasheet of this device.
anyone who can find out more about this device?
its not listed anywhere, just some internal lifetime lists from Analog Devices accessible from the web.
it seems its a custom chip, not disclosed anywhere. :((

i expect this to be the ADTG with a lot of CMOS readout timings and AD converter integrated.

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JohnBarlow

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This suggests its a LQFP64 type

http://www.uscomponent.com/a/AD80246BBCZ-AD80246XBCZ.html

600D detail photos: http://g3gg0.de/gallery/600D_closeup/

btw - i want a datasheet of this device.
anyone who can find out more about this device?
its not listed anywhere, just some internal lifetime lists from Analog Devices accessible from the web.
it seems its a custom chip, not disclosed anywhere. :((

i expect this to be the ADTG with a lot of CMOS readout timings and AD converter integrated.



ItsMeLenny

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I'd like to point out as well, each camera has a completely different SD board.
1100D looks like something from the 90's.

Can

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Has anyone thought about using the USB port in camera to hook up to an external SSD?

You would certainly need separate power for the drive, and an SSD that would provide sufficient write speed is affordable, but would it be possible to direct the camera to write to the hard drive through the USB interface rather than the SD card?

Chucho

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600D detail photos: http://g3gg0.de/gallery/600D_closeup/

btw - i want a datasheet of this device.
anyone who can find out more about this device?
its not listed anywhere, just some internal lifetime lists from Analog Devices accessible from the web.
it seems its a custom chip, not disclosed anywhere. :((

i expect this to be the ADTG with a lot of CMOS readout timings and AD converter integrated.



I't looks like its part of the AD800/AD802 family http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD800_802.pdf


http://ystjt.en.seekic.com/product/integrated_circuits_ics/AD80246BBCZ.html

1%

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Yea, the sheet mentions NRZ.. probably another canon customization of off the shelf product.

dlrpgmsvc

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Has anyone thought about using the USB port in camera to hook up to an external SSD?

You would certainly need separate power for the drive, and an SSD that would provide sufficient write speed is affordable, but would it be possible to direct the camera to write to the hard drive through the USB interface rather than the SD card?
You cannot use usb because it is too slow
If you think it's impossible, you have lost beforehand

xNiNELiVES

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Is this issue dead? I hope we can find a way...

ItsMeLenny

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Is this issue dead? I hope we can find a way...

Not sure what you mean by is the issue dead, it will always be an issue.
There is just no electrical hardware engineers to spend their time on it,
That's if it is even possible.

xNiNELiVES

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Not sure what you mean by is the issue dead, it will always be an issue.
There is just no electrical hardware engineers to spend their time on it,
That's if it is even possible.

Well Im almost sure its possible it's just that it may be really hard to make it possible ;D.
What I wanted to ask is: is this thread dead? Is there any research being done. I would love to help it's just that we need someone from Canon to answer some questions. If anyone has any connections that would be good. Or obviousley an electrical engineer. I feel like we should get a kickstarter started for donations towards a 6D for the testing to be done on. Then again I understand it's not just the 6d but all SD based cameras. The T2i would be a good place to start. I've heard on this thread that each camera uses a somewhat different IC so one IC may not work on another. Or am I wrong?

ilguercio

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You are sure it's not impossible but yet you got no idea what you are talking about, i guess.
Yes, on paper you could change everything in the camera and rewrite the whole FW up to your liking but it would probably take years and be utterly expensive.
Again, what should we kickstart since we (them) got nothing to work on?
And yes, i am pretty sure a Canon engineer would be nice to have but i doubt it could be our ultimate problem solver, provided we find one who wants to share his knowledge with "us".
Canon EOS 6D, 60D, 50D.
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Can

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You cannot use usb because it is too slow

I could have sworn there was mention somewhere here of the theoretical possibility of the camera's USB interface reaching UHS-1 speeds...

Also - "USB 2.0: Released in April 2000. Added higher maximum signaling rate of 480 Mbit/s (effective throughput up to 35 MB/s or 280 Mbit/s)" - too slow? Unless of course the camera's interface is made to be incapable of such speeds.

And maybe, just maybe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go

dlrpgmsvc

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I could have sworn there was mention somewhere here of the theoretical possibility of the camera's USB interface reaching UHS-1 speeds...

Also - "USB 2.0: Released in April 2000. Added higher maximum signaling rate of 480 Mbit/s (effective throughput up to 35 MB/s or 280 Mbit/s)" - too slow? Unless of course the camera's interface is made to be incapable of such speeds.

And maybe, just maybe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go

Even if you will ever manage to hack the on camera usb, you will face another problem:
Usb speeds ratings are considered as 'burst' speeds, not continuous! This is why firewire was developed, assuring continuous high speeds.
If you think it's impossible, you have lost beforehand

a1ex

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Last time I've checked, I was getting around 10MB/s when copying pictures from the camera via USB.

Which is not that bad if you add it to the existing 20, no?

xNiNELiVES

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Not a bad idea actually...

The hard thing would be writing random frames from the buffer to the usb storage and then merging the frames with the frames on the SD Card. Or would it not? I'm speculating, I don't want to assume anything.

I'm guessing though that the frames would be merged in post production, not in camera right?

a1ex

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Yes, it requires changing the file format.

The same trick can be used on 5D3 (recording on CF and SD at the same time, with a 20MB/s theoretical speed boost).

Can

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Wouldn't that also lighten the load on the SD buffer, perhaps increasing the #of frames?  ;D

xNiNELiVES

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Yes, it requires changing the file format.

The same trick can be used on 5D3 (recording on CF and SD at the same time, with a 20MB/s theoretical speed boost).

Does this trick work with the 5D2? What speed (mb/s) would be obtained by doing this on this particular camera?

ItsMeLenny

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No more mentions of kickstarter, PLEASE.

6D has a slightly faster SD bottleneck compared to some other cameras.
http://a1ex.magiclantern.fm/bleeding-edge/raw/raw-chart.png

I feel like we should get a kickstarter started for donations towards a 6D for the testing to be done on.
I'm guessing you own the 6D as to mention it. The way to help would be to tear it apart, which I am sure nobody is willing to do to their cameras.

For the record, I own a 550D. And no I haven't taken it apart, nor am I willing to. I'm always on the lookout for a 2nd hand cheap one, but they're all over $500.

xNiNELiVES

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I've pretty much given up now. The crew here has done a great job optimizing the 6D.

But the saying is, "You can't polish poop". The 6D will never obtain continuous high resolution raw video. I'm going to buy a 5D mark II.

Can

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I would welcome the extra 10Mb/s if you guys could manage it.


Can

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Is this anything like a possibility?  ;D

And is there anything I can do to be helpful?