Author Topic: 50D Raw video  (Read 865679 times)

thorstone137

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2400 on: July 23, 2013, 05:37:26 AM »
Try this one: https://bitbucket.org/andy600/andy50d/downloads/raw2dng.exe

Ugh.. So I did some more shooting today and this evening, and my first 12 or so takes convert just fine. Just now I got half way through a batch of 15 takes I took this evening right a dusk and half way through I started getting that interlacing method not support thing again..

Raw2cDng seems to be working.. I'm not sure if it's a raw2dng bug or my RAW files?

thorstone137

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2401 on: July 23, 2013, 05:58:01 AM »
While looking a some low light work in ACR I'm coming across a lot of blue artifacts.. Any guidance on what causes these and how to avoid them?

artiswar

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2402 on: July 23, 2013, 06:58:41 AM »
Grades from today:






ultramaze

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2403 on: July 23, 2013, 08:00:32 AM »
Grades from today:





dude! cant wait to see this! looks gorgeous!

savale

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2404 on: July 23, 2013, 03:06:08 PM »
@artiswar the upper ones are the original shots right? a question: did you underexpose the images on purpose?

rockfallfilms

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2405 on: July 23, 2013, 04:07:02 PM »
A local festival was on so I shot some video with the 50D using Magic Lantern Raw.

A bit of moire crept in here and there but it's not overly distracting. Also some shots could benefit from de-noising as I may have increased the shadows too much. I'm still trying to optimise my shooting and post workflow.


- Used Tragic Lantern by 1%
- Shot at 1584x892 and upscaled to 1080

- DNG's extracted with RAWMagic 1.0 Beta 7
- Tamron 17-50mm f2.8

Logish grade in ACR, rendered out to Prores 444 and then applied a custom LUT in Resolve with a little sharpening. I might try the Resolve BMD Film workflow next.

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2406 on: July 23, 2013, 04:53:07 PM »
Latest Magic Lantern and Tragic Lantern 2.0 builds are up:

Magic Lantern (Unified with raw):- https://bitbucket.org/andy600/andy50d/downloads

Tragic Lantern 2.0:- https://bitbucket.org/andy600/tl50d/downloads

Fixes:-

Raw histogram - Highlight warning dots are back + Small speed-up.
Zebra - minor tweaks

(As ever, check first to see if GregoryOfManhatten has uploaded a newer Unified build before using mine.)
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

goldenchild9to5

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2407 on: July 23, 2013, 08:36:07 PM »
A local festival was on so I shot some video with the 50D using Magic Lantern Raw.

A bit of moire crept in here and there but it's not overly distracting. Also some shots could benefit from de-noising as I may have increased the shadows too much. I'm still trying to optimise my shooting and post workflow.


- Used Tragic Lantern by 1
- Shot at 1584x892 and upscaled to 1080

- DNG's extracted with RAWMagic 1.0 Beta 7
- Tamron 17-50mm f2.8

Logish grade in ACR, rendered out to Prores 444 and then applied a custom LUT in Resolve with a little sharpening. I might try the Resolve BMD Film workflow next.

Very nice footage looks like it was shot on a Blackmagic Cinema Camera..  The problem with the resolve BMD Film workflow is that Resolve doesn't de-bayer as efficiently as (ACR) I've been testing for a while. 

rockfallfilms

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2408 on: July 23, 2013, 08:50:59 PM »
Very nice footage looks like it was shot on a Blackmagic Cinema Camera..  The problem with the resolve BMD Film workflow is that Resolve doesn't de-bayer as efficiently as (ACR) I've been testing for a while. 

Cheers for the feedback.

Yeah I did have a go a while back with Resolve and wasn't too impressed but the new version is supposed to be out any day now so I'm hoping they have improved the debayer.

If someone could make a true log film profile for ACR then that would be a start, I've done a close approximation preset but I doubt I'm harnessing all the available DR from the dng, I don't know enough about log curves.

An even better option would be to convert to LOG when doing the initial conversion of the .RAW files and render a proxy too.

How's Cineform's debayer? has anyone given that a thorough testing?

rommex

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moire and all
« Reply #2409 on: July 23, 2013, 09:25:13 PM »
Hey 50D RAW community!

I was the guy who brought up those ugly aliasing+moire pictures some time ago )) and even was referred to as a "moire gang" man )) so I continue to explore into the issue.

Let me tell you I love my ML'ed 50D. But the issue of aliasing (whenever I some fine details / textures fall into the frame) still bothers me. And I try to find ways of workaround.

According to the theory, the problem happens when the fineness of the details in your frame comes close to the distance between the most near pixels. In the case of 50D, it's 0.0140783 mm. Rough (and over-simplified) solution is to blur the image in those small details while keeping larger details intact.

What do I do?

First, I use the aperture values out of the sweet mid spot of a lens. Basically it's either wide open or completely shut.
Secondly, I use some old manual lens (a guy in Ukraine does Canon EF mounts for old Olympus and Minolta lenses) and they lose some sharpness.
Thirdly, I use a stills photography Cokin add-on and insert a cheap Chinese ND2 filter in front of my lenses to lose some sharpness.

There is yet another method -- to de-focus your lens from the area with problematic details.
And I'd like to suggest one tool to make this de-focusing slightly more scientific.

It's a free application for Android that I wrote last winter. It does 2 things:
- calculates DOF (nothing special)
- calculates the degree of blurriness out of DOF

It gives a specific parameter that is called "Min Detail" that shows how much any object is blurred that is out of DOF (that is, de-focused). So whenever you have fine details / fabrics make sure that you take exact focus from that and that Min Detail parameter for that distance is not less than the real size of a detail / pattern unit.

Will not go into detail here more, as I'm not sure if a lot of people will find this usefull...

The app is here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.kadru.dev.visualdof2
The help info is here http://dev.kadru.net

goldenchild9to5

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2410 on: July 23, 2013, 09:56:58 PM »
Cheers for the feedback.

Yeah I did have a go a while back with Resolve and wasn't too impressed but the new version is supposed to be out any day now so I'm hoping they have improved the debayer.

If someone could make a true log film profile for ACR then that would be a start, I've done a close approximation preset but I doubt I'm harnessing all the available DR from the dng, I don't know enough about log curves.

An even better option would be to convert to LOG when doing the initial conversion of the .RAW files and render a proxy too.

How's Cineform's debayer? has anyone given that a thorough testing?

Glad Resolve is improving on their debayer.. I think your log preset look very nice you should share it with the community.  You right it would be awesome if someone can come-up with it right from the .RAW conversion to DNG.  Don't know enough info about cineform debayer, not sure how good it is. 

goldenchild9to5

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Re: moire and all
« Reply #2411 on: July 23, 2013, 10:11:27 PM »
Hey 50D RAW community!

I was the guy who brought up those ugly aliasing+moire pictures some time ago )) and even was referred to as a "moire gang" man )) so I continue to explore into the issue.

Let me tell you I love my ML'ed 50D. But the issue of aliasing (whenever I some fine details / textures fall into the frame) still bothers me. And I try to find ways of workaround.

According to the theory, the problem happens when the fineness of the details in your frame comes close to the distance between the most near pixels. In the case of 50D, it's 0.0140783 mm. Rough (and over-simplified) solution is to blur the image in those small details while keeping larger details intact.

What do I do?

First, I use the aperture values out of the sweet mid spot of a lens. Basically it's either wide open or completely shut.
Secondly, I use some old manual lens (a guy in Ukraine does Canon EF mounts for old Olympus and Minolta lenses) and they lose some sharpness.
Thirdly, I use a stills photography Cokin add-on and insert a cheap Chinese ND2 filter in front of my lenses to lose some sharpness.

There is yet another method -- to de-focus your lens from the area with problematic details.
And I'd like to suggest one tool to make this de-focusing slightly more scientific.

It's a free application for Android that I wrote last winter. It does 2 things:
- calculates DOF (nothing special)
- calculates the degree of blurriness out of DOF

It gives a specific parameter that is called "Min Detail" that shows how much any object is blurred that is out of DOF (that is, de-focused). So whenever you have fine details / fabrics make sure that you take exact focus from that and that Min Detail parameter for that distance is not less than the real size of a detail / pattern unit.

Will not go into detail here more, as I'm not sure if a lot of people will find this usefull...

The app is here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.kadru.dev.visualdof2
The help info is here http://dev.kadru.net


Hey Rommex I feel your pain.. But all I can say about your post is to use a software with the highest debayer process currently right now (ACR) takes the Cake.  At first I was going straight into Resolve 9, the results were pretty good but in certain shots the noise, or fringing, aliasing was just too much.  If you wanna get better footage from your 50D trust me go (ACR).  Ooh by the way I just learned a new trick that gets rid of a lot of the Color Fringing when I tried it I was amazed (UV Filter) yes you heard me right UV filtration without it that's what's causing the fringing.  Don't get the cheap kinds, get yourself the Tiffen Haze-2a UV Filter it filtrates 100% of contaminated UV light.  Try those two things and post your findings cheers. 

rommex

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Re: moire and all
« Reply #2412 on: July 23, 2013, 10:24:00 PM »
...
If you wanna get better footage from your 50D trust me go (ACR). 
..... (UV Filter) yes you heard me right UV filtration that's what's causing it.  ........

1. Recently I was testing ACR as I read several posts here on the forum about it being better. However, ACR doesn't solve the issue for me as I wished it would.

2. Maybe you mean that a good UV filter can eliminate Chromatic Aberrations, which it could for sure. But Digital (Bayer) color fringing happens when the ray of light has gone past the filter, the glass and hits Bayer pixels. You can't help it but blur at the length of the inter-pixel distance. That's why low-pass filters exists right in front of the sensor.

jgerstel

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2413 on: July 23, 2013, 10:40:51 PM »
Hi,

Looks like shooting in crop mode has little less moire.


Caonon 50mm lens
Magic Lantern Raw - 1080P filmed in zoom / crop mode (exept for evoluon intro clip)
ML build 11th July 2013

goldenchild9to5

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Re: moire and all
« Reply #2414 on: July 23, 2013, 10:57:38 PM »
1. Recently I was testing ACR as I read several posts here on the forum about it being better. However, ACR doesn't solve the issue for me as I wished it would.

2. Maybe you mean that a good UV filter can eliminate Chromatic Aberrations, which it could for sure. But Digital (Bayer) color fringing happens when the ray of light has gone past the filter, the glass and hits Bayer pixels. You can't help it but blur at the length of the inter-pixel distance. That's why low-pass filters exists right in front of the sensor.

(ACR) is working for me so far getting great results, That Tiffen Haze-2a filter is magic that's all I can say.  I'll post some of my results later or tomorrow, also don't forget to check Blackmagic Davinci Resolve 9 latest updates.  I think they should be upgrading there Debayer process.   

goldenchild9to5

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2415 on: July 23, 2013, 10:58:09 PM »
Hi,

Looks like shooting in crop mode has little less moire.


Caonon 50mm lens
Magic Lantern Raw - 1080P filmed in zoom / crop mode (exept for evoluon intro clip)
ML build 11th July 2013

Great Job.. very nice

Gekko

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Re: moire and all
« Reply #2416 on: July 24, 2013, 01:52:11 AM »
Will not go into detail here more, as I'm not sure if a lot of people will find this usefull...
The app is here...

rommex, please don't get me wrong.
I see a very hard-working community here and read all about the progress regarding the 50D with great pleasure. There are tons of people developing the firmware and it's simply unbelievable what came out so far. And this all because these people work for all of us, taking no money for it and releasing it free of any copyright. ML is absolutely free. But here's the issue that makes me concerned. Without ML, especially the 50D would not be of ANY interest to anyone of us anymore. And i can't believe, that the guys at EOSHD.com don't hesitate to make MONEY with it. Although the progress in developing ML is not made by them, they try to earn money with it.

And so are you. Please, by any means: PLEASE stop trying to make money with this FREE work and respect the hard efforts the developers give even YOU as a GIFT. Try to merchandize and sell your products anywhere. But PLEASE don't do it in this forums. Thank you for your understanding.

artiswar

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2417 on: July 24, 2013, 01:59:41 AM »
@artiswar the upper ones are the original shots right? a question: did you underexpose the images on purpose?

Upper shots are originals. I didn't underexpose too much. What you're seeing is a decreased exposure value in DaVinci along with the BMD film preset. Much more flexibility in post to push everything. As long as things don't get too dark and as long as highlights don't clip, with raw you're good.

Andy600

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Re: moire and all
« Reply #2418 on: July 24, 2013, 02:08:15 AM »
rommex, please don't get me wrong.
I see a very hard-working community here and read all about the progress regarding the 50D with great pleasure. There are tons of people developing the firmware and it's simply unbelievable what came out so far. And this all because these people work for all of us, taking no money for it and releasing it free of any copyright. ML is absolutely free. But here's the issue that makes me concerned. Without ML, especially the 50D would not be of ANY interest to anyone of us anymore. And i can't believe, that the guys at EOSHD.com don't hesitate to make MONEY with it. Although the progress in developing ML is not made by them, they try to earn money with it.

And so are you. Please, by any means: PLEASE stop trying to make money with this FREE work and respect the hard efforts the developers give even YOU as a GIFT. Try to merchandize and sell your products anywhere. But PLEASE don't do it in this forums. Thank you for your understanding.

@Gekko - In what way does Rommex's app constitute trying to make money from, through or by Magic Lantern. His app, from what I can see is 1) FREE (he accepts donations) and 2) universally applicable to photography and video makers, regardless of what camera they use.

Though I can appreciate the sentiment, for a first post as a new member, you're not exactly well placed to make such a criticism really.


Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

thorstone137

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2419 on: July 24, 2013, 05:50:59 AM »
I was doing some 50d low light exposure research and I found that the 50d has full stop and incremental stop ISO capabilities.. Full stops are mechanical (electrical.. i.e. cleaner) than the incremental stops that interpolated via canon firmware.

I found many complaints about the 50d "low light" and some were saying that if you stick to the "full stops" when setting ISO you'll get the results you'd expect from this level of camera.

So my question is.. How is ML handling ISO settings? When do I have a full stop vs a incremental stop?

a1ex

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2420 on: July 24, 2013, 07:22:24 AM »
In raw you are getting only full stops (you can't get digital gain). Make sure you expose to the right.

DJG

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2421 on: July 24, 2013, 07:29:09 AM »
@GoldenChild9to5 - Thanks!

@rommex and @Andy600 - Thanks for the tips!

*Actually the last video (page 95) was the June 11th build! Sry about the mix up.

I went and got a few test clips today and I ran into a new problem. Still using June 11th build.

Anamorphic shooting this time. 4:3 Mode. 1280x960. Used RAW2DNG. All the DNG images came out fine.

POST:

Color corrected in ACR. Imported RAW sequence into AE. Resized to 2560x960. Rendered out DNxHD 444 10 Bit. No problems there.

This is a VLC snapshot:




Then I imported DNXHD clip into PPRO to make a sequence. Rendered to 1080p H264, and got this:




I also tried rendering to 1080p MPEG2, Quicktime H264, and 2560x960 DNxHD. I still get a video with those weird white dots the second time I export. Nothing was clipping in the highlights in any of the versions. All scopes in PPRO show everything within a normal range too.

Has anyone else run into this problem?

goldenchild9to5

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2422 on: July 24, 2013, 07:29:26 AM »
In raw you are getting only full stops (you can't get digital gain). Make sure you expose to the right.

Keep up the great work a1ex the development of the cameras are fast, almost everyday something new comes up, I'm so thankful. 

goldenchild9to5

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2423 on: July 24, 2013, 07:33:34 AM »
@GoldenChild9to5 - Thanks!

@rommex and @Andy600 - Thanks for the tips!

*Actually the last video (page 95) was the June 11th build! Sry about the mix up.

I went and got a few test clips today and I ran into a new problem. Still using June 11th build.

Anamorphic shooting this time. 4:3 Mode. 1280x960. Used RAW2DNG. All the DNG images came out fine.

POST:

Color corrected in ACR. Imported RAW sequence into AE. Resized to 2560x960. Rendered out DNxHD 444 10 Bit. No problems there.

This is a VLC snapshot:




Then I imported DNXHD clip into PPRO to make a sequence. Rendered to 1080p H264, and got this:




I also tried rendering to 1080p MPEG2, Quicktime H264, and 2560x960 DNxHD. I still get a video with those weird white dots the second time I export. Nothing was clipping in the highlights in any of the versions. All scopes in PPRO show everything within a normal range too.

Has anyone else run into this problem?


My workflow I don't render out as DNxHD I always render ProRes files, so I'm not sure what would cause such problem.  I'll try and replicate your workflow and see if I get the same results.

DJG

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2424 on: July 24, 2013, 08:24:38 AM »


My workflow I don't render out as DNxHD I always render ProRes files, so I'm not sure what would cause such problem.  I'll try and replicate your workflow and see if I get the same results.


Hey I just doubled checked and where the spots were it WAS clipping in ACR. It's strange though. I zoomed in on the ACR it reveled little red dots showing the clipping warning. This wasn't showing in the histogram though or on the normal view. And for some reason the dots didn't show up on that first DNxHD version I rendered from AE and I didn't get any hightlight clipping in any scopes in PPRO (even when zoomed in).

I went back and re-did everything, getting rid of the tiny clipping I could only see zoomed in on ACR. Imported RAW sequence into AE. Exported as DNxHD 444. Imported DNxHD into PPRO. Exported as 1080p H264. Dots gone!



Thanks for trying out the workflow if you got around to it. I'd be interested to see if you left any clipping in ACR if you'd end up seeing those dots on any renders. I would render out to Prores too, but I'm on a PC and can't write the files :/