Author Topic: 50D Raw video  (Read 683422 times)

Supermac

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2850 on: August 16, 2013, 10:32:58 PM »
Hi supermac, 

thank's . It's not for a real alternative, just to have a RAW DSLR always with me. In fact the 50D looks very well manufactured and ergonomics like the 5D2. And I could use all my stuff with it...

I can vouch for that, very solid indeed. Makes my 550D seem like a cheap toy.

xvince1

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2851 on: August 16, 2013, 10:44:37 PM »
I can vouch for that, very solid indeed. Makes my 550D seem like a cheap toy.

That looks really cool... Just incredible thing to have RAW and video with it. In March or April, I was thinking about 60D for the rotative screen, but the 50D is cheaper and use CF... What a huge gap now in the canon line (CF vs SD)  :) 

scrizz

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2852 on: August 16, 2013, 10:52:05 PM »
That looks really cool... Just incredible thing to have RAW and video with it. In March or April, I was thinking about 60D for the rotative screen, but the 50D is cheaper and use CF... What a huge gap now in the canon line (CF vs SD)  :)

If only the 60D had CF. lol  ;D

TrueIndigo

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2853 on: August 16, 2013, 11:31:53 PM »
When I have time, I've been shooting my own tests to get more experience of using the raw hack (though nothing worth posting here yet), and I've just got back on top of the posts to learn as much as I can! I was on an old version for a while but currently using GregoryOfManhattan's 27 June Unified build. It's great to have your settings still there when you turn it back on again! Things just keep getting better. There's no other word for it, for the first time in ages I feel excited shooting raw 2.39:1 with the 50D. It's like filming with a compact little Eyemo 35mm camera, though that camera's internal 100 ft reel of stock lasted just over a minute (at 24 fps), and the clock winding gave you just 20 seconds per take, so I feel quite spoilt even using a fairly modest 64 GB CF card. What more are we waiting for these days?

Got a replica battery grip today, which has overcome the problem of battery drain that I was experiencing with raw shooting on the 50D.

Briefly tested the joys of focus peaking, but when I started to use it for a longer test later, I found my takes were being aborted early. Yes, the constant real time focus peaking was pushing the resources too far; I turned it off and my usual performance was back again. I can always use the usual Canon magnifying buttons to focus before I record.

Moire can sometimes be prominent, though when I shot a test side-by-side with my 60D shooting H.264 video, I can see the particular areas of moire are very similar with both cameras, it's just softer with the 60D -- well, the whole H.264 video image is a bit softer than raw, even when raw processing sharpness is turned down.

One of the great benefits of raw footage is in the post-production; I am currently using ACR but my next area of exploration will be trying Raw Therapy as an alternative.

I always have the live raw histogram on (there is no performance hit) to estimate exposure, but what do the coloured dots actually mean, sometimes with numbers forming inside them? 

Many thanks for the big effort of the coders and the support of the frequent forum contributors on here. Very inspirational.

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2854 on: August 16, 2013, 11:53:01 PM »
You know what would be really cool, some kind of zebra stripes or something that warn of moire patterns. Probably impossible though.

@Supermac - to me this is actually a good, constructive idea! I'm not sure if it's possible because the camera wouldn't know how to detect moire but good thinking anyway!  :)

@Silkway - I'm not really sure why I feel I have to say something about your earlier dissing of Viente's video when others have so eloquently offered constructive criticism but nonetheless, I hope you can contribute more positively to the thread and the forum. I get that you are enthusiastic and excited by what your camera can do (we all are!) but I'm actually more interested to see what YOU can do with it.

@Viente - Congrats on making your first music video dude! I know from experience that it's a bit scary putting something out there but you did good! I get where you're coming from with it and there are some great ideas and shots there. I agree with earlier comments about the flow of the piece but also there are no rules when it comes to creativity so do your own thing. You'll never please everyone but it's cool to see you pushing forward and making something rather than getting stuck in endless test shots (like some of us  ::) ). I know that you understand the market you're aiming at and I'd say this fits. Keep it up mate!!
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

lomka

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2855 on: August 17, 2013, 12:12:39 AM »
i use the best card on the planet
lexar x1000
on canon 50d

and i cant make it run faster that 55 mb/sec on continuous green recording not yellow or red thing.
I searched the lexar x1000 card and in benchmark it had 66 mb/s speed and found a cf card: KOMPUTERBAY x1000 which had 114 mb/s write speed.

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2856 on: August 17, 2013, 12:12:55 AM »
When I have time, I've been shooting my own tests to get more experience of using the raw hack (though nothing worth posting here yet), and I've just got back on top of the posts to learn as much as I can! I was on an old version for a while but currently using GregoryOfManhattan's 27 June Unified build. It's great to have your settings still there when you turn it back on again! Things just keep getting better. There's no other word for it, for the first time in ages I feel excited shooting raw 2.39:1 with the 50D. It's like filming with a compact little Eyemo 35mm camera, though that camera's internal 100 ft reel of stock lasted just over a minute (at 24 fps), and the clock winding gave you just 20 seconds per take, so I feel quite spoilt even using a fairly modest 64 GB CF card. What more are we waiting for these days?

Got a replica battery grip today, which has overcome the problem of battery drain that I was experiencing with raw shooting on the 50D.

Briefly tested the joys of focus peaking, but when I started to use it for a longer test later, I found my takes were being aborted early. Yes, the constant real time focus peaking was pushing the resources too far; I turned it off and my usual performance was back again. I can always use the usual Canon magnifying buttons to focus before I record.

Moire can sometimes be prominent, though when I shot a test side-by-side with my 60D shooting H.264 video, I can see the particular areas of moire are very similar with both cameras, it's just softer with the 60D -- well, the whole H.264 video image is a bit softer than raw, even when raw processing sharpness is turned down.

One of the great benefits of raw footage is in the post-production; I am currently using ACR but my next area of exploration will be trying Raw Therapy as an alternative.

I always have the live raw histogram on (there is no performance hit) to estimate exposure, but what do the coloured dots actually mean, sometimes with numbers forming inside them? 

Many thanks for the big effort of the coders and the support of the frequent forum contributors on here. Very inspirational.

Nice post :)

I have the same mindset as you in thinking of raw video like film stock. It really helps you focus on the important stuff when you have limitations. I actually 'think' more with raw before hitting the record button and my shots are improving.

BTW we should have a kind of focus peaking that doesn't have so much impact on resources soon so you'll be able to shoot with it on ;)
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

Viente

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2857 on: August 17, 2013, 12:22:21 AM »
@Viente - Congrats on making your first music video dude! I know from experience that it's a bit scary putting something out there but you did good! I get where you're coming from with it and there are some great ideas and shots there. I agree with earlier comments about the flow of the piece but also there are no rules when it comes to creativity so do your own thing. You'll never please everyone but it's cool to see you pushing forward and making something rather than getting stuck in endless test shots (like some of us  ::) ). I know that you understand the market you're aiming at and I'd say this fits. Keep it up mate!!

Thanks mate! (And all other fellow 50d users out there!). I wouldn't call this music video, im too far away from doing it lol :) Just a little promo video to make watching a track on YouTube a little bit interesting. I realize i know so little about professional things of serious shooting but it was fun and i'll keep learning as much as i can to keep progress! Looking forward to see something cool from you as well soon :)

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2858 on: August 17, 2013, 01:31:40 AM »
Latest Tragic Lantern 2.0 (Andy600 intermediate build)

https://bitbucket.org/andy600/tl50d/downloads

Features a1ex's NEW experimental Digic Focus Peaking which doesn't impact on raw video record time/performance.

3 options currently available: Increased sharpness, Edge and Chroma.

Find it in the display menu.

Plus other minor fixes.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

dsManning

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2859 on: August 17, 2013, 02:13:15 AM »
Latest Tragic Lantern 2.0 (Andy600 intermediate build)

https://bitbucket.org/andy600/tl50d/downloads

Features a1ex's NEW experimental Digic Focus Peaking which doesn't impact on raw video record time/performance.

3 options currently available: Increased sharpness, Edge and Chroma.

Find it in the display menu.

Plus other minor fixes.

Thanks for the build.  Aperture changes work during recording now.  The new focus peaking is nice, in that it doesn't take a hit to the speed, but it is going to take some getting used to.  Useful for 1920x1080 as it provides a nice bump in edges, but I can run Focus Peaking on 1584x892 with continuous, getting 55-65mb/s.

Thanks again!  ;D

johansugarev

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2860 on: August 17, 2013, 03:09:46 AM »
Why does the preview in all tragic lantern builds not fill the entire screen like all other ML builds?
Also, what is a good way of unloading cards on location? my laptop does not have usb3.0 and 64gb takes forever.

goldenchild9to5

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2861 on: August 17, 2013, 03:26:47 AM »
Latest Tragic Lantern 2.0 (Andy600 intermediate build)

https://bitbucket.org/andy600/tl50d/downloads

Features a1ex's NEW experimental Digic Focus Peaking which doesn't impact on raw video record time/performance.

3 options currently available: Increased sharpness, Edge and Chroma.

Find it in the display menu.

Plus other minor fixes.

Thank you for new build Andy - @1% & @a1ex I still can't believe the advances for the 50D, it is becoming a movie making machine for less than an XBox Wow!!!  I'm soo grateful for everything guy's keep up the great work..   ;D

goldenchild9to5

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2862 on: August 17, 2013, 03:30:07 AM »
Hey guy's @Andy600 @1% @a1lex I think it's time for new donations to start rolling in to keep the advances going what do you guy's think?  If it's a yes I'm ready to give my share cheers.   ;)

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2863 on: August 17, 2013, 08:34:57 AM »
Why does the preview in all tragic lantern builds not fill the entire screen like all other ML builds?
Also, what is a good way of unloading cards on location? my laptop does not have usb3.0 and 64gb takes forever.

It's a small optimization to increase write speed but you can press the INFO button a few times to get rid of the extra black bars.

re: Offloading. The cheapest option if you want to stick with the laptop is to get an Express card with USB 3.0 ports ;) I think you can also get them for SATA ports. The next (expensive) option would be something like a NextoDI http://www.nextodi.com
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

rockfallfilms

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Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2864 on: August 17, 2013, 11:57:45 AM »
Okay, there have been popping up presets for After Effects/Adobe to get flat pictures, import or render them to 10bit and apply luts or whatever. I've also read people complaining about flickering in ACR.

So far so good, I remember that on LRtimelapse (nice program) there is a general consens to not use highlight recovery, black , white, shadows,etc... because they are not linear but some "secret sauce" which depends on the scene. This doesn't matter to stills (which it was designed for) but when movement comes into play this can actually generate flicker. It does not always happen, but sometimes you get the flickering.

To avoid this, I have "created" two a camera profiles which give you a very flat picture style and some desaturation. This is just a test as I'm not an expert but I think it works fine (tried out with the 50d raw video with cdng files). I will look into it again when I have some time. Here are the camera profiles:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sxxj82szbimxn8f/MLfilm%20slight.dcp
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8yhv4qsquaygs3s/MLfilm%20strong.dcp

You have to put them into c:/users/"your username"/AppData/Roaming/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles

Afterwards they should appear under the camera calibration tab.

This is the same way I did my log preset, as you said, it works better as you don't get any flicker.

I based mine off the 50D camera neutral ACR profile (available on adobe's site) and changed the tone curve to linear. If you expose to the right and don't clip anything then you'll get an S-Log/BMDFilm style image.

Ideally I'd want to shoot a chart and create a profile based on what we are actually getting from the sensor as I'm not sure how accurate the Canon/Adobe profiles are.

I'm just tweaking my LUT at the mo, in Resolve I use the Offset control to adjust it to suit. So far I'm getting quite consistent results.

johansugarev

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2865 on: August 17, 2013, 03:03:17 PM »
rockfallfilms, can you share your preset?

Eran

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2866 on: August 17, 2013, 03:44:08 PM »
Thanks for the build Andy600 !

@Andy600 "...you can press the INFO button a few times to get rid of the extra black bars"

But do we need to press the INFO all the time before each shot? I personally as @johansugarev prefer to see the entire frame all the time so it's feel like "bug" to keep pressing it over and over. What do you think?

@dsManning the Aperture is still lock for me. Did you try it during recording  and with the "Extra Hacks" on?


lomka

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2867 on: August 17, 2013, 04:37:16 PM »
is it possible on 50d to do pixel binning instead of line skipping so that there will be less aliasing/moire?
i mean it has full resolution of 4752 × 3168 combining 3x3 pixels we will have 1584 x 1056 resolution.

rommex

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2868 on: August 17, 2013, 05:02:17 PM »
is it possible on 50d to do pixel binning instead of line skipping so that there will be less aliasing/moire?
i mean it has full resolution of 4752 × 3168 combining 3x3 pixels we will have 1584 x 1056 resolution.

Fantastic idea as it is, you really think that it hasn't been suggested dozens of times and hasn't been considered by the developers hundreds of times? )) or you really think you could be the ONE? ))

lomka

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2869 on: August 17, 2013, 05:25:05 PM »
Fantastic idea as it is, you really think that it hasn't been suggested dozens of times and hasn't been considered by the developers hundreds of times? )) or you really think you could be the ONE? ))
im asking if it is possible not suggesting the idea.

Monti

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2870 on: August 17, 2013, 06:53:46 PM »
Hmm... can anyone say how to sync audio and video on canon 50d?

rommex

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2871 on: August 17, 2013, 07:15:20 PM »
im asking if it is possible not suggesting the idea.

Of course it is possible. Just nobody seems to want this feature. Just kidding....

You may try searching the thread and you'll find explicit answers why this is not possible.

dogmydog

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2872 on: August 17, 2013, 07:35:57 PM »
Hmm... can anyone say how to sync audio and video on canon 50d?

Clapboard. Or an external monitor with audio recording (check out first post of this thread) ;)
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Canon 50D, 60D and 7D

Supermac

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2873 on: August 17, 2013, 09:09:01 PM »
Anyone have any state of the art techniques for dealing with moire and aliasing in post?

Monti

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2874 on: August 17, 2013, 09:19:11 PM »
Clapboard. Or an external monitor with audio recording (check out first post of this thread) ;)

yeah but i heard that it moves 6 seconds from audio to video stream after 2 minutes

huge gap isnt it?

how to set it work fine or adjust to sync?