Author Topic: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics! (silent.mo)  (Read 287327 times)

ch_d

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #225 on: May 01, 2013, 12:17:20 AM »
Some raw DNG tests:


are this tests with 5*zoom? rolling shutter as hell in this mode... you canĀ“t get rid of this bad rolling shutter issues.
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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #226 on: May 01, 2013, 12:35:06 AM »
Some zoom, some 720P24, some 1080P

The 720ps might have gotten rolling shutter depending on which override mode I used.

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hirethestache

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #227 on: May 01, 2013, 01:59:26 AM »
You're saying as if there is Atomos Ninja2 laying in everyone homes.... get a grip Ok?  ???

There's no need for that. He's only asking because he, like quite a few of us, would find great use with this and it would truly turn our cameras into workhorses, and give BMCC a run for its money...

Because I too was curious about this, but am not a developer by any means, would anyone explain in layman's terms why recording through HMDI out would not be feasible...you know, for us dumb monkeys ;)
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Kenjee

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #228 on: May 01, 2013, 04:20:00 AM »
Idea.

Raw > gamma curve (flat out) > Jpeg (or 422)

?

P337

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #229 on: May 01, 2013, 04:23:58 AM »
Because I too was curious about this, but am not a developer by any means, would anyone explain in layman's terms why recording through HMDI out would not be feasible...you know, for us dumb monkeys ;)

You mean for 14bit raw?

Basically Canon's HDMI out can't display an image with that much detail.

It's limited to 8bit (which is a huge leap down from 14bit) and HDMI can't display RAW images, it needs to be 'debayered' (reordering the raw pixels into an actual image) and 'sub-sampled' (that means deleting pixels then filling those gaps with clones of the left over pixels) also I think the HDMI spec used in Canon DSLRs don't support anything over 1920x1080 so it would need to be resized or cropped too.

RAW images, are really just a mess of colored pixels until something "debayers" it into the actual image; which is either done in Canon's built in JPEG converter, H.264 converter or LiveView converter (which goes to the HDMI and LCD).

However Canon's built in CR2 converter (for RAW photos) or this added DNG converter (which I think still uses Canon's built in CR2 converter but just sticks it into a DNG container) do not "debayer" so the RAW 'pixel mess' is just saved, the debayer is done (usually automatically) by your computer's picture viewer or image editor.

aaphotog

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #230 on: May 01, 2013, 05:24:54 AM »
Where can I find the latest nightly release so that I may compile and load up to my 5d3?

P337

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #231 on: May 01, 2013, 05:36:18 AM »
Idea.

Raw > gamma curve (flat out) > Jpeg (or 422)

?

I think that's what this is doing:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5247.0

RAW/DNG = 14bit 4:4:4 uncompressed
LiveView(HDMI)/YUV422 Recorder(?) = 8bit 4:2:2 uncompressed
JPEG/"M"-JPEG = 8bit 4:2:2 compressed
H.264 = 8bit 4:2:0 compressed

looks like the uncompressed YUV422 recorder is going to be the answer for video here but is it better then the clean uncompressed HDMI out? (other then the fact you don't need an external recorder)

hirethestache

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #232 on: May 01, 2013, 08:46:02 AM »
You mean for 14bit raw?

Basically Canon's HDMI out can't display an image with that much detail.

It's limited to 8bit (which is a huge leap down from 14bit) and HDMI can't display RAW images, it needs to be 'debayered' (reordering the raw pixels into an actual image) and 'sub-sampled' (that means deleting pixels then filling those gaps with clones of the left over pixels) also I think the HDMI spec used in Canon DSLRs don't support anything over 1920x1080 so it would need to be resized or cropped too.

RAW images, are really just a mess of colored pixels until something "debayers" it into the actual image; which is either done in Canon's built in JPEG converter, H.264 converter or LiveView converter (which goes to the HDMI and LCD).

However Canon's built in CR2 converter (for RAW photos) or this added DNG converter (which I think still uses Canon's built in CR2 converter but just sticks it into a DNG container) do not "debayer" so the RAW 'pixel mess' is just saved, the debayer is done (usually automatically) by your computer's picture viewer or image editor.

Awesome, that makes it a world clear! I may be wrong, but the uncompressed clean HDMI output is 8bit 4:2:2@1080...

Would I be wrong in saying that 8bit DNG would still be higher-quality? Yes, it is undoubtedly lesser quality than 14 bit, but this is one of those "take what you can get" situations.
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P337

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #233 on: May 01, 2013, 10:05:27 AM »
Awesome, that makes it a world clear! I may be wrong, but the uncompressed clean HDMI output is 8bit 4:2:2@1080...

Would I be wrong in saying that 8bit DNG would still be higher-quality? Yes, it is undoubtedly lesser quality than 14 bit, but this is one of those "take what you can get" situations.

No the best part of the DNG is the 14bit color but I don't think the DNG or CR2 converter in Canon's hardware can do lossy compressions anyway, just a locked in Lossless 14bit 4:4:4 1.25:1 compression.  What the Magic Lantern guys are doing in the YUV422 uncompressed recorder is our best bet,  I would expect similar quality to recording the clean HDMI out that Canon just gave us for 5D3, except without the need of requiring a $1000 external HDMI recorder and hopefully they can include sound :)  (yeah Canon added uncompressed video but REMOVED audio from the HDMI out now!)

mucher

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #234 on: May 01, 2013, 11:16:02 AM »
Honestly, I was wonding if it was possible to feed the buffer into the "crappy" hardware h.264 encoder, it might get a better result than the current one.

One ideal resolution is asking Canon to develop a new video format by adding jpg files together and, with a timeline built in, making it a video, then the 7D's two DIGIC4 processor can be used, which might be able to make it fast enough for 2k@24fps.

Just thinking out loud.

Kenjee

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #235 on: May 01, 2013, 01:33:58 PM »
I think that's what this is doing:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5247.0

RAW/DNG = 14bit 4:4:4 uncompressed
LiveView(HDMI)/YUV422 Recorder(?) = 8bit 4:2:2 uncompressed
JPEG/"M"-JPEG = 8bit 4:2:2 compressed
H.264 = 8bit 4:2:0 compressed

looks like the uncompressed YUV422 recorder is going to be the answer for video here but is it better then the clean uncompressed HDMI out? (other then the fact you don't need an external recorder)

My only idea is to use raw dinamic range and flat it out (gamma curve) to some of the possible formats (jpeg,422)
I think that cinestyle and others curves do that only after conversion in 8 bit space, or I`m wrong?


CaptainHook

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #236 on: May 01, 2013, 02:04:56 PM »
What the Magic Lantern guys are doing in the YUV422 uncompressed recorder is our best bet,  I would expect similar quality to recording the clean HDMI out that Canon just gave us for 5D3

I would hope they can improve it!
I did some testing today of the 5D3 hdmi out and compared to the internal codecs, and the BMCC:


hirethestache

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #237 on: May 01, 2013, 08:15:43 PM »
I would hope they can improve it!
I did some testing today of the 5D3 hdmi out and compared to the internal codecs, and the BMCC:


Hard to see what's going on in my tiny iphone5 screen, but what are your impressions on the new firmware?
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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #238 on: May 01, 2013, 09:36:56 PM »
Wow, 5d3 really soft compared to BMCC.

The raw DNG looks like BMCC dng tho.

CaptainHook

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #239 on: May 01, 2013, 10:23:29 PM »
Hard to see what's going on in my tiny iphone5 screen, but what are your impressions on the new firmware?

I wrote my thoughts in the description on vimeo, i don't want to go too off-topic here. :)

The raw DNG looks like BMCC dng tho.

And that's why lots of us are hoping you guys can get continuous recording at some kind of decent resolution, or somehow get it uncompressed to the HDMI out (or the YUV422 to the hdmi out if it looks better than canons version!) to breathe new life into the camera. Great work you're all doing. :)

Mati

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #240 on: May 02, 2013, 12:04:14 AM »
I am on my Dell 2412m I see a big difference between 5dMKIII, and BMCC, the + BMCC. I wonder what they see on the Eizo .... ? :)

hirethestache

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #241 on: May 02, 2013, 12:22:36 AM »
Dont want to detract too much from the development talk, but I'd like to donate some moolah to the core team--do you guys still have a method for accepting donations? Last I was able, was when we donated for early release of 2.3...
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VectorZ

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #242 on: May 02, 2013, 02:24:28 AM »
Does SRaw mode do anything to help this situation?

Theoretically it could reduce your resolution sampling, or perhaps offer some alternate compression scheme?

P337

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #243 on: May 02, 2013, 02:39:00 AM »
I wrote my thoughts in the description on vimeo, i don't want to go too off-topic here. :)

And that's why lots of us are hoping you guys can get continuous recording at some kind of decent resolution, or somehow get it uncompressed to the HDMI out (or the YUV422 to the hdmi out if it looks better than canons version!) to breathe new life into the camera. Great work you're all doing. :)

I just saw a review on the CanonRumors forum(i think) that compared the HDMI out quality before the firmware update and after, the after looked slightly sharper.  Maybe Canon is doing less resizing for the HDMI out now, maybe they're taking a crop from (what I assume) the original 2K 14bit RAW sensor scan for video found by magic Lantern then compressing it down to 4:2:2 8bit and sending it out HDMI.  Maybe that's the best continuous video we can get from these cameras.

1%, in the YUV422 recorder thread did you guys find a way to write to the card faster?  I read 10MB/s faster for round integers and bigger blocks which resulted in double the frames before the recording stopped (400 frames at 24fps/16 seconds I think it was).  COuld that be applied to the 14bit DNGs?  Would we get a few more seconds of recording that way?

P337

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #244 on: May 02, 2013, 02:48:53 AM »
Does SRaw mode do anything to help this situation?

Theoretically it could reduce your resolution sampling, or perhaps offer some alternate compression scheme?

I don't think so, the "usable image" is already just about 1080p so sRAW might shrink that too far, like 240p (I haven't done the math though). 

They need is a way to compress in real time while saving the resolution where it is at
or a way to crop the image in real time
or a way to increase buffer speeds
or a way to increase buffer capacity
actually all of the above

they're working hard looking for an answer but I wouldn't expect continuous 14bit DNG video, honestly I'd just be happy with 10 seconds (which is already asking a lot from this hardware).

Though I wonder, are the 14bit DNGs are using the same "pipe" that the Camera uses for writing CR2 files to card?  What if they were converted to CR2 rather then DNG?  Would that allow them to use a bigger or faster buffer?  Probably not though cause I assume CHDK's DNG converter is already using Canon's built in CR2 converter.

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #245 on: May 02, 2013, 02:53:10 AM »
Maybe tweaking exmem a little would help... I too would be happy with like 5 or 10 seconds. Its getting pretty close. Also somehow writing at optimum size for the memory card would help too.



The LV rec is now recording dng and it is twice as fast already... have to figure out the files to see what they look like.

shuggyrasklat

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #246 on: May 02, 2013, 04:25:46 AM »
is LV rec, the 5d3 update, or is it in my mkii ml?

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #247 on: May 02, 2013, 05:47:35 AM »
What is the biggest resolution on 5Dmkii with this method? I wouldn't make 24p video (I haven't got fast CF cards), i would capture 1 frame in every 1 second for timelapse.

mucher

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #248 on: May 02, 2013, 06:05:50 AM »
Another thought. If the developers can add silent pic to 7D, and take the screen dump like 24fps, then I can later convert the dump to jpg, and use jpg to create an avi file, then import to software to process(I can crop the clip into 16:9 in video editing software I hope) -- so all the developers need to do is to add a 24 fps interval timer. Or...port the dump the silent video to h.264, that will save me some work.

The current 7D video is so bad, which doesn't match with its jpg capture very much in many ways(black point, white point,...)

I would mind to donate money for that function because it can enlever my 7D's video capture capability.

Francis

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Re: 14bit RAW DNG silent pics!
« Reply #249 on: May 02, 2013, 07:43:28 AM »
What is the biggest resolution on 5Dmkii with this method? I wouldn't make 24p video (I haven't got fast CF cards), i would capture 1 frame in every 1 second for timelapse.

2K-ish is the resolution. It is perfect for time lapse. Not so perfect for video dreamers who immediately expect 2K raw @ 60FPS.