True 24p instead of 23.976 fps? "the true cinema is only at 24 fps" (cit.)

[Brawl]

Hello to anyone, recently I have meet some specialists in video and audio and they all said to me "true cinema is at 24fps". in any advice on the audio/video they gave to me there was "use only 24fps  for cinema". those specialist operate with high level directors (cinematographers stars of the italian movie and from across the world, like also from Hollywood for example).
I wish to ask you if with ML is it possible to record at 24P instead of 23.976 fps. is it possible? I wish to do this in the Canon 600d european version.
thx!

[kgv5]

Hi

check magic lanterns FPS override feature, there is exact fps setting so you can set 24 (or any value). Unfortunatelly with this enabled camera records movie without sound  (probably it would be out of synchro). You can always use extarnal recorder though and synchronize in post.
Remember, that FPS number are not changed in file description, i mean when you export file to after effects for example it will show 23.976, 29,97 or some other standard setting. Movie will be in fact 24 fps so you have to make a composition with framerate set to 24 and than render with it.

[scrax]

Unfortunatelly with this enabled camera records movie without sound  (probably it would be out of synchro).

yep but also true cinema camera don't record audio 

[Yoshiyuki Blade]

I think an easier solution is just to record normally at 23.976 (or 24000/1001 to be exact), assume exactly 24 fps in the software, and speed up the audio proportionally. I bet the change in audio pitch will be imperceptible.

[Brawl]

Thank you all for the help (awesome)!

I think an easier solution is just to record normally at 23.976 (or 24000/1001 to be exact), assume exactly 24 fps in the software, and speed up the audio proportionally. I bet the change in audio pitch will be imperceptible.

For true cinema theaters must make the movie at 24p. So if the movie is delivered at 25p they must slow down the movie and the audio. Also, if it is 23,976 they must speed it up a little bit. This means (they said) that the audio quality is compromised. And in a good theater you can ear the difference from the original.
In the studio of specialists that I visited they work very hard to mix the audio (dolby, they had James Cameron in that studio for example) that then it's burned with the video (on a HDD with a strange adapter) and delivered in all the cinemas of my country. They also said that some very bad theatre, speed up the movie a little bit, so they can put one more advertising (because if the movie is speed up (I believe at 23,976), so they have maybe some minute more of space to introduce one more advertising). This result a bad audio for their standard of quality.

So they said to me until nausa "for cinema use always 24p"! I can tell you if I close my eyes I can see them say this again like a nightmare because of all the number of times that all of them said this!

[Yoshiyuki Blade]

I don't think it's a good idea to be too obsessed over the frame rate to comply with "cinema standards." It can be a slippery slope. I reckon a true cinema also uses a 180 degree shutter, has full chroma resolution, jello-less picture, etc. Yet, these challenges are difficult/impossible to overcome using a "mere" DSLR for filming. I think at some point you'll have to come to terms with your technological limitations and work within those limits. Asking for exactly 24 fps, by way of skewing audio, is probably the easiest thing that you can do yourself.  Why not just comply with digital video standards and keep it as 23.976? That's probably where most ~24 fps content ends up anyway (DVD, Blu-ray, etc.).

[Francis]

I don't think it's a good idea to be too obsessed over the frame rate to comply with "cinema standards." It can be a slippery slope. I reckon a true cinema also uses a 180 degree shutter, has full chroma resolution, jello-less picture, etc. Yet, these challenges are difficult/impossible to overcome using a "mere" DSLR for filming. I think at some point you'll have to come to terms with your technological limitations and work within those limits. Asking for exactly 24 fps, by way of skewing audio, is probably the easiest thing that you can do yourself.  Why not just comply with digital video standards and keep it as 23.976? That's probably where most ~24 fps content ends up anyway (DVD, Blu-ray, etc.).

Agreed. I don't think that very much 1080p DSLR footage has made it's way onto the big screen projected from 35mm cellulose.

[ItsMeLenny]

I originally contacted canon before fps override was in ML asking for 24fps, because PAL contained 24*0.999 (or 24/1.001, which it's the first for canon cameras, probably as it results in only 3 decimal places), which isn't a PAL format, it's NTSC.
Cinema is 24fps... for playing back.
When movies are converted to PAL for dvd release they actually speed up the video, and audio, resulting in a semitone or two change in audio. Plus a film that originally ran for an hour 5 minutes would run for only an hour on PAL vhs or dvd. Which I'd been saying for years "It seemed like it went for longer at the cinema."
Same with American television shows, they shoot them at 23.976 for the cinematic feel, as a result when played on Australian tv they sound like chipmunks, which actually make the shows slightly funnier than they are, which most of them arn't.
24*0.999 exists because of inverse telecine conversion. Because NTSC is 30*0.999 (or 30/1.001) and when converted backwards it equals 24*0.999. Which actually means a movie on NTSC dvd will go for longer, as they slow it down from 24 to 24*0.999 to then convert to 30*0.999 (although bluray now contains 23.976p). Although the difference of converting a film to NTSC is marginal compared to converting to PAL, so the difference can't be noticed.