Author Topic: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2  (Read 1143373 times)

djoulbdx

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Wine before Camera - ML before Wine
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #525 on: May 21, 2013, 12:28:40 PM »
I think that we are all grateful.
It is sure.

I think we would all like this new feature is present on our EOS 7D. The price difference between the 7D and 5 is huge and many have a 7D. And the fact that there are two chips connected by a slow bus is the problem.

It is a little a hardware problem. Not a problem of performance. Many "little" Canon is able to record video in raw mode.

Dual core is not better ;-)

Let us be patient, respect team. It is a challenge for them, I'm sure that everything is done to succeed. If they can not do it, nobody can do it.


Thanks a lot at ML, g3gg0 and Alex.
EOS 7D ML | EOS 5 (not D) | 15-85 3.5 5.6 | 580 EX | 28-105 4.5 5.6 | 100-300 | etc...

vegajay

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #526 on: May 21, 2013, 04:41:17 PM »
How much is a possibility that raw video mode will be mounted in the future?
If it is a problem of hardware, is it impossible as a matter of fact?
Since it can give up purely if impossible, I want you to tackle the further development of the formal version of ML.

 thanks  g3gg0 and Alex.

beej

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 61
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #527 on: May 21, 2013, 07:03:27 PM »
How much is a possibility that raw video mode will be mounted in the future?
If it is a problem of hardware, is it impossible as a matter of fact?

You guys are asking questions that no-one can answer yet. The devs simply don't know until they go in and try, and see what is possible.

Currently, g3gg0 has mentioned that the 7D is tricky because of it's unique architecture. Whether this gets solved tomorrow, next month, or next year (or not at all) depends on a number of factors which are impossible to predict. All we can do is either use what we have and enjoy new stuff as and when it happens, or join the development effort if you have those skills to try and help move the project forward.

djoulbdx

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Wine before Camera - ML before Wine
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #528 on: May 21, 2013, 10:02:36 PM »
I totally agree but when you see the ambient enthusiasm , it is difficult for us. we are not members of the club...

That's why I am boring. Just like a child..at school. All the children have a toy, the must-have... and you are the only one who don't have it.
It is difficult. We feel excluded.

It is a sensation, it is not right. I know that they try. I know they make eventhing to manage. It is a challenge.

I thank them.

We don't want to be unpleasant.

Best Regards

EOS 7D ML | EOS 5 (not D) | 15-85 3.5 5.6 | 580 EX | 28-105 4.5 5.6 | 100-300 | etc...

beej

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 61
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #529 on: May 21, 2013, 11:40:34 PM »
Sure, we're all enthusiastic - that's why we are here, that's why we support the devs, and that's why we do what we can to help in the way of testing, bug reporting, feature suggestions and so on.

Enthusiasm is what made ML happen in the first place, and it's what keeps it moving forward, as long as the devs get a little respect and room to work - entitlement and impatience from the userbase doesn't really motivate these guys spending their time to do a quite difficult task...

djoulbdx

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Wine before Camera - ML before Wine
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #530 on: May 22, 2013, 01:55:38 PM »
EOS 7D needs You

We support them. We encourage them like many people can be fans of a baseball team. Not really subtle but enthusiastic ... perhaps too.

It is not a lack of respect. We can just show us our motivation. I can not help them to develop.

I can pretend not to be interested and waiting They manage and download the FW after and don't participate.

I prefer (bad?) humor, some winks... It is my opinion. But I can wait in silence too.
EOS 7D ML | EOS 5 (not D) | 15-85 3.5 5.6 | 580 EX | 28-105 4.5 5.6 | 100-300 | etc...

motopoppi

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #531 on: May 22, 2013, 03:32:12 PM »
Hi , this is my 1st post and as 7D owner I can only say congratulations for this well done job !  :)

I'm looking forward to a definitive porting of ML on 7D, and I've a question to put to developers : there is a evluation of power drain using ML on 7D ?

Bye

Sergio

feureau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #532 on: May 22, 2013, 04:12:16 PM »
Hi , this is my 1st post and as 7D owner I can only say congratulations for this well done job !  :)

I'm looking forward to a definitive porting of ML on 7D, and I've a question to put to developers : there is a evluation of power drain using ML on 7D ?

Bye

Sergio

Hi, Sergio. There is no difference in power drain when using ML compared to the default canon firmware alone.

markymark

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #533 on: May 22, 2013, 05:08:45 PM »
Just a quick question I read somewhere that magic lantern gives you the total number of shutter actuations taken with the 7D is that correct ?

feureau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #534 on: May 22, 2013, 09:05:55 PM »
That is correct. That number is actually stored by canon's default firmware. ML will display that information in the forms of: [number of times the shutter opens and closes for live view/movie mode] plus [number of times shutter has taken pictures] = [total number of actuation]

djoulbdx

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Wine before Camera - ML before Wine
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #535 on: May 22, 2013, 10:52:44 PM »
Menu-->DEBUG---> the 10th line
EOS 7D ML | EOS 5 (not D) | 15-85 3.5 5.6 | 580 EX | 28-105 4.5 5.6 | 100-300 | etc...

snakedoctor

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #536 on: May 23, 2013, 01:45:14 PM »
7D isn't compatible with UDMA 7 cards, so maybe we'll never see full HD raw video working on 7D.   :-*

I use a UDMA 7 card in my 7D, it works perfectly. It is from Trancend 400X

feureau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #537 on: May 23, 2013, 04:08:53 PM »
Although the 7D can record to UDMA7 cards, it seems the speed is limited to UDMA6 cards.

The 1000x cards on 5D3 can write at about 88MB/s, while on the 7d it tops out at about 66MB/s. A tad below the minimum needed for 1080p raw, it seems....

I'm seriously thinking of selling my 7D and get the 5D3 for the raw video...

djoulbdx

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Wine before Camera - ML before Wine
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #538 on: May 23, 2013, 04:13:53 PM »
This is not the same product and the same price. I can't make the same thing and I love believing that g3gg0 and the team will manage.
EOS 7D ML | EOS 5 (not D) | 15-85 3.5 5.6 | 580 EX | 28-105 4.5 5.6 | 100-300 | etc...

sharpmusic

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #539 on: May 23, 2013, 09:41:28 PM »
According the software media info I evaluated ML footage on my 7D and I am getting 89.6 Mbps on a UDMA6 card no less.

General
Complete name                            : Z:\Desktop\MVI_0285.MOV
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : QuickTime
Codec ID                                 : qt 
File size                                : 438 MiB
Duration                                 : 41s 8ms
Overall bit rate                         : 89.6 Mbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-05-11 14:42:01
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-05-11 14:42:01

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Baseline@L5.0
Format settings, CABAC                   : No
Format settings, ReFrames                : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=15
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 41s 8ms
Bit rate                                 : 89.6 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Original height                          : 1 088 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Original display aspect ratio            : 16:9

feureau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #540 on: May 24, 2013, 05:42:36 AM »
That's megabit not megabytes.

89.6 Mbps = 11.2 MBps. About 1/8th of a raw 1080 24p feed.

Digital Corpus

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #541 on: May 24, 2013, 06:13:18 AM »
Although the 7D can record to UDMA7 cards, it seems the speed is limited to UDMA6 cards.

The 1000x cards on 5D3 can write at about 88MB/s, while on the 7d it tops out at about 66MB/s. A tad below the minimum needed for 1080p raw, it seems....

I'm seriously thinking of selling my 7D and get the 5D3 for the raw video...
True, however you should consider this:
1920x1080 @ 24 fps --> 2,073,600 pixels, 14 bits @ 24 fps --> ~83.1 MB/sec
1920x900 @ 24 fps --> 1,728,000 pixels, 14 bits @ 24 fps --> ~69.2 MB/sec
1280x720 @ 60 fps --> 921,600 pixels, 14 bits @ 60 fps --> ~92.3 MB/sec

Drop 14 bit-depth to 12 bit-depth, which is about ~85.7%, and those numbers become:
~71.2, ~59.3, and ~79.1
This is dropping from 16,384 levels per channel to 4,096 levels per channel. In the real world, this is a negigable difference. Now, there will be a difference fropping from 12 bit to 10 bit, 4096 to 1024.

We can reduce the bandwidth a bit more by dropping the resolution and with how sharp and clean RAW is, we can upscale a touch to compensate. Not ideal, but if you have a clean image, there will not be any noticable difference. Let's try 1720x960:
1720x960 @ 24 fps --> 1,651,200 pixels, 12 bits @ 24 fps --> 56.7 MB/sec

This is a ~14% drop in bit-depth, ~11% drop in size, and voila! No one will notice the difference in resolution. You'll miss a focus pull more often than you will miss the resolution.

Now granted, the 7D's semi-unique architecture will make it insanely difficult to crack if we ever get RAW. But if it does, it will not be far behind the 5D3. It'll definately be better than the stock H.264.


Edit: We've had successful 1920x1280 recordings with the 5D3. This is a touch over 100 MB/sec
7D w/ ML | Tokina ATX 11-16 | Canon 24 mm pancake | Canon 40 mm pancake | Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS | Sigma 150-600 Sports

feureau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #542 on: May 24, 2013, 06:47:59 AM »
Those maths look really good, Digital Corpus! :D

I wonder if there's any work still being done on the 7D though. I haven't seen anything regarding the 7D in the bitbucket log or mentions of it anywhere lately.

mucher

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #543 on: May 24, 2013, 07:05:51 AM »
Using -16 flag in ML's menu, I got around 12mb/s bitrate,  only slightly more than the stock around 11mb/s bitrate, but the artifacts in screen are lookingly less than the stock bitrate.

Gippi

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #544 on: May 24, 2013, 07:18:23 AM »
Those maths look really good, Digital Corpus! :D

I wonder if there's any work still being done on the 7D though. I haven't seen anything regarding the 7D in the bitbucket log or mentions of it anywhere lately.

Hi, I believe that an alpha 3 is ready and waiting for release, or the work was interrupted because the Dev wanted to invest his time to work on the 5D.

i hope too ;)

currently i am testing the new/changed features what effect they have on 7D and if their behavior is intended.
and there are a lot new features.

there are news. i am working on 7D.
oh wait, its not new :)

just added ML's vignetting correction to 7D, but needs some testing.
maybe HDR can also get implemented that way. we will see.

well, yes. there will be a next alpha in the near future.
but there is no date yet, as it is done as spare time job and depending on workload in main job and in family,
i have some more or less time for it.

well, currently i am implementing some very interesting stuff: modules
that is something i want to have in the next alpha.

as the 7D is quite popular, that new concept will get a broad user base that tests it ;)
didnt do much 7D-specific stuff yet

the current state has a stability problem.
sometimes when switching mode between play and recording, the camera screen stays black.

dont expect a new alpha the next days.
sorry for that.


@all:
about the alpha 3: we are currently finding out a lot of interesting stuff.
as long we are still in this process, it makes no sense to release an alpha.
we are currently enjoying finding out how to use it for cool features.

then let us make those cool new features user-safe, and you will see a new 7D/5D3 alpha that will amaze you.

i am still working on YUV422 videos (continuous 12.5 fps works already).
i think it is able to record in RAW also, but first i want to get YUV422 working flawless.
will test it on 7D as soon it works on 5D3

djoulbdx

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Wine before Camera - ML before Wine
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #545 on: May 24, 2013, 07:45:03 AM »
Quote from: g3gg0 on April 26, 2013, 10:56:53 PM
Quote
i am still working on YUV422 videos (continuous 12.5 fps works already).
i think it is able to record in RAW also, but first i want to get YUV422 working flawless.
will test it on 7D as soon it works on 5D3

I hadn't never read this. I am happy, it is hopeful.

I was not sure that they continue to be concentraded by the 7D. I was afraid that they prefer forget, a little, the 7D to work on the 5Dmk3 and all the cameras which are a little more simple to hack.
EOS 7D ML | EOS 5 (not D) | 15-85 3.5 5.6 | 580 EX | 28-105 4.5 5.6 | 100-300 | etc...

_iLiam

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #546 on: May 24, 2013, 01:04:16 PM »
If you guys need any simple testing I'm here to help! I have no idea how to code but the least I can do is offer some testing and try to help that way. Thanks guys you're doing a sweet job!
| Canon 5D | Canon7D | 85mm f1.2 | 18-135mm | 50mm f1.8 | 70-200 f4 | 28mm f2.8 |
www.liamnewman.co.uk

sharpmusic

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #547 on: May 25, 2013, 09:53:12 AM »
That's megabit not megabytes.

89.6 Mbps = 11.2 MBps. About 1/8th of a raw 1080 24p feed.

Your math is good but someone please correct me if I'm wrong but "All" canon cameras are measured in bits not bytes.  Hence the term CBR=Constant bit rate, and I believe that's one of the reasons we install Magic Lantern to attain a higher "bit" rate, not bytes.  Even in the panasonic GH2 ptools hacks that attain 72Mbps, again measured in only bits as with most audio and video data rate analysis.


Bytes are usually used for the storage required here is the constant bitrate formula for RAW (uncompressed video):

Storage and Data Rates for Uncompressed Video

Constant bitrate formula: Uncompressed data rate = color depths * vertical resolution * horizontal resolution * refresh frequency
Examples
24bit @ 1080i @ 30fps :24*1920*1080*30=1.49 Gbps.
24bit @ 1080p @ 60fps :24*1920*1080*60=2.98 Gbps.
The storage and data rates for the widely-used YCbCr 4:2:2 chroma subsampling uncompressed video are listed below:
525 NTSC uncompressed
8 bit @ 720 x 486 @ 29.97fps = 20 MB per/sec, or 70 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 720 x 486 @ 29.97fps = 27 MB per/sec, or 94 GB per/hr.

Digital Corpus

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #548 on: May 25, 2013, 10:01:34 AM »
Your error was in notation. Upper case 'B' is bytes, lower case 'b' is in bits.

g3gg0 does plan on returning back to the 7D's development, but his focus lies on the RAW video development and regular life (I assume). Right now ML is running off of the slave CPU in the 7D. As far as he can tell, now RAW stream touches the slave. So, for the time being, maybe until the end of time, we will not have RAW video. However, we will get a good copy of ML. In earlier tests I've recorded 220+ Mbps h.264 video with CRB 20 on my Samsung 16 GB cards.
7D w/ ML | Tokina ATX 11-16 | Canon 24 mm pancake | Canon 40 mm pancake | Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS | Sigma 150-600 Sports

Digital Corpus

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2
« Reply #549 on: May 25, 2013, 10:03:48 AM »
Examples
24bit @ 1080i @ 30fps :24*1920*1080*30=1.49 Gbps.
24bit @ 1080p @ 60fps :24*1920*1080*60=2.98 Gbps.

1080i @ 60 fps == 1080p @ 30 fps, fyi. Interlaced means that there are half as many rows.
7D w/ ML | Tokina ATX 11-16 | Canon 24 mm pancake | Canon 40 mm pancake | Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS | Sigma 150-600 Sports