Reverse Engineered LogNetural/Tech.CineStyle Pic.Style HDMI ProRes+H264 test

Started by reddeercity, September 07, 2016, 05:40:54 AM

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Hi , Just like it says I did a Picture Style HDMI Capture & internal ML H264 Recording  of LogNetural plus TechCineStyle , C-LOG-htp , Canon Netural , Canon Standard , Canon Landscape & Canon Monochrome (Just for the hell of it :) .  I used a static Image with all setting the same on My 5D2  ,  I Also would to make note of the Color Space on the 5D2 , not all EOS camera internal recording is in Rec709 , the 5d2 and I not to sure about others record to SD color space in Full range and that's why for at least the 5d2 the Techincolor CineStyle works so will. Now 5D3 and other record in Rec709, so the LogNetural would be better suited Picture Style . That being said I found very little difference on my 5D2 between Techincolor CineStyle & LogNetural  . I notice a little more lift in the mids with Tech.CineStyle then LogNetural . To make this a good compare test I add 6 other picture Styles , Why you my ask ? will this is really to see how good the HDMI Stream is as it's effected by Picture Style from liveview . This would I did , Captured the HDMI Stream in 2 different formats & codecs. I captured to DPX 10BE RGB , Apple 10bit ProRes 422HQ(260Mb/s) & Apple 8bit YCbCr Uncompressed (1000 Mb/s) Once in FCPX I Screen Capture every Picture Style from h264 , prores , YCbCr & exported single frames from each file .
I'll post links to my dropbox to all the Screen Captures & exported Frames as png's also i'll have a link for the Single Frame DPX file too.
Dropbox DPX Frames , Dropbox Screen shots FCPX_Pic Style Test_H264 , Dropbox Screen Shots FCPX Pic Style Test_ProRes422HQ ,Dropbox Screen Shots FCPX_Pic Style Test_8bit_YCbCr Here a small Camera mov 29MB with the log metadata file LogNetural_H264 and also a small 60 MB ProRes 422HQ File LogNetural Apple ProRes422HQ
Below Camera Setting As per the Log file.
# Magic Lantern v2.3.NEXT.2014Feb16.5D2212
Lens name      : EF100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM
ISO            : 320
Shutter        : 1/38.872s
Aperture       : f/7.0
Focal length   : 100 mm
Focus distance : 1090 mm
White Balance  : 4800K, Magenta 0, Blue 0
Picture Style  : logNeutral (0,-4,-2,0)
FPS            : 23.976
Bit Rate (CBR) : 2.3x

Screen Shots FCPX H264 Time Line with Scopes

Screen Shot_FCPX_H264_LogNeutral_2016-09-05 at 7.21.31 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_H264_Tech_CineStyle_2016-09-05 at 7.23.34 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_H264_C-LOG-HTP_2016-09-05 at 7.25.51 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_H264_Neutral_2016-09-05 at 7.18.42 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_H264_Standard_2016-09-05 at 7.04.23 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr


Apple ProRes 422HQ 60i

Screen Shot_FCPX_HDMI_ProRes_LogNetural_2016-09-05 at 7.49.40 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_HDMI_ProRes_LogNetural_Scaled118%_2016-09-05 at 10.54.20 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_HDMI_FCPX_ProRes_Technicolor_CineStyle_Unscaled2016-09-05 at 7.52.40 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_HDMI_ProRes_Technicolor_CineStyle_Scaled118%_2016-09-05 at 10.46.03 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_HDMI_ProRes_C-Log-HTP_2016-09-05 at 7.55.43 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_HDMI_ProRes_C-log-HTP_Scaled118%2016-09-05 at 7.56.52 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_HDMI_ProRes_Netural_Scaled118% 2016-09-05 at 7.47.21 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr


Apple 8bit YCbCr Uncompressed

Screen Shot_FCPX_HDMI_YCbCr_LogNetural_Scaled118% 2016-09-05 at 8.31.37 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_HDMI_YCbCr_Technicolor_CineStyle_Scaled_118%_2016-09-05 at 8.24.24 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_HDMI_YCbCr_C-Log-htp_Scaled118%_2016-09-05 at 8.34.43 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Screen Shot_FCPX_HDMI_YCbCr_Netural_Scaled118% 2016-09-05 at 8.28.57 PM
by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr


Frame Export from FCPX Time Line ProRes Files

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr


Frame Export FCPX Time Line 8bit YCbCr Files

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr


Frame Export FCPX Time Line H264 Files

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

by RedDeerCityTV, on Flickr

Well that's not all of the screen shots , but you can link out to my Flickr page to see all shots , plus I have Dropbox links to All of the PNG's
and don't forget I also have Dropbox Video links to  a 60MB 1080 60i prores & 28MB 24p H264 file.

Thanks for your time , I'll be back with more comments & suggestions .  :)


Whoa--this is like the mother of all tests.

I'm about to get on a plane for a month long trip so I won't be able to digest all of this but it is quite an exhaustive test. I'm thinking that for HDMI external recording you might look into the EOSHD C-Log picture style. It is more "aggressive" than CineStyle but it should hold up fine in 4:2:2 Prores. I haven't done much testing with it.


Going thought some old files and came across some old Picture Style Profiles for film flat look
link to my dropbox Genesis_Panalog4_WIP I haven't tried it in many years.
If I remember right it was before techincolor cinestyle , but not as flat , more forgiving in the mids & nice cine-skin tones .


Found this on Vimeo
QuoteCanon Standard vs Superflat vs Marvels Cine vs Genesis Panalog Picture Styles from Hatch Studios
A visual comparison done for myself of the most commonly-used picture styles for cinematic video.
Canon Standard vs Superflat vs Marvels Cine vs Genesis Panalog.
These picture styles (with the exception of Canon Standard) provide a much higher dynamic range in your footage for greater creative freedom in post.

Camera: Canon 5D Mark II
Lens: Canon EF 50mm 1.4
Post: After Effects

I like the Genesis Panalog PS in this test I think it gives a good balance , on HDMI I'm betting it will give good range with out to much problem.


You shouldn't be judging a log picture style by its look. One of the reasons for shooting with a log gamma picture style is get as much of the sensor's dynamic range as possible. The result will be a dark, flat, ugly picture on the screen. You should use a monitor that accepts viewing luts to work with log picture styles. The Atmos Ninja Blade can accept various log inputs and display a normal looking image while recording the log signal.

There has been some debate whether it is possible to create a proper log gamma custom picture style using the Canon Picture Style Editor. In professional cinema cameras it seems that log can capture pretty much the same amount of dynamic range as shooting raw. The main difference when shooting log is that you've got to be careful to get the right color balance, in raw you can adjust in post. Speaking of post the big advantage of shooting log over raw is easier data wrangling.

In the current state of affairs with our Canon DSLR's log will never surpass shooting raw because the camera can only output 8-bit 4:2:2 through HDMI and record 8-bit 4:2:0 compressed H.264 internally. However, for many situations that is acceptable.

[EDIT] Take what I say with a grain of salt. Much of what I'm reporting here comes from conversations with friends who have much more experience with this stuff (S-Log, Log-C, etc.) than I do.