Author Topic: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference  (Read 42813 times)

joxxie

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1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« on: September 20, 2012, 08:38:20 PM »
Well according to EOSHD .. Andrew has confirmed by Canon that the only difference between these two cameras is firmware ..
hardware is identical. Any chance of getting the firmware off a 1DC and flashing onto a 1DX ? I am not talking about throwing
ML on there ... just seeing if it would be possible to port a 1dc firmware onto a 1dx .. seems the hardware and everything is the same.

http://www.eoshd.com/content/9044/exclusive-canon-confirm-1d-c-4k-dslr-is-same-hardware-as-the-1d-x

nanomad

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2012, 09:00:09 PM »
Sorry for holding up your post ... akismet flagged it as bad...

Are we actually sure the firmware is the only difference? IIRC Canon told they had to re-engineer some hardware due to heat disspation (but it may as well been a PR stunt)

If the firmware is the only difference and IF there's a firmware update lying around then there may be hope. But we will also need both camera bodies first .....
EOS 1100D | EOS 650 (No, I didn't forget the D) | Ye Olde Canon EF Lenses ('87): 50 f/1.8 - 28 f/2.8 - 70-210 f/4 | EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 | Metz 36 AF-5

a1ex

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2012, 09:08:05 PM »
Are you sure it's legal to do this in the first place?

See Apple-Psystar lawsuit about Hackintosh, it's very similar to this IMO.

I'm not going to try this.

joxxie

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2012, 09:09:30 PM »
no problem.

Well according to Andrew @ EOSHD .. he says he spoke to a Canon Europe person who told them there is no difference .. just firmware .. and of course a headphone jack. He asked him if there would be a paid firmware upgrade and the guy said no chance because the 1DC is taxed as a video camera and the 1DX is a stills.

I would buy a 1DX in a heartbeat if there was a chance. I was actually considering selling my mark III anyways for it.

joxxie

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2012, 09:12:14 PM »
Well people still doing Hackintosh's .. there are forums all around with guides etc .. Psystar was selling them .. so how could it be illegal if a feature gets enabled ? It's not like you would be buying 1Dx's and hacking the firmware then selling them as 1DC's for profit

nanomad

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2012, 09:13:00 PM »
As long as we don't provide the firmware files but just a patch we should be fine.
IANAL but the Psystar lawsuit was due to Psystar selling PCs with OSX installed. We are not selling nor re-distribuiting anything.
The OSX86 project is still going strong (and ML is more like OSX86 than Psystar)
EOS 1100D | EOS 650 (No, I didn't forget the D) | Ye Olde Canon EF Lenses ('87): 50 f/1.8 - 28 f/2.8 - 70-210 f/4 | EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 | Metz 36 AF-5

joxxie

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2012, 09:16:14 PM »
As long as we don't provide the firmware files but just a patch we should be fine.
IANAL but the Psystar lawsuit was due to Psystar selling PCs with OSX installed. We are not selling nor re-distribuiting anything.
The OSX86 project is still going strong (and ML is more like OSX86 than Psystar)

I agree .. you should not have legal problems .. you are just putting ML on this just like any other camera

a1ex

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2012, 09:16:51 PM »
I don't know, pirate bay didn't host any copyrighted work, yet... guess where are its founders?

We would be technically stealing a $6000 thing from Canon and giving it to everybody for free (or for donations).

joxxie

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2012, 09:20:20 PM »
not if you are just putting ML on this like the other cameras .. if that was true you would have been sued already i would think

the fact that you guys finally found a way around dual digic with the 7d .. perhaps the same process can be used on the 1dx ?

nanomad

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2012, 09:20:52 PM »
Well, anyway we are lacking a 1Dc and 1Dx firmware dumps. Until then, who cares.
EOS 1100D | EOS 650 (No, I didn't forget the D) | Ye Olde Canon EF Lenses ('87): 50 f/1.8 - 28 f/2.8 - 70-210 f/4 | EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 | Metz 36 AF-5

joxxie

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2012, 09:22:37 PM »
Well, anyway we are lacking a 1Dc and 1Dx firmware dumps. Until then, who cares.

I am on the fence about getting a 1dx .. have been for awhile .. might pull the trigger and if so i could do the dump on the 1dx provided you
tell me how .. 1dc on the other hand .. im sure once people get their hands on them they might do it as well

Marvin

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2012, 09:24:33 PM »
Andrew Reid is not a very reliable person in my opinion, there ARE some hardware differences, they are mainly about sensor cooling.

1D C is scheduled to go on sale this December (retail price €8038 or $10408), if a firmware update comes out later I think it's really worth looking into, because it's got all the "dream" features we want on a standard EOS DSLR, such as 1080 50p/60p, crop shooting, log gamma and MJPEG 4:2:2. Maybe we can take a look at how they implement these features and try them on 5D Mark III or other cameras, rather than porting the firmware to a 1DX.

However I believe these features are programmed to run on dual DIGIC 5+, so it's quite a challenge in my opinion.
Film is truth 24 frames per second.

nanomad

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2012, 09:25:44 PM »
There's actually a 1Dx 1.0.6 firmware update out. All we need to do is "just" dump the 1Dc firmware. Easier said than done :P
EOS 1100D | EOS 650 (No, I didn't forget the D) | Ye Olde Canon EF Lenses ('87): 50 f/1.8 - 28 f/2.8 - 70-210 f/4 | EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 | Metz 36 AF-5

a1ex

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2012, 09:27:57 PM »
ML is written from scratch, so it can be considered an interoperable product. We had to break some technological measures and perform reverse engineering to achieve the interoperability.

So I believe what we do with ML qualifies as "fair use", but porting firmwares from one camera to another does not. But I don't have any background in law stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention#Circumvention_of_Access_Controls

joxxie

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2012, 09:28:06 PM »
Well we will see. It seems that the EOSHD article about them being the same camera is making it's rounds on forums with people saying go ML go! lol. So you might start to see a bunch of donations incoming. ;D

joxxie

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2012, 09:29:51 PM »
ML is written from scratch, so it can be considered an interoperable product. We had to break some technological measures and perform reverse engineering to achieve the interoperability.

So I believe what we do with ML qualifies as "fair use", but porting firmwares from one camera to another does not. But I don't have any background in law stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention#Circumvention_of_Access_Controls

Well even if you cant port the firmware over .. enabling ML on the 1dx to shoot 4k or do clean hdmi out or 1080p 60p should be the same legally as enabling clean HDMI out on any of the canon cameras or 1080p 60p .. etc hypothetically speaking of course

nanomad

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2012, 09:30:25 PM »
So I believe what we do with ML qualifies as "fair use", but porting firmwares from one camera to another does not. But I don't have any background in law stuff.

Yep, that's my opinion too.
A binary patch (or simply copy/pasting ASM code from one firmware to another) is in the gray zone.
On the other hand, comparing the 1Dc and 1Dx routines to learn how to drive the image sensor in movie mode and then implement a ML 4k video mode is perfectly legal IMHO.

We could also get in touch with the EFF and ask their opinion on this matter. They ARE lawyers, after all
EOS 1100D | EOS 650 (No, I didn't forget the D) | Ye Olde Canon EF Lenses ('87): 50 f/1.8 - 28 f/2.8 - 70-210 f/4 | EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 | Metz 36 AF-5

a1ex

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2012, 09:34:29 PM »
Here, donations are contracts with no obligation for us, so... we can just say thanks :D

Quote
On the other hand, comparing the 1Dc and 1Dx routines to learn how to drive the image sensor in movie mode and then implement a ML 4k video mode is perfectly legal IMHO
... as long as the process is "clean room" afaik ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design ).

Marvin

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2012, 09:34:56 PM »
1D C is still a beta unit at the moment and there is no firmware update for it, also it's not publicly available yet. therefore a dump is not very practical at this time.

I'm going to hire an 1D X for a sport shoot in early October so I'm able to do a firmware dump if there is an interest.
Film is truth 24 frames per second.

nanomad

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2012, 09:37:06 PM »
We already have a 1Dx firmware :P
EOS 1100D | EOS 650 (No, I didn't forget the D) | Ye Olde Canon EF Lenses ('87): 50 f/1.8 - 28 f/2.8 - 70-210 f/4 | EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 | Metz 36 AF-5

joxxie

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2012, 09:38:30 PM »
There are 1DCs out there but I doubt the people that have them will dump the firmware .. since it people like Shane Hurlbut .. Still motion ...etc

Marvin

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2012, 09:39:10 PM »
Already got a dump? that's great, let's wait for 1D C and its firmware update then  ;D
Film is truth 24 frames per second.

nanomad

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2012, 09:46:04 PM »
Well, Canon was so kind to make one for us.
http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/7/0400000637/01/eos1dx-v106-win.zip
EOS 1100D | EOS 650 (No, I didn't forget the D) | Ye Olde Canon EF Lenses ('87): 50 f/1.8 - 28 f/2.8 - 70-210 f/4 | EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 | Metz 36 AF-5

Marvin

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2012, 09:50:16 PM »
This is just an update file yeah?

I remember when Alex and me was dumping the 5D3 firmware back in March, we need to get a full dump from the camera itself.
Film is truth 24 frames per second.

nanomad

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Re: 1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2012, 09:51:46 PM »
You may actually be right
EOS 1100D | EOS 650 (No, I didn't forget the D) | Ye Olde Canon EF Lenses ('87): 50 f/1.8 - 28 f/2.8 - 70-210 f/4 | EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 | Metz 36 AF-5