Crop mood - WYSIWYG Edition (650D / 700D / EOS M / 100D)

[theBilalFakhouri]

While using even the latest build on my 650D I have experienced trouble getting the shutter angle and shutter speed to display properly in the UHD 1x3 crop. I have been using the 16:9 aspect ratio, but I don't think that is important. When I use the buttons to adjust the settings, they do change (image becomes darker/brighter), and the "TV" followed by a number also changes (e.g. TV 5.6). I think it normally gets locked up while displaying 1/29 and 299 degrees. wondering if this is unique to my camera or if it is a known issue.

It's a known old issue which affect some 650D bodies, related to shutter blanking addresses and currnetly there is no solution to this issue. You didn't do anything wrong.
For now, you can rely on Canon shutter speed and set it from Canon overlay.

[eardrumfilms]

Could you give more details? I might be able to improve something.
I am not sure if I want to bring back 1080p 3x3 for 650D / 700D / 100D . . because they have native 1080p mode and it works better than crop mood 1080p preset.

I just like the crop mood menus a lot and bugs me a little to have to enter the raw menu to change resolutions and bitrates for 1080 and having to remember that I have to change them again for the crop mood modes. Loved having everything in one place because it made switching modes super easy but I see your point and understand why you prefer to deactivate that option too.
Thanks for your amazing work again!

[theBilalFakhouri]

Half Press x10 zoom WHILE recording dont work with Crop Mood, 700D, 2023May09. Ok, there is magic zoom 3:1 which is good and usable, but i loved x10 feature as a focus assist before crop mood.

Hi, x10 mode will not work while recording and can't work.

I think you are refering to preview zoom while recording in both Danne build and my previous build, crop mood build doesn't have it,
Currently I am not sure if it can be implemented without having corrupted frames and preview artifacts issues.

So congratulations and thanks Bilal for some impressive breakthroughs!

Thank you! I appreciate your words. I am glad that the new build was useful for you
Have fun!

People treated the camera as a toy or a experiment rather than a professionals movie camera,did a little bit random test then claim it stable.The stability test of a build should be brutal/professional...
..
can you trust the thing doing this ?

I'm still testing,12 bit 1080p still crashing in long takes!

ML project never intended to be professional, see:

professional-level project.

This is where you are totally mistaken. This is not a professional project. It is not intended to be a professional project. This is a spare time, hobby project that is just for fun. There are all kinds of disclaimers to this end.

I'm still testing,12 bit 1080p still crashing in long takes!

How long your takes are in minutes?
Consider sharing your settings and if the crash happened because you did something I am not awere of. For me, I never had crashing issues while recording.

[RhythmicEye]

Check if shutter fine-tuning is enabled.

Shutter fine-tuning is on and shutter set to 1/48th @23.976FPS (+0.65ms @1080p up through to +0.72ms @5.2K) and shutter lock is set to ON in "Movie Tweaks". I use this workflow in all modes to give me the 180º shutter angle I prefer to use in my shooting method.


This setting is a typical one I've always used with ML and never had this issue before. Maybe something has changed in Crop Mood that now makes this workflow redundant.

If that is the case I will just add a 1-2 stop or variable ND filter to my working method which I've been doing with Crop Mood anyway. I really like how it looks using this workflow, so maybe this will be my long term workaround if it's changed permanently.

Thanks for your reply
RE

[Danne]

Issue fixed when turned off? If so your settings have no effect on recordings and might as well be turned off. Even more so if you say you like your results.
Probably one of the hacks in raw video menu causing it. Learn those functions properly and what works or not.

[RhythmicEye]

OK will take a look and do some tests and report. That makes a lot of sense though, I just haven't had time to dig much deeper than getting all the basics working more or less flawlessly in each mode. Absolutely loving Crop Mood regardless...

And a huge credit to you for all your work over the years as well Danne.

Much appreciated!
RE

[RhythmicEye]

Issue fixed when turned off? If so your settings have no effect on recordings and might as well be turned off. Even more so if you say you like your results.
Probably one of the hacks in raw video menu causing it. Learn those functions properly and what works or not.

You're 100% correct Danne. I switched "small hacks" to ON instead of more and the issue is gone but so are the RAW performance gains. Recording stops after 40 seconds or so in 5.2K @ 12bit.

As suspected I'll have to compromise somewhere, which is fine, I just need to work out which is more important to me; 180º shutter angle or RAW performance 

Thanks again
RE

EDIT: The compromise solution I came up with to give me total control of the image capture process in "5.2K" RAW (no longer 5.2K but close enough) is below

Resolution: 1712x2184 (slightly reduced from 5.2K to 5136 x 2184 in MLV App)
Aspect Ratio: 2.35:1
Data format: 11bit
Small Hacks: ON
Shutter fine-tuning: +0.63ms
Shutter lock: ON
Shutter: 1/48
FPS: 23.976
Shutter angle: 180º
Sound: Off
SD Overclock: 240Mhz
Data rate: 72MB/s approx

SD Card: Sandisk Extreme Pro 170MB/s
Build: magiclantern-crop_mood.2023May09.700D115_Shutter

These settings are giving me pretty robust RAW performance even when over exposed significantly in controlled lighting. Have not tested in daylight conditions as yet and have not checked properly for image artefacts. Seems to be artefact free atm though

P.S I use aperture, ISO and ND filters to control exposure triangle

[RhythmicEye]

ADDIT: Further testing in 5.2K mode with Sound ON, same settings as above with the following tweak

Resolution: 1696 x 2164 (5088 x 2164 in MLV App)
Sound: ON

Works very nice in controlled lighting so far. Icon mostly orange and green with a little red occasionally in bright highlights but continuous recording is possible.

[theBilalFakhouri]

- When initiating recording from the x10 mode, I get a raw detect error or "recording stopped automagically" and a 2kb file is produced. I often frame first and then set focus in the x10 mode and start recording from there.

Hmm, never had this issue . . at least on 700D. If crop mood is active and you hit recording button in x10 mode, mlv_lite will set the preview back to x5 mode (normal preview), this commit.
The issue you mentioned is probably only happen on 100D, probably something related to buffer reallocation when changing among preview modes, I will check that soon on 100D.

- I occasionally get staggered horizontal lines in the preview.

These are normal, they appear because of changing preview configuration, more details, vertical lines issue.
on 100D, set focus box to center (horizontally) and they will be less visible.

- Pressing the up and down arrows around the set button crash ML, requiring battery removal.

More details are needed so I run a test, what was your camera settings?

[theBilalFakhouri]

I tested HDR video today and it works surprisingly well!
@bilal, the way you made it alternate between both ISO's slowly is genius.

This is an old good feature was made before my time, as Danne said, it wasn't me, it's a1ex work
I didn't change anything regarding HDR video in my fork, it's based on official crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd branch.

Is there a way to see the "Merged" image in mlv app? It would be nice if it behaved like dual ISO does..

You might want to ask MLVApp devs about this in MLVApp thread. It would be useful feature, yes.

[gabriielangel]

Shutter fine-tuning is on and shutter set to 1/48th @23.976FPS

Try setting your shutter to 1/42 (or the closest value, depending on the resolution you are using). That way, you don't need to use shutter fine tuning, and there is no appreciable difference. The image remains sharp down to 1/30 (unless you are filming fast cars, etc.). This allows you to use all the hacks and record 3K 12 bit for at least 30 seconds on a freshly formatted card. The gain in clarity / fov trumps the motion blur difference (if any) in my opinion.

By the way, to get the exact same motion blur I am used to at 1/48 on a Sony cam, I need to set my eos m to 1/44 - 1/46.

[theBilalFakhouri]

Just tested Crop mood's 1x1 full resolution 14 bit lossless fps = 3 mode on 650d. Basically, this mode is not working.

You need to turn off sound recording (beside 240 MHz, Small hacks to All/More), I mentioned this in first post, also in my build walkthrough video.

Is it possible to have L/R buttons change shutter speed ? I use manual lenses so it makes more sense to have Up/down buttons change ISO and have L/R buttons change shutter since those two are only things we can control with manual lenses.

It seems L/R from customize buttons doesn't do anything on EOS M, beside you can already change shutter speed using the wheel (check the linked video at 9:00).

Are the 100D focus pixels maps already available for MLVapp? If they aren't yet, is there any way we users with a 100d but without coding skills can help making them?

It's not available yet, there are old maps but might not fit for all of new crop mood presets. I answered here too with some info.

[theBilalFakhouri]

Thanks @RhythmicEye!

The issue I'm having is that I get a jump in exposure setting after hitting record. Exposure ramp is turned off and I've checked all my settings in both Canon and ML settings and there's nothing obvious to suggest user error.

This an old issue which is related to susepdning aewb task i.e when setting Small hacks to "More" also when using shutter fine-tuning.

As suspected I'll have to compromise somewhere, which is fine, I just need to work out which is more important to me; 180º shutter angle or RAW performance 

What about having both without a compromise :
I was able to find a workaround and fix the issue three days ago, this commit (no one noticed the commit? ). The fix will be available in next release, you can also compile from the source if you want.

[theBilalFakhouri]

P.S Do you have a "Buy Me A Coffee" account? :-}

Thanks! I appreciate it, currently I don't have a personal funding account, also I am not sure if I want to create one.
Well, you can probably still be able to support ML project by donating to ML bitcoin address (if you are familiar with Bitcoin).

[Danne]

Thanks @RhythmicEye!

This an old issue which is related to susepdning aewb task i.e when setting Small hacks to "More" also when using shutter fine-tuning.

What about having both without a compromise :
I was able to find a workaround and fix the issue three days ago, this commit (no one noticed the commit? ). The fix will be available in next release, you can also compile from the source if you want.

Hehe, good work!

[Mythic Cinema]

If I put a 1TB Sandisk Extreme Pro SD Card into the EOS M, will "Crop Mood" allow me to record in 1080p "Non-RAW" indefinitely with no recording limit (not Raw) for many hours? Also will it split the files or be one big video file? Asking because I want to use the EOS M as sort of a CCTV camera for like 5+ hours at a time (with external power) but Raw files would be too big in filesize for multiple cameras. I remember testing this on Danne's build, but if I remember correctly it might have had artifacts that would need fixed in MLV app, but you can only open Raw files in that. I may have done something wrong, though as I can't remember so don't quote me on that. I also only tested with a 64GB card until the battery ran out. In short, I just need to record in 1080p or higher without Raw for many hours without artifacts, basically. It would be cool to use a higher resolution, but I assume you can only do that with Raw Video. Thank you

[Walter Schulz]

5 hours: Sure. But not seamless. See https://wiki.magiclantern.fm/faq/#how_do_i_record_stream_for_more_than_30_minutes
You will get a bunch of MOV files. Most likely 3 for each 30 minute take.

If you can keep data rate below 59 MByte/s you may be able to record raw and seamless. Not sure how file handling will do, though. If you don't use ExFAT option (generate files > 4 GB) you will end up with more than 101 chunks and I don't know if file naming can count beyond *.M99. Using the ExFAT option with generate one big file and if anything happens during recording there is a chance file will not be closed correctly and manual bit level wizardry is required. No fun for files in the 900 GB area, I suppose.

[Mythic Cinema]

[Mod: full quote deleted]

Yeah I guess seamless would not be smart since it can get corrupted for important footage. I think using RAW will just take up too much space with 4 cameras for 5+ hours and keeping backups of all the data everytime I do it... but I will do a test and calculate anyway. Thanks for the reply!

[Walter Schulz]

I forgot: H.264 with Canon's default settings will only need around 5.5 MByte/s bandwidth. For 5 hours recording you just need
5.5 MByte/s x 5 x 3600s = 99,000 MByte.
A 1 TB card should be good for around 50 hours and you definetely don't need a fast and expensive Extreme Pro. Any Class 10 will do fine.

[Mythic Cinema]

Alright thanks. I will probably just get 256GB, but I get Extreme Pros always anyway for everything. How many hours do you think of 1080p raw you can get on 1TB?

[Walter Schulz]

Vertical pixel x horizontal pixel x frame rate x bit depth x compression factor / 8 = Bytes/s

1920 x 1080 x 24 x 14 x 0.4 / 8 = 34836480 Bytes/s = 33.3 MByte/s

953,674 / 33.3 = 28.639 seconds -> almost 8 hours.

[Mythic Cinema]

Thanks, Walter. That is pretty good. I might do that. Only issue is backup storage. Would have to remove any parts of the video that is useless.

[Mythic Cinema]

So with Crop Mood you can now use EOS M for streaming live good with HDMI?

[Walter Schulz]

Now?
It worked with lua_fix since 2020. And before with 30-min workaround.
No difference.

[RhythmicEye]

Try setting your shutter to 1/42 (or the closest value, depending on the resolution you are using). That way, you don't need to use shutter fine tuning, and there is no appreciable difference. The image remains sharp down to 1/30 (unless you are filming fast cars, etc.). This allows you to use all the hacks and record 3K 12 bit for at least 30 seconds on a freshly formatted card. The gain in clarity / fov trumps the motion blur difference (if any) in my opinion.

By the way, to get the exact same motion blur I am used to at 1/48 on a Sony cam, I need to set my eos m to 1/44 - 1/46.

Thanks Gabriielangel!!!

Good advise right here. I just needed a little kick to get past my pedantic nature to see the light. This little tip gave me the clue to get a fully functional set of modes from 1080p through to 5K. I had to make some tweaks in some of the more data intensive modes but more or less totally functional across the park. 3K is the most unstable and the only one where continuous recording is sketchy although it is possible in some conditions.

I'll do some day light testing in the coming days and report back with a detailed list for each mode.

Thanks again
RE