Crop mood - WYSIWYG Edition (650D / 700D / EOS M / 100D)

[bobolee]

This is why, especially if you already have a gimbal and focus pull system attached, cheap-o C mount lenses are the way to go.  8mm f1.6 and 16mm f1.4 sold by various vendors, such as Arducam,

I don't like any lens other than Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM because of the lens distortion issue of the ML system.If you shoot with the original cannon video function and with a cannon lens,the camera "knows" the lens distortion and will fix it automatically.The MLV APP has no lens distortion correcting function as far as I know,so if you want to get distortion free video,you have to use a lens with minimal distortion,that 22mm 2.0 lens has almost no distortion. CCTV lens?The idea itself is a laughable

[Jonneh]

I don't like any lens other than Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM because of the lens distortion issue of the ML system.If you shoot with the original cannon video function and with a cannon lens,the camera "knows" the lens distortion and will fix it automatically.The MLV APP has no lens distortion correcting function as far as I know,so if you want to get distortion free video,you have to use a lens with minimal distortion,that 22mm 2.0 lens has almost no distortion. CCTV lens?The idea itself is a laughable

I don't understand your reasoning here.

This presumably only applies to EF(-S) lenses used with an adapter with contacts. Such lenses used with a dumb adapter or non Canon lenses used with any adapter will show distortion in any mode. Correction can be done in post as normal, if desired.

Even then, certain types of distortion, such as moustache, are likely to affect heavily cropped capture areas less than they would an uncropped image since the flatter part of the moustache is what is cropped, meaning that one might get better results with this category of lenses/adapters in crop modes than in non-crop modes such as the Canon one.

Finally, one may like the distortion given by some lenses. My two most used wide angles are the 16-35 f4L and the Zuiko 24mm f2.8. If 24mm is wide enough for the scene, I often prefer to use the Zuiko because I find the corners produced by the Canon lens, sharp as they are and undistorted as they are, to be very distracting. They have a stretched out look that results from them being further from the image center than the adjacent image edges. They don't suffer from lens distortion but they are also very unnatural looking because of perspective distortion. The Zuiko with its mild moustache produces a much more eye-like scene.

[Skinny]

CCTV lens?The idea itself is a laughable

well I actually saw VERY good photos made with c mount lenses, there are some awesome lenses, very fast like 1.2 and you will never guess that the photo was made with c-mount.. I don't really like small sensors though (or small sensor area) but you can actually get very very very good results using c-mount.. Of course there is a lot of different lenses in this category and most of them are probably very crappy. But there are some vintage Japanese lenses that can give you very expensive look with lots of bokeh and character.

Finally, one may like the distortion given by some lenses.

Exactly  I always turn off lens correction

Basically with 1x3 modes you have a lot of resolution, and you can actually make your lens corrections in post, it should look better than canon h.264 with correction made on the fly.. I never tried, but it should be so, because you have more resolution and more processing power with better algorithms (you can use adobe camera raw for example, on DNGs)

[bobolee]

See the world as what it is!Any artifacts or distortion should be marked bad for a video capture system.You are free to use effects that not exist in nature to make your images look better for your personal taste,but a camera or a lens should always strives for the more accurate representation of the objective world.

[Jonneh]

See the world as what it is!

The world is quantum fields. Representing anything above that is a matter of what most closely resembles our experience. We can probably agree that very few people see purple fringing (although human eyes suffer from all sorts of chromatic aberrations, many of which are corrected or at least smoothed over upstream), but when we get into colour and perspective, pretty much everything is up for grabs.

[mlrocks]

Just tested Crop mood's 1x1 full resolution 14 bit lossless fps = 3 mode on 650d. Basically, this mode is not working. The script windows pops up for no reason. Also, at 3 fps AR 2.4 the calculated data flow is supposed to be around 40-50 MB/s according to ML, yet after only 1 frame recording stops. This behavior is very similar to the old version before Crop Mood.
I am redeploying my 650d to a dedicated time lapse camera, so this mode is critical to me. I am sure many other MLers like the full res 1x1 mode too. Once trying some full res 1x1 footage, I guarantee more will be addicted to it.
Thanks a lot to Bil's great work!

[desertman520]

I don't like any lens other than Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM because of the lens distortion issue of the ML system.If you shoot with the original cannon video function and with a cannon lens,the camera "knows" the lens distortion and will fix it automatically.The MLV APP has no lens distortion correcting function as far as I know,so if you want to get distortion free video,you have to use a lens with minimal distortion,that 22mm 2.0 lens has almost no distortion.

On the Eos M original, only peripheral illumination and chromatic aberration are corrected in camera, not geometric distortion.  However, as other have pointed out, using 1x1 and being cropped in on the sensor makes the best use of the less distorted center of the image circle.

CCTV lens?The idea itself is a laughable

I humbly submit a posting of a video I made earlier this year using a danne build. 

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=26758.0

It’s 2520x1080, shot variously either stopped down or, once it gets dark, wide open.  You may judge the level of distortion, but for a $70 USD lens it would be far more laughable to try and put a hulking piece of glass like a sigma 16mm f1.4 m mount on, or even a viltrox or something for several times the price.  I tell you, it’s a gimballer’s dream lens.  Some CCTV lenses do have bad distortion, but you can usually check a data sheet ahead of time.

[gabriielangel]

Just tested Crop mood's 1x1 full resolution 14 bit lossless fps = 3 mode on 650d. Basically, this mode is not working. The script windows pops up for no reason. Also, at 3 fps AR 2.4 the calculated data flow is supposed to be around 40-50 MB/s according to ML, yet after only 1 frame recording stops. This behavior is very similar to the old version before Crop Mood.
I am redeploying my 650d to a dedicated time lapse camera, so this mode is critical to me. I am sure many other MLers like the full res 1x1 mode too. Once trying some full res 1x1 footage, I guarantee more will be addicted to it.
Thanks a lot to Bil's great work!

Have you tried turning sound recording off before recording? The way Bilal stated it in the first post suggests that no sound will be recorded when using that mode, but for it to work, you actually need to turn sound recording off.

[amitkattal]

Is it possible to have L/R buttons change shutter speed ? I use manual lenses so it makes more sense to have Up/down buttons change ISO and have L/R buttons change shutter since those two are only things we can control with manual lenses.

[Skinny]

See the world as what it is!

That's not for me, it will be so boring... I will never pick up a camera that just records 1:1 everything as you see it.. 
Why everyone loves film for example? Maybe not everyone but a lot of people..

My favorite lens is Jupiter-21m and this is just the opposite side of what our eyes can see. I love magic that camera can give us. I love anamorphic lenses with all their unusual distortions, flares, depth of field and everything.. It is just so beautiful

I don't know guys, everyone can do whatever they want of course.. For example painters, some of them do hyperrealism but it is often considered... let's say not as much of an art, because any camera can do that now And you should express your soul and your unique vision through the art. Or maybe not, art is a very broad term and can go in any direction.

So it is your job to select camera/lens combination so it will suit your ideas and creative process, maybe you want to show the world exactly as it is, maybe not

[aiyik]

I don't like any lens other than Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM because of the lens distortion issue of the ML system.If you shoot with the original cannon video function and with a cannon lens,the camera "knows" the lens distortion and will fix it automatically.The MLV APP has no lens distortion correcting function as far as I know,so if you want to get distortion free video,you have to use a lens with minimal distortion,that 22mm 2.0 lens has almost no distortion. CCTV lens?The idea itself is a laughable

The EF-M 22mm is undoubtedly a very good lens but get your facts straight: MLVApp is the culprit because it does have lens correction profiles (CA + distortion + vignetting), which are automatically applied, recognized and cannot be toggled off. If you want to deactivate those you'd have to grade using CinemaDNGs inside RawTherapee/Lightroom/CameraRAW/etc.

Besides, any decent CCTV or industrial lens is on par if not superior to the EF-M kit lenses (uncorrected). They have wider fields of view on both Canon's (x1.66) and Bilal's/Danne's various crop factors and way, way faster apertures (i.e f/0.95 25mm Schneider-Kreuznach's Xenon). Not to mention the vast selection of other adapted C-mount lenses that were meant for video/photo/Bolex/whatever (Angénieux, Berthiot, Wollensack etc). Heck, even some properly adapted D-mount lenses are just as good if you can achieve infinity focus.

The only true downside to all those manual lenses is the lack of stabilization.

[eardrumfilms]

Are the 100D focus pixels maps already available for MLVapp? If they aren't yet, is there any way we users with a 100d but without coding skills can help making them?

PD: probably there are other forums where we can debate about lenses, optical distortion and the nature of reality. The Crop Mood ML build is something complex and interesting enough and this thread used to be a great source of information.

[Walter Schulz]

Are the 100D focus pixels maps already available for MLVapp?

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=26511.msg239140#msg239140

[dpjpandone]

The EF-M 22mm is undoubtedly a very good lens but get your facts straight: MLVApp is the culprit because it does have lens correction profiles (CA + distortion + vignetting), which are automatically applied, recognized and cannot be toggled off. If you want to deactivate those you'd have to grade using CinemaDNGs inside RawTherapee/Lightroom/CameraRAW/etc.

Besides, any decent CCTV or industrial lens is on par if not superior to the EF-M kit lenses (uncorrected). They have wider fields of view on both Canon's (x1.66) and Bilal's/Danne's various crop factors and way, way faster apertures (i.e f/0.95 25mm Schneider-Kreuznach's Xenon). Not to mention the vast selection of other adapted C-mount lenses that were meant for video/photo/Bolex/whatever (Angénieux, Berthiot, Wollensack etc). Heck, even some properly adapted D-mount lenses are just as good if you can achieve infinity focus.

The only true downside to all those manual lenses is the lack of stabilization.

You open with "get your facts straight" then end with an opionionated rant about "the superior quality of CCTV lens" ?  How about posting some charts or citing reputable sources that your analysis is based on? 

[dpjpandone]

Is it possible to have L/R buttons change shutter speed ? I use manual lenses so it makes more sense to have Up/down buttons change ISO and have L/R buttons change shutter since those two are only things we can control with manual lenses.

scroll the wheel

[ilia3101]

MLVApp is the culprit because it does have lens correction profiles (CA + distortion + vignetting), which are automatically applied, recognized and cannot be toggled off. If you want to deactivate those you'd have to grade using CinemaDNGs inside RawTherapee/Lightroom/CameraRAW/etc.

None of this is true. There’s no correction that can’t be toggled off in MLV App. And there’s no distortion capability in the app at all.

Besides, any decent CCTV or industrial lens is on par if not superior to the EF-M kit lenses (uncorrected).

Now that you know, feel free to demonstrate this using MLV App :)

[RhythmicEye]

New Crop mood builds are out:
May.09.2023

3K 3072x1308 got semi full real-time preview



Added 30 FPS to 1280p 1:1 preset




Changes:

• Added 30 FPS for 1280p 1:1 preset.
• Now autofocus in normal preview at lower bit-depths like 10-bit is as accurate as in 14-bit (when using crop mood and lossless).
• AF method will be switched to FlexiZone Multi automagically when using manual focus, preview works better with this in 3x3 presets.
• Implemented semi full real-time preview for 3K 1:1 preset, only 2868 from the middle are being showing in preview from 3072 horizontal pixels.
• Hidded 1080p 3x3 preset from crop mood for 650D / 700D / 100D (you can use 1080p mode from Canon, crop mood isn't needed in this case).
• Implemented a simple workaround for ISOless errors for 650D / 700D (works on 700D, 650D needs testing).
• Fixed horizontal blurry line artifact which appears in some 1x3 presets which affect RAW data.

Crop mood builds - Downloads

Thanks once again for all your excellent work Bilal. Just a spectacular leap in functionality with Crop Mood and with each iteration it gets better.

I have one issue to report on my 700D which is happening in both April release and in the May release as well.

The issue I'm having is that I get a jump in exposure setting after hitting record. Exposure ramp is turned off and I've checked all my settings in both Canon and ML settings and there's nothing obvious to suggest user error.

Exposure jumps one to two stops to the right and it is absolutely consistent across all ML files for about 1 second so it's not too hard to compensate for. It can be seen clearly on the scopes in MLV App as well.

I've also been told by one other person via YT comments that this is also happening on his EOS M. Makes it hard to have confidence that I'm exposing correctly but it does seem to be exactly the same jump in exposure in all lighting conditions. Could be why some users are struggling with over exposing in the highlights when out doors.

My compensation technique is to under expose by one to two stops from what I see on the monitor and scopes when setting my exposure.

Have you or anyone else experienced this issue or know someone who has?

Build: magiclantern-crop_mood.2023May09.700D115_Shutter

So far that's the only real issue I'm having but I'm doing more real world testing today, I'll report any further findings in the coming days.

Thanks again
RE

P.S Do you have a "Buy Me A Coffee" account? :-}

[theBilalFakhouri]

I have a clean fix for 650d isoless, here: https://github.com/reticulatedpines/magiclantern_simplified/tree/650d_isoless_err_fix

Thanks for sharing, will check it later.

Hi, can anyone with a 100D using crop mood comment his experience recording on the 1x3 5.2K mode, 2.35:1 at 23.976fps, resulting in 1736x2214 size?
I get constant crashes on this mode, no matter the bit rate.

It seems 1736x2214 isn't stable on 100D, sometime it works but most time it doesn't work? My previous tests using April 01 I had it working through my tests (maybe I was just lucky in these tests).
Reducing resolution to something like 1728x2206 or 1712x2184 (from crop_rec.c) might make it stable or by reducing FPS a little and keeping 1736x2214 is another a way to make it stable.

Will look into it soon.

[theBilalFakhouri]

unfortunately, I only can record highest resolution for couple seconds though. is it normal?
setting I use: all hack, sd 240Mhz others is default.(14-bit lossless, crop mode 1x1 or 1x3, etc.)

At high resolutions you might want to reduce bit-depth to lower than 14-bit lossless if you need continuous recording because 14-bit is a lot of data to write.
Try 12/11/10-bit lossless.

and got some issue when using 1x1 full res. in 10x mode.

I might help if you could share more info about what's happening.

[theBilalFakhouri]

Thanks @eardrumfilms!

Is there any way we can help making the 100D focus pixel maps?

Firstly we to get a single frame for each Binning mode at maximum resolution:

-5208x3478 in 1:1 (maybe we already have the map for this?)
-1736x3478 in 1x3

Then we more likely need to follow dfort tutorial about creating focus pixel maps, maybe it's somewhere in this topic.
We can already get 5208x3478 1:1 with crop mood build (Full-Res preset). I will need to create 1736x3478 1x3 preset in order to get a frame.

I will into 100D focus pixels maps this week.

It seems there's an old bug (it's also on Danne's builds) that makes the camera bypass the manual audio level settings everytime the cameras are powered off therefore it's needed to enter the canon menus so the camera remembers the settings each time.

Thanks for mentioning this, I thought manual audio level settings don't work with RAW recording, this thing was definitely bugging me on 700D.
I will look into it and see if I can do something, will check what's the status on 5D3 too (does it have the same bug?).

Could it be posible to add an option to change the prefix of the mlv filenames so each camera has distinctive file names?

Should be possible yes, and it seems useful in some ways. I will try to add an option in RAW video submenu to customize MLV file names.

PD: I kind of miss the CROP MOOD 3x3 1080 setting as it prevented me from tinkering with the RAW Video settings and affect the other modes.

Could you give more details? I might be able to improve something.
I am not sure if I want to bring back 1080p 3x3 for 650D / 700D / 100D . . because they have native 1080p mode and it works better than crop mood 1080p preset.

[amitkattal]

Thanks @eardrumfilms!

Firstly we to get a single frame for each Binning mode at maximum resolution:

-5208x3478 in 1:1 (maybe we already have the map for this?)
-1736x3478 in 1x3

Then we more likely need to follow dfort tutorial about creating focus pixel maps, maybe it's somewhere in this topic.
We can already get 5208x3478 1:1 with crop mood build (Full-Res preset). I will need to create 1736x3478 1x3 preset in order to get a frame.

I will into 100D focus pixels maps this week.

Thanks for mentioning this, I thought manual audio level settings don't work with RAW recording, this thing was definitely bugging me on 700D.
I will look into it and see if I can do something, will check what's the status on 5D3 too (does it have the same bug?).

Should be possible yes, and it seems useful in some ways. I will try to add an option in RAW video submenu to customize MLV file names.

Could you give more details? I might be able to improve something.
I am not sure if I want to bring back 1080p 3x3 for 650D / 700D / 100D . . because they have native 1080p mode and it works better than crop mood 1080p preset.

Regarding audio gain control. I was able to find a solution from very old forum post. Maybe it might help?
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5951.msg98839#msg98839

[ML700D]

At high resolutions you might want to reduce bit-depth to lower than 14-bit lossless if you need continuous recording because 14-bit is a lot of data to write.
Try 12/11/10-bit lossless.

I see.. thanks.

I might help if you could share more info about what's happening.

I forget the step but AFAIK I changed to 1x1 full_res LV then press 10x mode and record from there after that when I changed to 1280p error message appeared on the screen

[BatchGordon]

Is there a way to disable entering ML menu when doing a two-fingers tap on the screen?
Sometimes I enter it by mistake just taking my eosm.

[Mehmet Kozal]

The issue I'm having is that I get a jump in exposure setting after hitting record. Exposure ramp is turned off and I've checked all my settings in both Canon and ML settings and there's nothing obvious to suggest user error.

Check if shutter fine-tuning is enabled.

[theBilalFakhouri]

But when you autofocus while recording, it goes into framing mode. This makes it hard to know when focus has been nailed.

I did some research and it turns out that's actually a bug and it seems it's presented in 650D / 700D / 100D / EOS M, and it's not there on 5D3.
I implemented "preview toggle" option as temporary solution.

-Bug details:

This part of code in mlv_lite.c is resnospile for preview toggle on half shutter press, while autofocusing, Framing preview must not be triggerd:

Code: [Select]

    /* only override on long half-shutter press, when not autofocusing */
    /* todo: move these in core, with a proper API */
    static int long_halfshutter_press = 0;
    static int last_hs_unpress = 0;
    static int autofocusing = 0;

    if (!get_halfshutter_pressed())
    {
        autofocusing = 0;
        long_halfshutter_press = 0;
        last_hs_unpress = get_ms_clock();
    }
    else
    {
        if (lv_focus_status == 3)
        {
            autofocusing = 1;
        }
        if (get_ms_clock() - last_hs_unpress > 500)
        {
            long_halfshutter_press = 1;
        }
    }

    if (autofocusing)
    {
        /* disable our preview during autofocus */
        return 0;
    }
BTW lv_focus_status is coming from property. From property.h:

Code: [Select]

#define PROP_LV_FOCUS_STATUS    0x80050023 // 1 = idle, 3 = focusing in LiveView
On 5D3 while autofocusing in LiveView in both photo and video modes, lv_focus_status value change to 3, and to 1 while idle.
On 700D (and others) while autofocusing in LiveView in photo mode, lv_focus_status value change to 3 but in video mode it stays 1 even while autofocusing and that isn't what's mlv_lite is expecting.

To fix the bug in affected models we need to find a variable in Canon code which work in the same way as PROP_LV_FOCUS_STATUS to get autofocus status in video mode.

-in 1x3 modes, it is possible to change the aspect ratio in the crop mood menu. I don't know if it is intended to be this way, as it is not possible to do so in 1:1 modes (Where you have to change it in the Raw Video Menu)

I answered this question earlier in this thread. I have a plan to get rid of of aspect ratio from crop mood submenu, and link aspect ratio from RAW video submenu to crop mood.
It could be simpler this way, beside you will have one aspect ratio setting.

Also, I might do the same thing with bit-depth.

-When in 2.5k 1:1, the preview shows vertical lines on screen when using lower bitrates. The lines become more visible as you go down bitrates (No lines at 14bits--->Very visible lines at 10bits). Those lines are not recorded in the file.

That's normal, they appear because we are tweaking preview configuration and what you see is the dark frame subtraction data for the preview.
They mainly appear because of using negative analog gain when using lower bit-depths, it could be there a way to control dark frame subtraction layer strength for the preview.

They also appear in other presets, but they look distorted because of changing horizontal RAW resolution (it should match dark frame subtraction resolution to appear correctly).