Author Topic: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso  (Read 890 times)

Alexmach

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5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« on: October 22, 2021, 10:27:47 AM »
Hello everyone.
I still love ml raw but i am having issues when i edit it.
My work flow is:
Mlv app export to dng davinci , just a small color correction in davinci and export to h264 or apple dnxhr 444 12bit (my sharpen is 0)
i ve tried other codecs too but results are same
i get noisy footage even in low iso (160 - 320) , its kinda look weird. i am not sure if its noise or some kinda of sharpen effect.   
I would very very appreciate for any help.

You can see it more clearly at the background tree

In the original file is more noticable
its like aliasing problem


Walter Schulz

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2021, 10:43:16 AM »
Share unprocessed footage.
And give more info about
Build used
Resolution settings
cropped/uncropped
And why 160/320? This is actually recorded in 200/400 (internally) and computed to 160/320 ...

Alexmach

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2021, 11:17:42 AM »
Thanks for the response
Unprocessed you mean the mlv files ?
built raw video 10 - 12bt 2019 mar24 5d2212
1856x1044 12bpp 16:9 uncropped
About the iso i looked on the dng files and it say it was shot 160 iso (in my 5d mark ii 100 iso is more noisy than 160)


Walter Schulz

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2021, 11:28:10 AM »
About intermediate ISOs: https://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/the-riddle-of-intermediate-iso-setting
About your settings: You are shooting without additional Anti-Aliasing-Filter, I suppose. And therefore you have to fight line skipping artefacts in post. See https://wiki.magiclantern.fm/glossary#line_skipping

Alexmach

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2021, 12:00:22 PM »
and how do i fix the problem ?

Walter Schulz

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2021, 01:46:12 PM »
Use crop/"anamorphic" modes or get yourself an additional AA filter. Lookup VAF by Mosaic Engineering.

Alexmach

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2021, 04:19:15 PM »
Can i fix it now in post ? Unfortunately i have shot a documentary in this way

Walter Schulz

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2021, 04:34:40 PM »
Fixing aliasing in post will not work as well as avoiding it. There is a reason most CFAs (like your sensor) are equipped with a low-pass AA filter in front. Your camera has one, too but it is not designed to fight 3:1 line skipping. And this is the reason why 5D2's MOV looks mushy. Canon applies a low-pass filter in post (quite at the beginning) and tries to sharpen it at the end.

But I don't have much experience in postprocessing said line skipping.

Skinny

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2021, 06:32:40 PM »
you can get rid of color aliasing with mask around problematic area (track the mask if object moves) and use something like "desaturate color aberrations" in that area.. it can help. you can also blur slightly some annoying areas or use extreme motion blur on them.. but don't expect too much from it.

Alexmach

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2021, 07:04:51 PM »
well i found this tutorial As i was carefully examine my footage i found that i have 2 problems.
The first one is very sharpen edges  and the second is moire where ever is a pattern
Too much trouble in most of my shots.
I still want to shoot with magic lantern cause the colors and the feeling is amazing.
Can anyone tell what might has caused this problems ? What can i do in my next shooting ? Beside crop or anamorphic shoot.
I saw footage from other 5d ii raw users without problems.
 

Walter Schulz

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2021, 07:56:18 PM »
Can anyone tell what might has caused this problems ?
I already told you. Aliasing by line skipping without proper AA filter.

What can i do in my next shooting ? Beside crop or anamorphic shoot.

Avoid anything causing aliasing/moiré. Not very practical.
Use VAF.

I saw footage from other 5d ii raw users without problems.

But do you know which mode they used and if VAF came into play?

Alexmach

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2021, 06:36:21 PM »
Sorry for my insist but maybe something else is happening also.
I worked a lot in 2018 with ml raw , with a different 5d mark ii and i never noticed so much trouble especially with over sharpen edges.
In the file example its easily to see how much big is the problem now. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ctdcm59nbocq5aj/davinci%20shots.mp4?dl=0
The other thing that was weird is that my workflow is mlv app -> dng -> davinci -> apple prores or h264
but when from mlv app i convert to h264 or apple proress 422 the problem is hardly noticeable.

Walter Schulz

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2021, 07:26:54 PM »
Maybe if you link unprocessed footage (and some details about settings used in post) somebody would be able to reproduce your issues.

Kharak

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Re: 5d ii raw , noisy footage even in low iso
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2021, 11:30:07 AM »
Link a few DNG‘s that are problematic. How do you expose? Do you ettr? Do you under expose?

Regarding your resolve output. I can‘t speak for Prores, but it is well known that the Resolve h264 encoder is sub-par compared to other encoders.

If your delivery requires h264/5, then you are better off exporting a Prores master and then use adobe encoder to convert the prores to h264.

The 5d2 is more noisy than 5d3, the line skipping introduces a lot of artifacts, especially in body of water or foliage. Basically elements that have high frequency of details or changing details.

Over-sharpening, as long as you are working with mlv/DNG, you are the only one who can introduce this over-sharpening. Again, post some dng‘s.
once you go raw you never go back