Author Topic: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii  (Read 1823 times)

jamesd256

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Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« on: February 28, 2021, 01:25:15 PM »
Hi,

Looking for help choosing which model to go for:

 - I like the power of ML.  You could even say I'm partly doing this just to play with ML, I know it's not very pro.
 - Low light performance is a big one
 - Would like to get the best bang for buck for raw video
 - Good stills shooting performance
 - I have quiet a few m42 primes.  It's my Takumar collection I'm most concerned about, but this requirement could go if all the others are met
 - Sensor crop for zooming video would be good (t2i didn't have that last time I played)
 - Good resolution output for capturing (t2i / 550d I had before was not full HD)
 - Willing to spend £500-700, but if something is £1k and just way better, I'm interested

Any suggestions/tips most welcome.

Thanks

I've been looking at s/h 5d mkIII's on ebay and they go for about £500 body only.
5D3, 550D

Kharak

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2021, 05:37:18 PM »
The ML Flagship is the 5D MK III.

It has the highest resolutions and slow-mo capabilities.

Best low-light off all the ML Cameras

CF and SD Card Slot (Requires a Minimum 1000x CF Card)

Continues Lossless 14 Bit RAW recording

Almost no Aliasing or Moire.

Its the obvious choice with your budget.
once you go raw you never go back

IDA_ML

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2021, 07:34:59 PM »
One more vote for the 5DMkIII.  An absolutely fantastic camera for full-frame RAW video!  Provides very stable performance with the latest experimental ML buids.  Here is a sample to give you an impression about the low-light performance in the anamorphic video mode:


jamesd256

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2021, 08:20:47 PM »
Ah thought so, but I really appreciate the replies and the vid.  After just a little of my own research, I realise my question was a bit lazy, so thanks again.

Low light performance apart, I wonder if there was a sense of how much ML Raw 14 bit closes the gap on the latest generation of sensors and processsors in terms of image quality ceiling. 

That video is a damn good advert.  What's most impressive is how the busker makes a guitar sound like a piano.
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IDA_ML

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2021, 06:02:58 PM »
I wonder if there was a sense of how much ML Raw 14 bit closes the gap on the latest generation of sensors and processsors in terms of image quality ceiling. 

I don't know what you mean by "image quality ceiling" but it is quite obvious that you cannot compare the sensor of a 8-year old camera with the most recent sensors.  Still, for RAW video, the 5D3 can provide stunning quality results.  Using the anamorphic full sensor readout mode and exposing to the right, I can easily go up to ISO 3200 and the image quality is quite acceptable, even at ISO 6400 with some noise reduction in post.  This mode works quite well with Dual ISO too, since its vertical resolution is enough for that.  Dual ISO values as 200/1600 and even 400/3200 provide excellent dynamic range and very clean shadows in poorly lit high-contrast scenes, such as street videography at night.  A down side of this mode is the low 15 fps cadance limit but once you learn how to move your camera slowly and smoothly, using a stabilized lens and/or a gimbal, it provides very pleasing results with a charming motion blur.

You can't go wrong with the 5D3.  At the current price point, if you find one in a good condition, it is worth every penny.  You have to be patient with it but once you learn how to squeeze every bit of performance and image quality out of it, you will be more than pleased with the results.

jamesd256

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2021, 10:08:56 AM »

Well thanks for the reply it's appreciated.   Also I am just a hacker and el cheapo guy who gets a kick out of anything 'custom firmware'.  One reason for this is I don't like waste.  It's great if you can add pro features in software to entry level prosumer gear, because then the hacker can learn techniques associcated with these features and with a bit of effort produce results that can come pretty close to acceptable for a pro.

I don't know what you mean by "image quality ceiling"

I mean the best image quality available today, but I'm referring to the prosumer price bracket.



but it is quite obvious that you cannot compare the sensor of a 8-year old camera with the most recent sensors.


Yeah that's what I mean when I talk about the gap

I've just spent a while reviewing all the cameras that actually do 4k30 raw, and although I imagine many could be had for a similar price s/h to the 5d3, I'm highly doubtful any will come close in terms of features to explore and learn from that 5d3+ML affords.  Not to mention that the 5d3 is still a bit of a rolls royce for stills.

I guess the answer will be get a 5D3 and then add a s/h latest gen mirrorless camera in a similar price bracket to widen out options

I'm just really happy after all these years of not having time (kids, work!) that the community is still at it, and A1ex is still active

5D3, 550D

IDA_ML

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2021, 06:31:45 PM »
I guess the answer will be get a 5D3 and then ...

Good luck and don't forget to share some of your hopefully stunning 5D3 videos with us!

jamesd256

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2021, 02:57:47 PM »
Dived in!  £629, 45k shutter actuations, looks in decent shape, hope the sensor's OK.  Wish me luck.

Now I have to try to forget about it for a week while I wait.  Wish me luck.  I've watched a couple more '4k' raw efforts on youtube, and it just has me marvelling at the rendering in places:



Huge thanks again to everyone who made this possible.  It really makes a difference that the toolset ML gives you is a labour of love and is done to freely grant access to learnings and results like this.  Going out and dropping a few k's on a pro camera and getting these results wouldn't feel the same to me.
5D3, 550D

ChristianEOS

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2021, 03:35:56 PM »

 I would thank Danne he must have worked a lot on the 5.7 k if I would be a Millionäre I would donate some money for the genius that made this beauty :)

https://magiclantern.fm/donate.html
Christian Bruno James

nikki

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2021, 06:28:01 PM »
I have the 5d2 and 3 great cameras..professionally use     I shoot mostly on super 16mm film cameras
but these two cameras in the digital realm are in the big leagues with alexa and red

jamesd256

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2021, 06:47:18 PM »
Great to hear the further feedback, and of course special thanks to Danne and everyone who helped make this miracle possible.

My 5d3 adventure got off to a good start, the thing is almost flawless and has that low shutter count.  Couldn't be happier.

It has 1.3.6 firmware, as expected, so I'm looking to get it back to 1.2.3 and get going with ML now. 

However none of the links/pages I have found actually link to the 1.2.3 .fir file, so I'm stuck for now.

Does anyone have a link?

Thanks
5D3, 550D

Dmytro_ua

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5d3 1.1.3 exp | Canon 16-35 4.0L | Canon 50 1.4 | Canon 100mm 2.8 macro
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Walter Schulz

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2021, 06:58:10 PM »
However none of the links/pages I have found actually link to the 1.2.3 .fir file, so I'm stuck for now.
Does anyone have a link?

Top of page -> Downloads -> Download nightly builds -> 5D Mark III 1.2.3 -> Installation and or -> Useful links.

ChristianEOS

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2021, 07:41:49 PM »
I would advice firmware version 1.1.3. It has the extra display settings
Christian Bruno James

jamesd256

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2021, 10:12:10 AM »
Thanks for the suggestion.  I still haven't been able to find a definitive comparison of 1.1.3 and 1.2.3 and how to choose based on your needs, so apologies if I've missed this.

I understood that from 1.2.1 onwards uncompressed HDMI output was supported.  I must confess after an hour of searching, I'm still not clear what these display settings are about, which is almost certainly me being thick, but I tried.

I would like to use the camera for raw in the field, but in the studio will be looking to run HDMI from it quite a bit
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Walter Schulz

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2021, 10:46:10 AM »
I still haven't been able to find a definitive comparison of 1.1.3 and 1.2.3 and how to choose based on your needs, so apologies if I've missed this.

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=14704

jamesd256

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2021, 12:42:03 PM »
Brilliant, thank you so much, I'll get better at knowing where to look.

So if anyone reads this and is in my position, you may conclude like me that the uncompressed HDMI out in 1.2.3 is not worth throwing away all the 'display options' as mentioned above.

I like to work with a hoodeye outdoors on manual glass so digic peaking and zebras are a must.

If I understand correctly, 1.2.3 can do 4:4:4 over HDMI while 1.1.3 is going to be 4:2:2.  I'm curious to know what practical differences I should expect based on what others have experienced in the image q between the 2 over HDMI, and it could be other factors than the sampling compression
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Walter Schulz

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2021, 12:54:32 PM »
Why don't you test both HDMI options for yourself?
And AFAIK it is 4:2:0 vs 4:2:2.
See https://www.atomos.com/compatible-cameras/eos-5d-mark-iii and they must be talking about 1.2.x (and higher) because 1.1.x (out-of-the-box, without ML) doesn't have clean HDMI.

ChristianEOS

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2021, 09:10:00 PM »
Wouldn't the Quality in RAW be the only file type you can edit in mlv app?
Christian Bruno James

jamesd256

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2021, 11:40:31 PM »
Wouldn't the Quality in RAW be the only file type you can edit in mlv app?

Yes the HDMI out would be recorded in whatever format you specify when taking from the capture card.

Why don't you test both HDMI options for yourself?
And AFAIK it is 4:2:0 vs 4:2:2.
See https://www.atomos.com/compatible-cameras/eos-5d-mark-iii and they must be talking about 1.2.x (and higher) because 1.1.x (out-of-the-box, without ML) doesn't have clean HDMI.

Yes you are right, the problem was my incorrect understanding that only 4:4:4 is uncompressed.  I thought because 4:2:2 has half the chroma data it was compressed, which proves a little knowledge in the wrong hands can be dangerous. 

https://learnmediatech.com/chroma-subsampling-444-vs-422-vs-420/

On further reading it seems this change in output is of no consequence to me, therefore not wishing to compromise on the things 1.1.3 does better, it's unlikely I'll try 1.2.3 as there will be no reason
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jamesd256

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2021, 12:26:33 AM »
Top of page -> Downloads -> Download nightly builds -> 5D Mark III 1.2.3 -> Installation and or -> Useful links.

Those links from the forum are not working for me, neither version downloads:

http://pel.hu/down/eos5d3-v123-win.zip
http://pel.hu/down/eos5d3-v113-win.zip

https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magic-lantern_dannephoto_git/downloads/

It appears that that repository of Danne only contains ML firmwares, not Canon ones.

So, if anyone else could suggest where to grab that 1.1.3 file it would be a great help

EDIT: looks like those forum links point to the CHDK repository of Canon firmwares, and it seems like pel.hu is down for now
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jamesd256

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2021, 12:40:39 AM »
I finally found it here:

https://www.touslesdrivers.com/index.php?v_page=23&v_code=34540

Really dodgy looking site though
5D3, 550D


jamesd256

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Re: Good choice of second hand Canon in 2021 - Looking 5d mkiii
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2021, 08:49:45 AM »
Strange one, those links don't work for me in Chrome when clicking direct from the forum links, but work in Firefox.  Also if I go to https://pel.hu/down/ I can click and download in Chrome as normal, so there is some problem in Chrome or at my end.

Anyway, back on 1.1.3 and all seems good, thanks
5D3, 550D