SD Overclocking - DIGIC 5 only

[bobolee]

Hi everyone. I have tested my new Sandisk Extreme Pro, upgraded version - READ 200 and WRITE 140MB/s and I am using the crop_mood.2023May09.700D115 in my 700D camera.
...

Have you changed the photo shooting settings to raw format in original Canon menu?

[Walter Schulz]

Interesting, we need to find a better 240 MHz configuration in this case, unfortunately I can't work on it since I don't have an affected SD card.

Can do test runs on 650D if it helps.

[theBilalFakhouri]

@Walter

Does your Sandisk Extreme PRO 200 MB/s 256GB drop to 21 MB/s when recording (OC at 240 MHz)?
To find out try recording at 80 MB/s maybe until you fill the card, try peviewing the clips between recording sessions.

[Walter Schulz]

Benchmark in mode PLAY-PH LCD
w 94.5
r 105-7
w 95.2
r 106.1

Running record tests now.

EDIT: Looks like unstable with 240 MHz and Access mode SDR 104. Recording will stop with message "expected more frames ...) and fallback to 20 MByte/s. SDR50 not having this problem.
First test, may have to do more thorough tests.

EDITEDIT: Correction: More stable. A lot more stable. But will fallback to 20 MByte/s and stopping recording. Got a 30 GB file and 8:26 recording -> Around 60 MByte/s.

Q: Next steps?

PS: Ah, have to redo tests. Not configured correctly. Will retest tomorrow.

[theBilalFakhouri]

@Walter

Thanks for the tests, so it does drop to 21 MB/s after some time with SDR104?
Could you try the same test but this time on EOS M instead of 650D using the same SD card? Is it stable there?

[Walter Schulz]

650D: It stops after mere seconds with SDR104.

[bobolee]

This micro sd card was getting 20MB/S and recording halt randomly when using standard sdr105/240mhz overclocking,but yesterday,I find that sdr50/240mhz mode got a full card recording without any problem,just like recording with my old 128GB 95MB/s sd card in sdr105/240mhz mode does.
Tested in 30+ ℃ ambient temperature.3x3 1080p 16：9 30fps ,global draw all disabled to minimize CPU usage.Will test more in the future to make sure it is 100% reliable even in harsh environment .
Another conclusion is that SanDisk Mico sd and sd are equal for the use of ML cameras,both works the same,but micro sd version of extreme pro is about half the price of SD version.

[Walter Schulz]

Bilal, you checked my results with Samsung PRO Plus 256GB "K" Series? https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=26932.msg244103#msg244103
No issues with SDR 104 at all.

Now testing Sandisk Extreme Pro R200/W140 and EOS M.

Benchmark looks fine with 95 MByte/s for write in PLAY-UNK.

SDR104 and SDR50 act quite similar: Forced stop after some minutes. 17GB and 8.x GB in first run.


It looks like Samsung is performing a bit better!

[theBilalFakhouri]

Thanks for the test, so EOS M with Sandisk Extreme Pro R200/W140 at 240 MHz didn't drop to 21 MB/s in all tests unlike 650D?
If yes, that's because 240 MHz preset configuration on EOS M is different from the one on 650D:

1- Hyprid method was used on EOS M i.e 240 MHz for write and 192 MHz for read while on 650D it's 240 MHz in both write/read
2- 240 MHz preset on EOS M is different from the one on 650D (I mean registers values in this case).

I think it worth adding an option to toggle among "240 MHz" and "240 MHz (H)" presets for 650D / 700D, "240 MHz (H)" could be more stable on some SD cards.

[Walter Schulz]

I have *no* problems on both cams running benchmarks! Both cards perform well with SDR 104.

I can do at least 6 minutes (haven't tested longer sessions yet) with Samsung PRO Plus and 1280p mode. For both cams.

Have to redo some tests to see if fallback mode is present after breaks for Sandisk card.

EDIT:
=======
Nope!
EOS M. This time Sandisk took 10:03 in 1280p mode to break down after going "red" a few times. SDR 50 mode.
And it *does not* fallback to 20 MByte/s. Benchmark in movie mode is around 77 MByte/s after forced stop.

Calculated 83.3 MByte/s for recording.

=======

[Damiafix]

Hi everyone,

I would like to share my experience with a card which is not listed as a good choice for 240Mhz overclock, but it works to me.

Camera:  Canon 5d Mark III
Firmware: 1.1.3
ML settings:  card spanning and 240mhz overclock activated.
ML build: Danne's crop rec 4k_mlv_snd_isogain_1x3_presets_2023Feb03.5D3113
SD card: Lexar Professional 1667x SD card 128 GB, SDXC UHS-II, up to 250 MB/s. (camera low-level formatting)



CF card: Lexar Professional CF 128 GB 1066x (160 MB/s) UDMA 7 (camera
low-level formatting)
PC card reader: Trascend TS-RDF9K USB 3.1/3.0

Benchmarks in video mode

Sd card benchmark:

Sd and CF card benchmark:


Benchmarks in photo mode:
Sd card benchmark:

Sd and CF card benchmark:


CrystalDisk Mark benchmark:


According to the list of Sd 'working' cards under 240Mhz overclock, I bought a SanDisk 128 GB Extreme PRO, SDXC up to 200 MB/s, UHS-I, Class10, U3, V30. Unfortunately overclock doesn't work properly, in my case. I mean it works for a while and I can run some benchmarks:

Benchmarks in video mode:

160Mhz overclock

192Mhz overclock

240Mhz overclock


If I try to record a video, under 240Mhz overclock, the camera becomes unstable. After that, if I run any benchmars I get unreal speed readings:

240Mhz


Nothing to do even lowering the overclock to 160Mhz
160Mhz


The camera, paired to the overclocked SandDisk, isn't stable at all. The situation doesn't change switching from SDR 104  to SDR 50 or warming  the card up.  Peraphs the problem is just limited to such a card. 

My SanDisk 128 GB Extreme Pro:


<a href="https://ibb.co/FKSNtfd">

CrystalDisk Mark benchmark:
</a>

Under PC, values seem to be coherent with the results of other users. 

Any possible setting before returning it to the seller (bought by Amazon) and buying the 170mb/s version? It would be warmly appreciated.

Thanks for your support.

All the best.

[Walter Schulz]

Can you share a screenshot with Sandisk Extreme Pro R200/W90 showing those read numbers?

[bobolee]

It seems that this SanDisk card has no problem in EOS M/700D,but 5DM3

[Damiafix]

It seems that this SanDisk card has no problem in EOS M/700D,but 5DM3

Hi Bobolee,

thanks for writing. It is a bit weird since there are users who have a similar setup as mine, and they can overclock the SanDisk extreme pro 200mb/s keeping the camera stable. I am trying to understand if it is a problem of settings or the card itself.

[names_are_hard]

The name written on the card doesn't mean much.  Sometimes they're fake, sometimes they're legit but the same name is used for a different production run with different characteristics.

Bobolee is speculating and doesn't really know if there is some camera / card incompatibility.  Personally I think it's unlikely.

Listen to Walter, he has lots of experience in this area.

[Damiafix]

The name written on the card doesn't mean much.  Sometimes they're fake, sometimes they're legit but the same name is used for a different production run with different characteristics.

Bobolee is speculating and doesn't really know if there is some camera / card incompatibility.  Personally I think it's unlikely.

Listen to Walter, he has lots of experience in this area.

Thanks so much, it makes total sense. Just to share some other infos about my piece of SanDisk Extreme Pro, It follows what ML CID Info reports.

The card seems to be made by SanDisk:


And I have to say that the package seems to be genuine too:

Can you share a screenshot with Sandisk Extreme Pro R200/W90 showing those read numbers?

Walter are you referring to me? I am not sure.

Best.

[Walter Schulz]

Walter are you referring to me? I am not sure.

Sorry, missed the pics you shared. I see the problem now.
I'm a bit confused TBH. It doesn't look like an error I seen before.
Are there any other modules loaded? If so: Please re-test with only bench.mo and sd_uhs.mo loaded.

[Damiafix]

Sorry, missed the pics you shared. I see the problem now.
I'm a bit confused TBH. It doesn't look like an error I seen before.
Are there any other modules loaded? If so: Please re-test with only bench.mo and sd_uhs.mo loaded.

Hi Walter,

thanks. The only modules I am using are sd_uhs.mo and bench.mo.


The card does accept just SDR104, with SDR50 the access to the card itself is compromised and ML doesn't work properly.


Anyway on yesterday, after turning all the modules off/on by "Debug/Disable all modules"and rebooting ML a couple of times I progressively set the overclock to 160Mhz, 192Mhz and finally to 240Mhz and I have been able to run some benchmarks and record some videos outside. It seemed to work for a limited period of time, but the camera became unstable forcing to reboot it frequently. It happened with all the overclock configurations.

I think that with such a card the main problem is the 'read' and not the 'write', even though the camera is too unstable.

In fact If I try to play a recorded video I frequently get error messages. After that rebooting ML is the only solution.
It follows one of the errors which I get during the play:


They follow the VIDEO settings, with all the hacks activated (with or without hacks makes no difference):







Canon settings. I don't know if they can affect the stability, but with the SD Lexar Professional 1667x SD card 128 GB, SDXC UHS-II, up to 250 MB/s and the same settings I have no problems.


Anyway I wish confirming the usability of the Lexar Professional CF 128 GB 1066x, which even under 240Mhz overclock gives back very good numbers (and it works very well with the Lexar SD):


The benchmark SD (SanDisk Extreme Pro 200mb/s) + CF under 240Mhz, when the camera is still a bit stable, is good too:


I don't understand what's the issue with the SanDisk Extreme Pro. I will probably return it if I can't find a solution.

Thanks for any advice. Best.

[123kid]

Hey,

i dont if somebody has this issue, but i can only record with on my 5dmarkiii about 18mb/s write speed.
i used several san disk pro extreme sd cards..but i cant get more than 20mb/s write speed.

i have the 5dmarkiii with firmware 1.2.3 and the latest magic lantern version on the sd cards...

any help?

[Walter Schulz]

Please do not crosspost/spam.

[123kid]

Someone testet a sd/tf card with a Cf Card Adapter??

i will test it if there are any speed changes..

https://www.amazon.de/Yunseity-Speicherkarte-Kartenleser-Speicherkartenadapter-Hochgeschwindigkeitskamera-Schwarz/dp/B09GG2959L/ref=sr_1_11?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=1EXMKPGFIILBI&keywords=cf%2Bcard%2Badapter%2Btf&qid=1697374166&s=computers&sprefix=cf%2Bcard%2Badapter%2Btf%2Ccomputers%2C95&sr=1-11&th=1

[Walter Schulz]

No support by ML project.
https://wiki.magiclantern.fm/faq#ml_won_t_work_with_my_sd-to-cf_adapter

[gabriielangel]

Why Benchmarks are not enough.

I saw a few posts on the fb ML group, people reporting problems recording with certain cards.
Hopefully, the following will help a little.

Let's take those 3 cards:

Samsung Pro Plus 128GB (MDT:2023/05) - item "G" in the picture below
Samsung Evo Plus 128GB (MDT:2023/04) -  item "H" in the picture below
Sandisk Extreme Pro 256GB (MDT:2022/06) - item "B" in the picture below



Looking at the individual benchmarks:
(240 MHz / SDR104)

Samsung Pro Plus 128GB (MDT:2023/05)


Samsung Evo Plus 128GB (MDT:2023/04)


Sandisk Extreme Pro 256GB (MDT:2022/06)


Now, let's see how those benchmarks compare to real world results.

Edit: I found out that some cards seem to have some kind of built-in thermal management. After recording for a while, those cards enter into safe mode and stop recording until you restart the cam. The harder you push it (Data Rate wise), the sooner the problem appears.
So, it would be advisable to record a few clips (About 5-10, more details later) where the recording light alternates between orange and red before testing. This would warm up the card and hopefully expose the problem sooner, if present...

Edit 2: I also benchmarked the cards to get a "Continuous" Green value (Those numbers are included in the posts where I test individual cards)

Updated Method: (Open the aperture to the maximum and use the slowest shutter speed available. Set "Kill Global Draw" to ON on the Camera.)

I recorded the Test Chart linked at the end of the post on a monitor at 2.8k, 2.39:1 AR, 23.976fps; and used a variable ND filter on a bright lens (ef-m 32mm f1.4).
You may need an aperture of at least f2.8, because the Monitor may not be bright enough to yield high Data Rates.
Focus slightly off-focus until all the moiré on screen disappears (Moiré and pixels will make the compressor work unnaturally hard).

1)  Max Orange Speed

First record slightly overexposed at 14bits, and then slowly close the ND filter in small increments, and record again until the camera manages to record continuously for 1 minute.
This is usually the point where the light is orange and briefly turns red once and a while.
If it can't reach the 1 minute mark, and you closed the ND filter to the point where the image is too dark to be useful, lower the bit depth to 12bits and try again.

Once it reaches 1 minute for 2-3 recordings, Open the ND filter in tiny increments, record, and repeat  until it can't reach the 1 minute mark anymore.

And finally close the ND filter in small increments again, and repeat until the camera records for 1 minute.

Record a few clips. If those all record 1 minute or more, this is the speed for "Maximum Orange" (Max. Speed).

2) Max Green Speed ("Continuous")

First record slightly overexposed at 14bits, and then slowly close the ND filter until you get a steady Green light.
You will need to do several recordings in a row to get to the highest possible Green point. You may get Green, and still get Orange on the next recording.

After pressing Record, The light must become Green before or at second 2 onwards. If you still see Red or Orange at second 2, you're still too high.

Once you get 3 consecutive recordings where you get Green at, or before second 2, and it stays that way for 1 minute; you've got it. This is the speed for "Maximum Green" ("Continuous").

3)  Max Red Speed (This is to check a card's resiliency to sudden changes in Data Rates)

First record slightly overexposed at 14bits, and then slowly close the ND filter in small increments, and record again until the camera manages to stop recording by itself after about 15 seconds.

With some cards, it is very hard to get repeatable results because we are at the card's upper limit, and that's what we are trying to find out.

Record a few clips. Once you reach a point where it always stops by itself around the same number of seconds, (On some cards, that point was between 15 and 18 seconds);
take the lowest MB/s number (Or the most frequent) and this is the speed for "Maximum Red" (Peak Speed).

This test chart generates files about 5 MB/s faster than the most I usually get when shooting outdoors on a bright day, with similar histogram / false colors values
(I usually expose with histogram between 1.1 and 0.8, some red, but nothing showing black on false colors).
I chose 2.8k/14, as running a single test gives you an idea of what you'd get at 3k 1:1/11; 5.2k 3x1/11; 4.8k 3x1/12; and everything below at 14bits.

Samsung Pro Plus 128GB (MDT:2023/05)


This card is not stable at 240MHz. In order to get the results above, I had to restart the camera after each take! Trying to record twice in a row results in the camera going into safe mode (The 240MHz in the Overclocking section of the camera becomes dim) A camera restart is required to go back to 240MHz. When overclock is at 192MHz, the card behaves normally, but at slower speeds. One of the reasons why it is important to do more than 1 recording!

Samsung Evo Plus 128GB (MDT:2023/04)


This card would not record more than a few seconds at 2.8k, even when severely underexposed.
It managed to record 2.5k at 62 MB/s (True to benchmark).

Sandisk Extreme Pro 256GB (MDT:2022/06)


Although this card had a lower number than the Pro Plus in the benchmarks, it gave the best performance at 86 MB/s without any throttling.

When looking at the Data Rate Graph on a PC (Not included here), some cards have momentary dropouts (and even Bursts) of up to 20 MB/s! The card with the highest sustained speed / fewer (or Shallower) dropouts wins.

Now, although this has been said before, it's always nice to have everything in the same place:
Why does the camera stops recording "Sometimes"?

Excluding camera related hiccups, because we're recording in Lossless, Scene complexity and exposure have an effect on Data Rate; and so does scene composition!
A closeup with a big blurry background has a significantly lower Data Rate than a landscape where everything is in focus.
Any change in brightness (Shiny object crossing the frame), complexity (tree branches) or change of focus while recording can change the Data Rate and put it above the Maximum the Cam / Card can handle.

If you look at the examples below, every take was recorded outside on the same day, within about 1.5 hour. The Data Rates are all over the place. When you see 14bits followed by a 12bits take, it's because I had to lower the bitrate to be able to record the exact same scene.




You can also find more examples in a previous post: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=25781.msg240610#msg240610

If you want to test a card with the chart I used, here it is:

EDIT: One thing to keep in mind is that, because I were looking for the absolute peak data rate I could get for 1 minute, framing isn't too important. But depending how close or far you are from the screen, the same data rate will be achieved with more and less exposure respectively, as when you are further away (Up to a point) the details become smaller and are harder to compress (But when you are closer, you get more brightness from the screen so...!). If someone were to compare data rates across presets, framing would need to be identical and exposures would need to be matched...

Tested on Eos m, with magiclantern-crop_mood.2023Aug19.EOSM202.zip, Small Hacks set to more, Camera in af mode.

The official 240Mhz Overclock cards compatibility page: https://wiki.magiclantern.fm/cards_240mhz

[Walter Schulz]

Thanks! Will try to reproduce ASAP and will esp. retest with my Samsung Pro Plus 128 GB (2021 edition)

Questions/Remarks:
Samsung Pro Plus in blue exists in 2 different varieties: 2021 and 2023 edition. You will find a couple of strings on card's backside. "MB-MD128K" or "MB-MD128S". Which one are we talking about here?

I tested EVO Plus 128 GB (2021 edition) and it failed @240 MHz and it is marked as failed in linked chart.
Just out of curiosity: Can you post a pic of card's back?

(EDIT: I know not to trust benchmarks. I have cards with stable benchmarks @280 (sic!) MHz  but unable to record. My test routine is not as sophisticated as yours but include record test as well. Needs to be refined, though!)

EDIT2: Any luck with "Sandisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s"? It worked perfectly with older oc modules but my specimen fails with new one in 650D. And because of mechanical issues it can't be used in my M. 

[gabriielangel]

Thanks! Will try to reproduce ASAP and will esp. retest with my Samsung Pro Plus 128 GB (2021 edition)

Questions/Remarks:
Samsung Pro Plus in blue exists in 2 different varieties: 2021 and 2023 edition. You will find a couple of strings on card's backside. "MB-MD128K" or "MB-MD128S". Which one are we talking about here?
MB-MD128S

I tested EVO Plus 128 GB (2021 edition) and it failed @240 MHz and it is marked as failed in linked chart.
Just out of curiosity: Can you post a pic of card's back? (Can't connect anything atm, so:)

MB-MD128K (with a little checkmark after)
MBMCDGVGDBCW-CW-5
KPVK119T2317

Made in Phillipines

EDIT2: Any luck with "Sandisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s"? It worked perfectly with older oc modules but my specimen fails with new one in 650D. And because of mechanical issues it can't be used in my M.
I don't have that card, but will let you know when I find one. I am also curious about the Lexar x1667 UHS-II. If someone who owns one wants to chime in...

Answers in red in the quote above.
I will add the other cards specs as I get to properly test those.

EDIT: @Walter, when you test the EvoPlus128GB, try recording the first take for 5 minutes. Yesterday, the card seemed fine at  first. I suspect there is some kind of thermal throttling going on...