Danne's crop_rec_4k experiments for EOS M

[Janke]

OK, you definitely have a different terminology within this ML forum than what's used in the graphics & animation industry where I worked for 40+ years...

But it's all cleared up now, thanks to all for your help.

[2blackbar]

That 1080 crop mode that we have now was kinda in ML but through 2.5k mode if you reduced resolution to 1920x1080 and that mode didnt had fluid liveview  but recently it was achieved by Bilal , he found the regs to display cropped 1:1 1920x1280 with fluid liveview , therefore we can have 1920x1080 now, but having that in H.264 is not even that interesting for most coders here since we have RAW.Sure it can save space but its only 8 bit.But i guess you still want h.264 anyway...
Im not sure if there were any experiments to write other resolutions to h.264 like 2.5k besides canon built in ones , maybe it would have to be coded from scratch (h.264 compression) and maybe mjpeg would be faster to achieve, at least its what i remember alex wrote somewhere on forums.
I dont think ML has access to canons in camera h.264 compression on that level where we can save whatever resolution we want in h.264.

[Janke]

But i guess you still want h.264 anyway...

Indeed! I wouldn't fancy converting hours and hours of raw footage to a format I can edit in Final Cut Studio 7. (Yes, I'm an old dog, thus never learned the new tricks of FC X...)

So, I'm happy enough with the current 3x crop.

Big thanks to the whole community!

[IDA_ML]

@Janke,

Please consider seriously what masc suggested in post #4455.  SD cards are cheap these days, you can film in 1920x1080 1x1 RAW and do all the grading in MLVApp - very easy and intuitive and free of charge.  Then you can export your footage in H.264 or H.265 which provides even compacter file size and delete the MLV originals if you don't need them.  Conversion can be done overnight while you sleep.  Please give it a try and once you see how easy you get these stunning quality videos, I am sure, you will never ever look back to your current workflow.  The only downside is the crop factor but a cheap wide angle lens will be more than enough for what you film.

[Francois_lune]

Hi there, so much work done in the last weeks, that's great, thanks !

Does the 4K preset react differently than the other ones when working with the half-shutter trigger ?

I'm using the Half-shutter trigger to records MLVs, the trigger is sent from a Super-8 projector (Telecine), it's working well with the 2.5K mode and the 5K anamophic too but the 4k mode is not capturing the pictures in sync. Slowing down the projector at around 6fps and recording 10bits doesn't help.

Not sure that it's simply too much data to write or if there is something I didn't understand with this preset...

[Janke]

@Janke,

Please consider seriously what masc suggested in post #4455.  SD cards are cheap these days, you can film in 1920x1080 1x1 RAW and do all the grading in MLVApp - very easy and intuitive and free of charge.  Then you can export your footage in H.264 or H.265 which provides even compacter file size and delete the MLV originals if you don't need them.  Conversion can be done overnight while you sleep.  Please give it a try and once you see how easy you get these stunning quality videos, I am sure, you will never ever look back to your current workflow.  The only downside is the crop factor but a cheap wide angle lens will be more than enough for what you film.

Sorry if I still don't get it -

You say "1920x1080 1x1 RAW" and "The only downside is the crop factor" - does this mean that the 1920x1080 RAW is still recorded with the Canon FW 3x feature already in the earleir ML vesrions, and then upscaled from 1728x1152 ?

That whole 1:1 terminology makes me dizzy... 

[Walter Schulz]

RAW is raw. There is no up-/downscaling!
There is crop mode (1:1 = every single pixel in a given frame is used) or uncropped mode (using the whole sensor area but horizontal pixel binning and vertical line skipping).
With 5D3 as exception. The only ML supported cam where uncropped mode is in fact 1920x1080.

[Nigel95]

Couple of questions about this amazing little beast thanks to all the developers

1. Is there a way to get a useable 16mm equivalent field of view (FF) with the canon 10 - 18 @ 10mm with EOS M with Magic Lantern Raw? With the 1736x976 16:9 mode maybe?
2. Is it correct if you shoot the 2.5k raw mode that you will end up with a (canon 10-18 @ 10mm) 10x1,6 (APS-C)x3(ML)x0,71 (speedbooster) = 34mm field of view FF?
3. Any other modes with good quality for 16mm (FF) FOV?
4. Is the 1736x976 raw mode with no additional crop beside the 1,6 APS C crop? Is this mode useable in terms of aliasing (especially because this is an UWA lens), what is the max ISO that is useable with noise reduction plugin like Neatvideo? With my 200d I can clean up to ISO 3200 pretty well, but like to stay <1600.
5. What is the max focal length I can reach with a 60mm macro lens in raw with all the different modes on the EOS M. And if there is a huge crop option this also makes it harder to use in low light right? What is the useable ISO in the highest raw crop modes.
6. Is it possible to shoot 25fps with EOS M in raw?
7. Are there any 16:9 aspect ratio modes with higher resolution / quality then 1736x976?

[2blackbar]

Its too time consuming to answer all your questions and do calculations so.. yes you can record 25fps in raw and this is how framing looks like in different crop modes on canon m compared to sensor sizes.
theres 2.5k crop ( wide one)and other 5xzoom crop thats 16:9 .
From what i tested, you can use lenses for 16mm cameras and 1/2'' sensors in canons 2.5k crop mode without vignetting.
I have 4-12.5mm lens thats a bit fisheye, if you could find non fisheye wide lens for tv cameras , maybe it would work but these are not HD lenses anyway, they wont be as sharp and buying new lenses for expensive tv cams  that have 1/2'' sensors is missing the point IMO.

[sm105]

I was starting to answer his questions too, but he should really just watch a few of Zeek's helpful videos, and he'll get a lot of answers. This one in particular will answer a lot of questions on the Canon 10-18mm.

[ZEEK]

1. Is there a way to get a useable 16mm equivalent field of view (FF) with the canon 10 - 18 @ 10mm with EOS M with Magic Lantern Raw? With the 1736x976 16:9 mode maybe?

- it's possible to shoot 24/25fps
- 1080 mode with 1.6x Crop + speedbooster & 10-18mm @13mm will give you 15mm FF Equivalent
- I've gotten usable footage with noise reduction @800 iso, but honestly with the M, it's no A7S, I'd just keep it at 100 ISO and let it do it's thing.
- Using the higher crop modes will perform worse in lowlight. Using a fast lens and speedbooster will help, as well as NR Software.

[IDA_ML]

Sorry if I still don't get it -

You say "1920x1080 1x1 RAW" and "The only downside is the crop factor" - does this mean that the 1920x1080 RAW is still recorded with the Canon FW 3x feature already in the earleir ML vesrions, and then upscaled from 1728x1152 ?

I don't get what you don't get.  A "1920x1080 1x1 RAW" is a simple rectangular crop of the center part of the image sensor that has the size of 1920x1080 pixels, meaning that all 2073600 pixels in that area are sampled 1 by 1, as they are - no binning, no line skipping and no upscaling.  And this is the cropped image that you get, just in the same way as you would make in Photoshop a 1920x1080 crop of the center part of a still 18 Mp RAW image that you shot with your camera.  That's all.  In that way you preserve the RAW quality of your cropped image.   Cropping means that you do not use the entire sensor area but just a cropped part of it, meaning that you end up with a crop factor.  In this particular case, the crop factor is 5208 (the full sensor width of your 18 Mp camera), divided by 1920 (the width of your crop), multiplied by 1,61 (the crop factor of your camera vs. 35 mm full frame camera) which is 4,37.  This means that if you use a 10 mm lens with your camera, your field of view will be exactly the same as what you see in the view finder/screen of a full-frame camera with a 43,7 mm lens on it.  And that's a downside because you use just a fraction of the sensor area and cannot film wider than that unless you use a fish eye lens.

If you still don't get it, I don't know how to make it clear to you.  I am giving up, sorry.

[loknar]

i am aware that this might be stupid question, but...how do you guys focus in 5K anamorphic?
In 2.5K I can switch between framing and 5x zoom through Info button, but I wasn't able to replicate it in 5K. Is it even possible?

[Danne]

Lately theBilalFakhouri accomplished just that. Real time preview plus zoom in preview while recording. I have the code so at some point I put it in.

[loknar]

Thank you for the clarification.

[Mythic Cinema]

Stupid question but how do I update Magic Lantern, do I just copy over the new files to the SD Card and overwrite? Or do I have to do more than that? I'd rather not uninstall and reinstall if unnecessary. Thanks.

[IDA_ML]

Stupid question but how do I update Magic Lantern, do I just copy over the new files to the SD Card and overwrite? Or do I have to do more than that? I'd rather not uninstall and reinstall if unnecessary. Thanks.

I simply delete the old files and copy the new ones directly from the ZIP archive into the root directory of the card.  Then I just activate the modules and adjust the settings that I need and that's it.  Never had a problem with this type of update.

[Walter Schulz]

Just overwriting files may cause unwanted side effects if there are incompatible settings or outdated modules. Better (as IDA_ML wrote) just rename/delete autoexec.bin and ML directory and copy extracted build contents to card. Overwriting ML-SETUP.FIR is optional, code hasn't changed for quite some time.

[Danne]

New test build:
https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magic-lantern_jip_hop_git/downloads/crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only_2020Oct05.EOSM202_frtp.zip

Adresses 5K anamorphic frtp preset:

- Zooming with halfshutter while recording possible. While recording simply hald halfshutter for a zoom helping to nail focus easier while recording. Release button to get back to real time preview.

- This preset will work with HDMI out with correct real time preview. Didn´t test for corruption but seems stable on 700D. Zoom help disabled when in HDMI out.

- Fix for halfshutter causing cropmarks to disable and not come back. Should work now.

Bleeding edge tet build. Please report what works and if having issues. I look into it when I can.

[Mythic Cinema]

Just overwriting files may cause unwanted side effects if there are incompatible settings or outdated modules. Better (as IDA_ML wrote) just rename/delete autoexec.bin and ML directory and copy extracted build contents to card. Overwriting ML-SETUP.FIR is optional, code hasn't changed for quite some time.

Alright, thank you.

I simply delete the old files and copy the new ones directly from the ZIP archive into the root directory of the card.  Then I just activate the modules and adjust the settings that I need and that's it.  Never had a problem with this type of update.

Thank you also.

New test build:
https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magic-lantern_jip_hop_git/downloads/crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only_2020Oct04.EOSM202_frtp.zip

Adresses 5K anamorphic frtp preset:

- Zooming with halfshutter while recording possible. While recording simply hald halfshutter for a zoom helping to nail focus easier while recording. Release button to get back to real time preview.

- This preset will work with HDMI out with correct real time preview. Didn´t test for corruption but seems stable on 700D. Zoom help disabled when in HDMI out.

- Fix for halfshutter causing cropmarks to disable and not come back. Should work now.

Bleeding edge tet build. Please report what works and if having issues. I look into it when I can.

Thanks for the update, Danne!

[Mythic Cinema]

Since I often shoot 2-hour jazz concerts (usually with three EOS-M cameras, one of them with a C-mount zoom), there would be massive raw files to convert before editing, so I was hoping for something more direct...

You are only shooting 2 hours with 3 EOS M cameras. I would be using raw your case, where as I shoot with 4 cameras for 8 to 10 hours and that is when raw is too much data. In your case all you need is three 256gb SanDisk Extreme Pro cards, which will fill about 204GB on each card give or take, for 1080p Raw at 2 hours. Not bad at all. You are lucky. I wish I could use raw in my case. Run a test in raw and see how long you get until your card runs out, then do the calculations. It should be under 256gb for 2 hours @ 1080p.

[ricardopt]

I don't get what you don't get.  A "1920x1080 1x1 RAW"...(explanation) If you still don't get it, I don't know how to make it clear to you.  I am giving up, sorry.

Hi IDA_ML, its not just him, there's more people confused with the terminology used here, this is a canon eos-m thread and people keep using terms like "crop factor" for comparing with full frame sensor and then crop factor for recording video modes where only a croped area is used and people tend to get confused about what is what, i know this is for advanced users but people have to start somewhere.

I think everyone apreciates all the help/dedication/time that developers put on ML and still answer questions here...its priceless all the help given here but i think its normal for people to get confused with terms being used to describe 2 different things.

I know its a thread for advanced usage...just my 2 cents.

[loknar]

New test build:
https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magic-lantern_jip_hop_git/downloads/crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only_2020Oct04.EOSM202_frtp.zip

Adresses 5K anamorphic frtp preset:

- Zooming with halfshutter while recording possible. While recording simply hald halfshutter for a zoom helping to nail focus easier while recording. Release button to get back to real time preview.

Bleeding edge tet build. Please report what works and if having issues. I look into it when I can.

Holy smoke that was quick 
Downloading...

[loknar]

New test build:
https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magic-lantern_jip_hop_git/downloads/crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only_2020Oct04.EOSM202_frtp.zip

Adresses 5K anamorphic frtp preset:

- Zooming with halfshutter while recording possible. While recording simply hald halfshutter for a zoom helping to nail focus easier while recording. Release button to get back to real time preview.
Bleeding edge tet build. Please report what works and if having issues. I look into it when I can.

OK, so zoom does work nicely, recording works in both full frame/zoom and alternating between the two. Unfortunately, when i try to replay record i get only blank screen and orange led blinking, after long wait metadata header (name+resolution+frame rate...) show up with frame counter increasing, but no video (only static image of other video on the card) i could go back to recording and when i try to replay for the second time, camera freezes completely (so, battery out). Every setting in default, only 5K anamorphic frtp chosen.

[Danne]

Uploaded a new build again.
THere will probably be some strangeness happening. Much stuff is new. I can play my files over here but I deleted any still images and started with a clean card som maybe that was what was needed. Do try the latest again.

https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magic-lantern_jip_hop_git/downloads/crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only_2020Oct05.EOSM202_frtp.zip