Author Topic: Powergrade for Resolve  (Read 1565 times)

togg

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Powergrade for Resolve
« on: January 09, 2020, 10:53:34 AM »
Sooo!

You export the dngs from MLV APP. Then what?

By following a couple of juan melara tutorial on youtubes and using is film lut I changed my post production process again!

No more 3d export lut in the preferences. I've moved into the color transform nodes.

I made 3 powergrades at the moment, the general idea is to put your wb in the raw panel, bmd film, +2 exposure (not needed if you expose correctly MAYBE) then first node a color transform to bmd to alexa log c just because it's more cool, then your corrections node, then another color transform where you bring it into rec709, apply the tonemapping options there, and then if you want add SOME of the nodes (not the contrast curve one) of the kodak poower grade that melare recreated.

One of the 3 is only the color transform and some clean contrast, another the color transform and some lifted contrast, a third the color transform and the extra kodak nodes that make film saturation and stuff.

Try them out!

https://www.mediafire.com/file/ojcqpc76pax6brz/MLV_dngs_color_transform_power_grades_for_davinci_resolve.zip/file

Dmytro_ua

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2020, 01:50:36 PM »
Could you share a preview image of the RAW file and your edit result?
5d3 1.1.3 exp | Canon 16-35 4.0L | Canon 50 1.4 | Canon 100mm 2.8 macro
Ronin-S

togg

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2020, 03:52:21 PM »
Could you share a preview image of the RAW file and your edit result?

yes of course! What's your usual workflow with raw images? It would make a better comparison.

A basic Rec709 from the raw panel.




The 3 powergrades I did.






cmh

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2020, 09:05:58 PM »
The grade 1.50.1 (third still I presume) is pretty simple but it has really great skin tones on an EOS M (the reds are leaning towards the orange tho).

My previous workflow for a quick first pass grade:
I used to enable Pre Tone Curve in the raw project settings, leave the color space to rec.709/sRGB and up the gain to +20 in the raw tab with few other settings: Saturation -5, Color boost +10 to temper the red channel a bit, Highlight -30, Shadows +10. Finally a gamut mapping node: Gamma sRGB, Tone Mapping Luminance, Max Input 1000.
It doesn't look bad but the problem is that if I do a daylight white balance of a mixed lights environnement, skin tones might have to be fixed separately.

Your grade is pretty spot on right off the bat. Thanks for sharing. It's a nice improvement compared to what I used to do, I'll try to fiddle a bit with it.

cmh

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2020, 09:32:04 AM »
Testing this powergrade real quick in a mixed light scene (It's an EOS M, 1488x1866 squeezed, 12 bit).
I denoised, changed the white balance, upped the gamma a notch and that's it:
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IDODpqf9bM

togg

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2020, 12:27:25 AM »
The grade 1.50.1 (third still I presume) is pretty simple but it has really great skin tones on an EOS M (the reds are leaning towards the orange tho).

My previous workflow for a quick first pass grade:
I used to enable Pre Tone Curve in the raw project settings, leave the color space to rec.709/sRGB and up the gain to +20 in the raw tab with few other settings: Saturation -5, Color boost +10 to temper the red channel a bit, Highlight -30, Shadows +10. Finally a gamut mapping node: Gamma sRGB, Tone Mapping Luminance, Max Input 1000.
It doesn't look bad but the problem is that if I do a daylight white balance of a mixed lights environnement, skin tones might have to be fixed separately.

Your grade is pretty spot on right off the bat. Thanks for sharing. It's a nice improvement compared to what I used to do, I'll try to fiddle a bit with it.


That is so nice to hear! :) The video looks great! I'm happy to have contributed some to the color science of ML raw :P Even if only by putting together stuff from other sources.

To recap what this powergrades basically do : 

- Use the transform LUT available into Resolve to map luminance and saturation in a more filmic way.

- Brings exposure up by 2 stops in the raw panel to basically increase the dinamic range and match what you see inside MLV App.

- Adds some contrast on a middle node (plus a color shift).


All of this can be vastly improved imho. There're tons of ways the tone mapping could be better probably but that's serious stuff. The 2 stops hack bring out some excessive noise, but how to do it differently ?

It would be nice to have a thread with better organized collection of power grades for Resolve. On the end that's what defines the image and it can be pretty discomforting for a new user to have to do this from scratch.

cmh

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2020, 05:03:46 AM »
Quote
That is so nice to hear! :) The video looks great! I'm happy to have contributed some to the color science of ML raw :P Even if only by putting together stuff from other sources.
Yeah I'm in no way a colorist but I just wanted to say that despit not beeing "neutral" your powergrades are pretty natural and photographic, there's usually not much feedbacks on the ML forum and I wanted to show my appreciation.

Quote
All of this can be vastly improved imho. There're tons of ways the tone mapping could be better probably but that's serious stuff. The 2 stops hack bring out some excessive noise, but how to do it differently ?
I don't think that restoring the two stops in the raw tab increases noise as it just compensate for the bmd gamma which brings everything all the way to the left.
As far as I don' try to recover information like upping the shadows, it's ok (but then I'm using an EOS M that is known to have to pretty bad dynamic range so maybe I'm wrong).

I previously tried multiple tonemapping workflows, a decent way was to linearize everything and use Corona highlight compression with Tonemapping Tools in Fusion (filmic and Reinhardt are also available) but that was pretty slow and required me to up the gain instead of ISO otherwise I ended up with muted colors.
Using a colorspace transform node to go from bmd to rec.709 is way cleaner anyway and the gamma mapping is customizable enough for me.

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It would be nice to have a thread with better organized collection of power grades for Resolve.
I'd love to see such thread, I would participate.

Quote
On the end that's what defines the image and it can be pretty discomforting for a new user to have to do this from scratch.
As for empowering newcomers on this topic, as cynical as it sounds, the large majority wants the youtube "cinematic" aka slap a LUT like an instagram filter. There's a steep learning curve, it would have to be prefaced by how to read the scopes instead of eyeballing it on uncalibrated monitors, yadi yada.

cmh

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2020, 12:57:08 AM »
Just a basic color correction on random scenes using the power grade you shared to see how it holds up with skin tones in different conditions (an olive complexion shot at 5000K at multiple times of the day).
I'm using the 1.50 dpx and the Rec709 Fujifilm 3513DI D65 lut at 30% as a last node instead of Juan Melara's lut.
Fujifilm 3513DI is way too green in the shadows. I'll stick to Kodak 2383 next time and correct the red cast I get from it.
I tried to get rid of the Alexa CST multiple times but I've always ended up correcting highlights here and there using curves and tone mapping so I'll just keep it as it is.


togg

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2020, 03:23:45 AM »
Just a basic color correction on random scenes using the power grade you shared to see how it holds up with skin tones in different conditions (an olive complexion shot at 5000K at multiple times of the day).
I'm using the 1.50 dpx and the Rec709 Fujifilm 3513DI D65 lut at 30% as a last node instead of Juan Melara's lut.
Fujifilm 3513DI is way too green in the shadows. I'll stick to Kodak 2383 next time and correct the red cast I get from it.
I tried to get rid of the Alexa CST multiple times but I've always ended up correcting highlights here and there using curves and tone mapping so I'll just keep it as it is.



Nice! Again, it looks very good.
Also remember my middle node is pushing green up a little bit. I merged two contradictory saturation modifications together and added your final lut suggestion at 20%: https://www.mediafire.com/view/5n19fdwqzz12bhm/Powergrade_Resolve_1.7.1.dpx/file

It looks good on my end as well! But I should do more test. Also it appear clear that you can have the same looking image with the same powergrafe but with less noise by exposing it +2 stops in camera, and remove the raw panel +2. You'll just loose the highlights... Our choice.

cmh

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2020, 05:59:00 PM »
I stumbled on some info on cdng and bmdfilm: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87576

CaptainHook at Blackmagic Design
"Blackmagic Film" for Gen 1 is actually not a transform but passes out sensor space, or sensor RGB. You can basically think of it as "no colour science applied". So you would need a transform from that particular sensors response to the gamut of your choice which you'd need to get from that manufacturer. I believe Digital Bolex for example offered LUTs to transform from their sensor RGB to common gamuts like 709 via a LUT to be used in this workflow with DNGs in Resolve."
"Yes, DNGs in the metadata provide the matrices and AsShotNeutral tags needed to convert from XYZ to SensorRGB (and back) as supplied by the camera manufacturer so Resolve will be converting from SensorRGB -> XYZ -> Rec709. As for getting an XYZ output option I'm not part of the Resolve team so you would have better luck requesting that direct to them, but you could use CST to go from Rec709 primaries to any other gamut as the output from the RAW decode should not be clipped."

Jacob Fenn
"My issue ended up most likely being that the DNG's weren't relaying the ISO data needed for Resolve to properly debayer to Blackmagic's log curve. Therefore, when I'd apply what I thought was a normalizing transform via a CST node, the result was off because that CST node expects ISO 800. Thanks CaptainHook for help figuring that out."

To my understanding:
  • There is no information clipped if we use rec709 (or linear whatever) in the raw tab and it's totally okay to, before any grade, use the first node as a color space tranform to log (like rec709 to alexa or cineon).
  • Using bmdfilm in the raw tab is a no-no and needs further color processing (a lut to match this particular canon camera for exemple like Digital Bolex do) but to verify my statement we should both shoot a color chart (which I don't have) in the same lighting conditions and compare the results of our cameras with your 1.50 dpx for exemple.
  • There's probably missing metadata in our dng compared to blackmagic cameras cdng, like ISO apparently that would explain the fact that we have to change exposure (as we said before the whole histogram is on the left which is not what a blackmagic camera would get).

edit: It might be the value named BaselineExposure. Compared with exiftool it is set to 3.09 on an ursa mini, 0.76 on a Digital Bolex D16 and 0 on an eos m cdng from MLVApp.
Tf you want to overwrite the original files with a value of 1.25 so you don't have to correct for exposure:
exiftool -BaselineExposure=1.25 -overwrite_original *.dng
It is a quick operation.

togg

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2020, 03:26:43 AM »
To my understanding:
  • There is no information clipped if we use rec709 (or linear whatever) in the raw tab and it's totally okay to, before any grade, use the first node as a color space tranform to log (like rec709 to alexa or cineon).
  • Using bmdfilm in the raw tab is a no-no and needs further color processing (a lut to match this particular canon camera for exemple like Digital Bolex do) but to verify my statement we should both shoot a color chart (which I don't have) in the same lighting conditions and compare the results of our cameras with your 1.50 dpx for exemple.
  • There's probably missing metadata in our dng compared to blackmagic cameras cdng, like ISO apparently that would explain the fact that we have to change exposure (as we said before the whole histogram is on the left which is not what a blackmagic camera would get).

edit: It might be the value named BaselineExposure. Compared with exiftool it is set to 3.09 on an ursa mini, 0.76 on a Digital Bolex D16 and 0 on an eos m cdng from MLVApp.
Tf you want to overwrite the original files with a value of 1.25 so you don't have to correct for exposure:
exiftool -BaselineExposure=1.25 -overwrite_original *.dng
It is a quick operation.



Daamn! Now I have to try all of this... :P You are really getting to the bottom of this exposure thing.

In the meantime I was helped to replicate some powergrade to replicate halation, if someone is interested it's here (setted for bmd film): https://www.mediafire.com/file/t5sa0m4weqoxgf7/halation_powergrade_resolve.zip/file

cmh

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2020, 09:50:33 AM »
Thanks I'll check that later in the day.

cmh

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Re: Powergrade for Resolve
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2020, 02:21:43 PM »
Sorry, I've been busy, I love the effect, really reminiscent of film. I find your powergrade less in your face than many or the tutorial available on the internet. Really cool.