Author Topic: My ETTR mess and questions  (Read 5558 times)

Casi

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My ETTR mess and questions
« on: January 19, 2015, 06:14:51 PM »
Hello,
today I tried to test the ETTR feature (for the first time) for a time lapse scene just to get warm with the subject matter. I couldn't find an ETTR how to guide or anything.

So far, I'm familiar with the Intervalometer feature of ML so no issues there.

However, as soon as I try to shooting a time lapse my 5D Mark III starts going haywire during the time lapse. The exposures are getting darker and at some point it appears that the camera stalls (no more shots are taken while the LED keeps blinking every second). After turning the camera off the LED stays red until I remove the battery.

Here are my settings for what it's worth. Maybe someone can point me into the right direction. I tried to find ETTR related threads but I couldn't find a solution for my problem.

As mentioned I'm using a
- 5D III
- Firmware 1.2.3-ml-nightly from August 7, 2014
- Sandisk Extreme Pro 32GB CF card

Canon settings:
- Mode M
- Image review 2 sec
- Noise red. OFF
- High ISO noise red. Standard

ML settings:

EXPO
- WB Cloudy
- ISO 1600 (ML kept changing this value)
- Shutter 1/10
- Apert. f2.8
- Picture Style AUTO
- Auto ETTR: Always ON
- everything else off
- except Auto exposure ON

Auto ETTR settings:
- Always on
- Slowest shutter 6 sec.
- Highlight ignore 0.1%
- SNR limits default to 6EV/2EV
- Link to Dual ISO OFF

OVERLAY settings:
- Global Draw ON, all modes
- everything else OFF
- except Spotmeter Percent, AFbox
- except Histogram RAW RGB, Log dots

SHOOT settings:
- Intervalometer 20 sec. (Start trigger take apic/ Stop afer DISABLED)
- Post Deflicker XMP (-4EV/50%)

So here are the things that I thought are off:

1. I didn't shoot in Live View so I'm not 100% if ETTR is doing its job in the first place. I once tried Auto ETTR "Press SET" and when I did press SET, ETTR seemed to kick in and adjust the exposure correctly for the beginning.

2. Then after that, the images got darker and it appears that ETTR was not working anymore.

3. Is it normal that the camera makes a double beep after each exposure?

4. Sometimes my 5DIII took 2 to 4 shots right after each other as if I was using exposure bracketing, which I didn't set up.

5. The camera stalled after about 16 exposures (tried it in both Live View and without LV). I couldn't :-\ access the ML menu at all anymore and the camera was unresponsive.

6. Even if I set the camera to a fixed ISO (200) before the time lapse - both in the Canon menu as well as in the ML EXPO tab - that value kept changing. My idea was that ISO and aperture is fixed but ETTR adjusts exposure time to correct brightness.

7. Same thing happened to the exposure values. If I set the starting exposure time to 1/30 in the ML menu the camera started the time lapse with 1/3200 but I never selected that. Some times, I got the feeling that ETTR worked and the exposures looked very good but it all changed over time (we're talking about a matter of 5 minutes real time - so it wasn't getting dark yet).

I had an overcast, gloomy day and at ISO 100/200 at f2.8 with 1/3200 the photos were just too dark.

I'm probably making a total fool of myself here with these questions but I still hope that someone might have an idea or two what is happening here.

Anyway thanks for reading if you made it this far.

Walter Schulz

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Re: My ETTR mess and questions
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 06:19:05 PM »
I couldn't find an ETTR how to guide or anything.

Second hit searching for
ETTR timelapse
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5705.0

This one showed up in nightly download page -> Features -> Modules -> ETTR -> [Readme]
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5693.0

Casi

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Re: My ETTR mess and questions
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 06:34:11 PM »
Second hit (your post listed first) searching for
ETTR timelapse
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5705.0

This one showed up in nightly download page -> Features -> Modules -> ETTR -> [Readme]
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5693.0
Thanks Walter,
I did see these threads before but I either didn't find my exact issue or was afraid I would be slightly off topic, therefore I started this thread.

I still have a lot to learn about the core benefit of ETTR as I read a lot about high ISO noise reduction with the help of ETTR.

My time lapses are supposed to be shot at very low ISO settings so noise is not really an issue for me here.

I just thought ETTR would help me to "just" adjust exposure times (ramping as much as I understand) while keeping ISO at a fixed value.

Flicker problems that will come down the road are a secondary problem that I've dealt with in the past already.

I'm just trying to maintain a steady exposure without my camera stalling or the exposures getting darker  :o

garry23

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Re: My ETTR mess and questions
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 10:31:50 PM »
@Casi

a-ETTR will allow you to do an in-camera Holy Grail capture, however, you will need to post process to handle the exposure 'jumps', ie this is not deflickering.

I personally use LRTimelapse, but there are other ways. I like LRT's integration with Lightroom.

I also use qDslrDashboard as a Holy Grail controller, having first carried out an ETTR with ML.

Bottom line: experiment and have fun :-)

Casi

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Re: My ETTR mess and questions
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2015, 03:52:56 PM »
@Casi

a-ETTR will allow you to do an in-camera Holy Grail capture, however, you will need to post process to handle the exposure 'jumps', ie this is not deflickering.

I personally use LRTimelapse, but there are other ways. I like LRT's integration with Lightroom.

I also use qDslrDashboard as a Holy Grail controller, having first carried out an ETTR with ML.

Bottom line: experiment and have fun :-)
Garry,
I got everything to work now.

With the XMP sidecars I got an almost perfect flicker-free time lapse.

Once I get something worth showing, I'll post it here.

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: My ETTR mess and questions
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2015, 07:02:30 PM »
Nice thread @Casi -- will definitely be following this!
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

SoulOfWit

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Re: My ETTR mess and questions
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2015, 12:52:00 AM »
@Casi

There's a billion reasons to use Magic Lantern.  I've spent a month on the forums, browsing, digging, and exploring as many angles of its integration with the 5diii BEFORE installing it on my camera, and I have to say, it's supremely powerful and is giving me hassle-free footage that verges on comparable to footage captured in my last project with the Alexa.  Without a single issue (please o please continue this way, camera gods....)

However in my opinion, HG time-lapse is not one of the reasons to use ML.  If you're doing holy-grail/astro, you're running a long sequence (6-8+hrs), and the longer you run it, the more chance you have of introducing incident.  HG Time-lapse does NOT like incident.  In fact, delicate attention to exposure in the highlights is absolutely paramount, or it's ruined.  Now, I will say again that ML is bonkers powerful if you know what you're doing, and it does seem like what you've got going on can be easily remedied with the correct ML approach (I'll leave that to the forum vets). 

My thing is, I'm willing to use ML take the calculated risk for 2-5 min long takes day after day, but not for an 8hr take.  That's just me, and again, I'm SURE it's possible with ML. 

But there's a device out there that has truly changed the ball-game when it comes to HG Timelapse.  And that's the RamperPro by Andre Crone at Elysia Visuals.  I've tried all the others (except ML!):  Qdslr Dashboard, CamRanger, Little Bramper, Timelapse+, and let me tell ya:  RamperPro is the Bee's Knees.  It's a Fully Automatic ISO and Shutter Ramping device that will use a combo of manual and bulb exposures to ramp 22 stops if you want to. It then writes XMP data to match the exposure jumps without the need for LRTimelapse.  But guess what, it's full integratable with LRTimelapse, which I love and use for every sequence.  But you can skip it if you want, and do your grading in AE or another program of your choosing. Your sequences will be flicker free, but just to ensure it, carefull to not clip a single highlight pixel, add in the "lens twist" method for Aperture Blade variation mitigation, and do some DeFlickering in AE. And even more impressively, it's fully integratable with Dragon Frame, Emotimo TB3, Dynamic Perception Stages, and pretty much any other 3axis motion control device.   If you are serious about HG TL, you just check it out. http://www.elysiavisuals.com/content/elysiavisuals-ramper-pro-3d-ramper-usb-timelapse-controller. It's pricey, but the Euro is crap right now, so now's the time.  Here's a vid I did for a client and it has a few HG shots peppered throughout (mostly in the middle) that I shot with the RamperPro. https://vimeo.com/120848607

Anyway, blah-dee-blah, rahpateetah, what I mean is, if I were you, I'd go a different route for HG TL, but for everything else, I'd go to ML every day of the week.

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: My ETTR mess and questions
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2015, 07:28:27 PM »
Great read and excellent work @SoulOfWit!

I've been studying/reseasrching HG TL's as of lately (for work purposes and they can lend me their Syrp kit) and you've pointed out few critical keys regarding post workflow.

So I thank you for that & I also reside in L.A. as well.

If you ever need a 2nd hand when it comes to shooting RAW/MLV/Dual-ISO/HDR's around town even if it's for frolic!

Hit me up...

/S
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109