Author Topic: Before I give up on ML raw video ...  (Read 1065 times)

zen_nudist

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Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« on: January 03, 2019, 10:42:35 PM »
I have a final question before I give up on Magic Lantern and move on with my life. I want to make simple videos for YouTube—nothing special.

But despite trying so many different settings both in the camera, in my workflow and in exporting, I still am left with “poor quality” video playback at 480p and 720p on YouTube. I know YouTube isn’t a site known for great compression algorithms, but when I view other videos also shot in 14 bit raw via Magic Lantern on 5D Mark III, they blow mine away, even at those low resolutions.

Could someone please take a look at this example video I just created. Just a simple thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6PEMzOEIuA

Here's a comparison video done by someone else 5 years ago on a Mark II. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6PEMzOEIuA

The difference is pronounced. I’m wondering if anyone might have any last thoughts on what I could be doing wrong.

Specs are below
Camera: 5D Mark III
Magic Lantern nightly build February 2018
1920x1080p
Recording 23.976fps clips and 29.97 clips modified down to 23.976fps
Using RAWMagic to create DNG sequences
Edit DNGs in ACR via Bridge
Pull DNGs and their metadata into After Effects and export ProRes 422HQ clips via Media Encoder
Assemble the ProRes clips in Premiere Pro
Export a 23.976fps .mp4 via h.264, encoded via Variable Bit Raw 2 pass / 15 bit target / 30 bit max

My suspicion for my latest test video (linked above) was that I had too much camera shake, but I’m not sure that can explain the severe pixelation going on, especially during stable shots.

My Magic Lantern experiment has been such a time-consuming let down that I’m about to move on to a different camera system and get on with my life (I’ve been tinkering with this for nearly two years). I appreciate any help. Thank you.

Walter Schulz

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Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2019, 10:46:11 PM »
RAWmagic is banned here. Including any discussions.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13335.0

Replace with a tool not banned (should not be that hard to find) if you want our opinions.
And without access to footage (= not mangled by Youtube or other hosters) there will be no analysis worth reading.
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

zen_nudist

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Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2019, 11:41:34 PM »
1) I read the entire post and did not see a list of banned applications. Is MLVFS ok?

2) What do you mean "without access to footage?" I provided a link to the video on YouTube. How the footage appears on YouTube is the entire point of my post. The footage plays back fine on my hard drive, of course.

Walter Schulz

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Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2019, 11:46:57 PM »
There is no use in discussing where the problem is if we do not have access to the *unaltered* file. That's the file you downloaded to Youtube and not the mess converted/compressed/mangled by Youtube. If you insist not giving access to the *unaltered* file: Fine, it's your problem.

You may want to give MLV App 1.4 a chance. Upload to Youtube again, link Youtube result and give access to MLV App output. Short cut (=small file to download) showing the problem will do.
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

eNnvi

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Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2019, 12:03:34 AM »
You should first take a look at google's support page where it describes the optimal rendering parameters before uploading.

Then you also have to check legal values for luma and saturation.

Ilia3101

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Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2019, 12:14:21 AM »
You may want to give MLV App 1.4 a chance.

Oh yeah, if you are using RAWmagic, MLV App can be used for DNG export too.
5D2

g3gg0

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Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 12:50:38 AM »
I have a final question before I give up on Magic Lantern

[...]

My Magic Lantern experiment has been such a time-consuming let down that I’m about to move on to a different camera system and get on with my life (I’ve been tinkering with this for nearly two years). I appreciate any help. Thank you.

[...]

The footage plays back fine on my hard drive, of course.

maybe i missed the point.
what exactly makes you believe that it has the faintest thing to do with magic lantern, MLV or the DNG format?
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Teamsleepkid

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Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 05:40:37 AM »
it looks totally fine...other than your color correcting.. :P are you trying to get views? cause you only got 4...
EOS M

IDA_ML

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Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 10:21:19 AM »
Zen_nudist,

I don't see anything wrong with your video except that some of the scenes are totally overprocessed.  This is probably the reason for the pixelization that you observe.  If you use quality lenses, carefully stabilize your camera, focus precisely and expose to the right without blowing up the highlights, your video quality will be stunning!  As far as postprocessing is concerned, try either MLVApp or MLVFS in combination with DaVinci Resolve Lite - everything free of charge.  This will give you the simplest, easiest and fastest workflow - much better, easier and faster compared to the one that you are using.  And if you do not overprocess your footage, its quality will be nothing else but breath taking.

As far as your threats to move to another camera system are concerned, just go ahead and do it!  Sell your 5D3 and buy a Sony for example.  After you struggle with its sterile digital "plastic fantastic" footage for a while, you will learn how to value ML RAW video with its filmic look and will finally understand what you have lost by giving up on it.

jpegmasterjesse

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Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2019, 02:36:26 AM »
While we're making some helpful critiques, I'd like to offer my own. In the video, the difference between your landscape and more artsy transition versus people mugging for the camera makes the final product kinda confused. Vacation style video of people tends to drain the artistry out of it for everyone except the subjects themselves, maybe.

Everybody is frustrated with youtube compression, unfortunately I don't think there's a good way around it. But yeah, I don't see how starting with uncompressed raw footage would in any way hinder your final project.

If you're sick of your 5D3 I'll gladly take it :0

Oh, and your "comparison" link is the same as the first one - curious to see which video you were looking at for comparison.

ItsMeLenny

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Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2019, 03:23:28 AM »
I think everybody has misunderstood what you're saying.

For one, you didn't link a comparison video, the two videos you linked are the same.

And the problem isn't youtubes compression, it's your export compression and/or your compression from raw to whatever you are converting to.

togg

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Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2019, 11:24:26 PM »
I have a final question before I give up on Magic Lantern and move on with my life. I want to make simple videos for YouTube—nothing special.

But despite trying so many different settings both in the camera, in my workflow and in exporting, I still am left with “poor quality” video playback at 480p and 720p on YouTube. I know YouTube isn’t a site known for great compression algorithms, but when I view other videos also shot in 14 bit raw via Magic Lantern on 5D Mark III, they blow mine away, even at those low resolutions.

Could someone please take a look at this example video I just created. Just a simple thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6PEMzOEIuA

Here's a comparison video done by someone else 5 years ago on a Mark II.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6PEMzOEIuA

The difference is pronounced. I’m wondering if anyone might have any last thoughts on what I could be doing wrong.

Specs are below
Camera: 5D Mark III
Magic Lantern nightly build February 2018
1920x1080p
Recording 23.976fps clips and 29.97 clips modified down to 23.976fps
Using RAWMagic to create DNG sequences
Edit DNGs in ACR via Bridge
Pull DNGs and their metadata into After Effects and export ProRes 422HQ clips via Media Encoder
Assemble the ProRes clips in Premiere Pro
Export a 23.976fps .mp4 via h.264, encoded via Variable Bit Raw 2 pass / 15 bit target / 30 bit max

My suspicion for my latest test video (linked above) was that I had too much camera shake, but I’m not sure that can explain the severe pixelation going on, especially during stable shots.

My Magic Lantern experiment has been such a time-consuming let down that I’m about to move on to a different camera system and get on with my life (I’ve been tinkering with this for nearly two years). I appreciate any help. Thank you.


I can't open your video but I'll gladly recap the things to do to get more quality video online. In order of importance:

1) Use a proper workflow for color grading, yours is so weird I can't even judge it. The right way to do it is bring the dngs into Davinci Resolve (free), set the raw panel with BMD gamma, then use the Black Magic Cinema Camera to rec709v2 LUT as a last node or as an output 3D LUT. Grade inside this pipeline.   

2) If you can do not use youtube, compression is bad, Wistia is a good alternative. Vimeo is better than youtube but not as good as Wistia.

3) Don't upload on youtube or other a h264 version, compressing an already compressed video is always hard. If quality is important upload some kind of low bandwith prores. if you have to use h264 compress it with handbrake with SuperHQ profile.

That's it! :)