Author Topic: Canon 7D in 2018  (Read 5169 times)

BrokenSyntax

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Canon 7D in 2018
« on: October 03, 2018, 01:29:36 PM »
I've just purchased a used Canon 7D for little over £200. After seeing various recommendations only mentioning that it is one of the best ASP-C cameras with support for magic lantern.

My understanding is that this is mostly due to the CF interface, supporting up to around 80MB/s RW through a decent UDMA card. I have used a 650D with magic lantern and found that 14-bit compressed footage to be really great. But as with many potential ML users, finding a reasonable up-to-date chart of each camera's capabilities with modern builds from '17-'18 has been difficult.

To 7D users, what can I expect from my 7D in terms of magic lantern performance? I apologise for the long post, I just have a lot of questions and I'd like to update my post with your feedback to help further potential 7D users understand what to expect from a recent ML build in 2018.

  • Is the maximum live-view resolution still 1728 x 972 (at 16:9) without crop_rec? Yes
  • Is 14-bit compressed MLV supported? What about 12-bit compressed? Not right now
  • What is the maximum resolution with crop_rec?
  • Is there any way to do pixel binning instead of line skipping on the 7D?
Updated 4th October 2018.

Is the 7D regarded as the best ASP-C ML camera because of the CF interface only? Or is there something else I'm not aware of. I'll update this post with my findings too once I have the camera - I'm not afraid to break it so I'll be adventurous.

The 650D, 700D and 100D appear to be better for ML right now it seems as they can make use of compressed raw and are more stable on the latest nightly branches.

IDA_ML

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Re: Canon 7D in 2018
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2018, 04:30:06 PM »
Please read the 7D thread:

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9848.0

and you will find the answers to your questions.   Also if you want to gain an impression at the video quality achievable with the 7D at the current state of ML development for this model, please watch the video linked in post #1515 of the above thread.

As far as I know, at least two developers are working on porting crop recording  to the 7D and I really hope they will succeed.  Be patient and follow their posts on that.  I think, by purchasing the 7D, you made the right choice.  I own it and I love it.   It is a fantastic ML capable camera providing very beautiful RAW video.

BrokenSyntax

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Re: Canon 7D in 2018
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 12:36:32 AM »
I've looked at the thread in detail, and had done before. Though there's some 1500 posts there, I hoped to consolidate some of it here as I'd spent over 8 hours trying to assess the current state of ML for the 7D and still feel unable to paint a full picture now (hence my post). I love the 7D and am glad to have purchased, the fact that my 650D appears to be more useful in ML now with the compression that's available leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth - so I'm definitely keen to help progress ML on the 7D.

12georgiadis

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Re: Canon 7D in 2018
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 11:58:33 AM »
7D is the best after 5dmkIII with vaf filter. It can record 14 bit raw without aliasing and in continuous


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7DUser

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Re: Canon 7D in 2018
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2018, 09:10:44 PM »
It's the same for me. I have a 7D since 2009. And after some testing the MOV-Quality was ... meh ...
I was looking for the BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K, but thought about, hey, what are the people have done at Magic Lantern ...
I looked up some Vimeo and YouTube videos and the quality is great.

From what I saw, the configuration seems not as easy as select FPS and size and press "record". And with ML-RAW, maybe there are droped frames? Maybe there is no Audio?
And from what I saw, it was not possible, to take videos in ML-RAW longer then 15 sec. because the RAM of the 7D would be full. So after some seconds we would have to wait for writing the data onto the card, no matter, how fast the card is.

And in some videos I saw flicker and stripes in some blue colour. I guess, that came with some resolution-thingly. The problem is at 720p without MagicLantern, so is this still a thing?

Is that true? Or do we have:

- 2K+
- ML-RAW (maybe compressed, or at least 10bit or 12Bit)
- Audio? (would be needed only for synch sometimes maybe)
- Do we have to crop? The 7D has already 1.6 factor and factor that would be "hard"

So what is stand on that?

domo94

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Re: Canon 7D in 2018
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2018, 11:29:58 PM »
It's the same for me. I have a 7D since 2009. And after some testing the MOV-Quality was ... meh ...
I was looking for the BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K, but thought about, hey, what are the people have done at Magic Lantern ...
I looked up some Vimeo and YouTube videos and the quality is great.

From what I saw, the configuration seems not as easy as select FPS and size and press "record". And with ML-RAW, maybe there are droped frames? Maybe there is no Audio?
And from what I saw, it was not possible, to take videos in ML-RAW longer then 15 sec. because the RAM of the 7D would be full. So after some seconds we would have to wait for writing the data onto the card, no matter, how fast the card is.

And in some videos I saw flicker and stripes in some blue colour. I guess, that came with some resolution-thingly. The problem is at 720p without MagicLantern, so is this still a thing?

Is that true? Or do we have:

- 2K+
- ML-RAW (maybe compressed, or at least 10bit or 12Bit)
- Audio? (would be needed only for synch sometimes maybe)
- Do we have to crop? The 7D has already 1.6 factor and factor that would be "hard"

So what is stand on that?

7D user with a VAF Filter here. VAF Filter is roughly $300. I still use MOV for shoots in the instance of long takes and needing a lot of recording space (such as this past month) - with the VAF filter, the 1080p quality is great. It's not PHENOMENAL but it looks normal and you don't bat an eye at it. It's 'online' quality, really. Keep it soft in the camera with sharpness, low contrast, then bump in post and you're solid. Honestly, lurk my channel if you want to see what the capabilities of the 7D are.

You do have to put in a little more work for this camera to set it up and start shooting properly, but honestly, I consider it like film - have a discipline of taking care of your camera & footage and you'll be a great filmmaker. It's better than just shoot, point, & go. Many 'filmmakers' out here buying Sony a7s ii and making mediocre quality videos.

Get a good tripod & gear, and if you're move a lot, I suggest a sigma f/2.8 17-50mm (what I have) for image stabilization.

I shoot normally 14 bit raw at the max 1080p resolution ML offers with a 2.20:1 / 2.35:1 ratio. Resolution is 1792x782 or something like it. I use a lexar 800x 120 mb/s 128GB CF card.
The 14bit RAW is so clean & sharp, you can upscale to 1080p or further and the quality is ridiculous. I don't normally mess with 2k, 3k, 4k because I don't need to but I have achieved a 2.5k and done some tests. You just don't get enough footage to really work with it, imo, and since my settings work normally for me, I don't focus too much on it.

Slo-mo on the 7D is possible. Drop it to 720p and film again in 2.20:1/2.35:1 ratio with the desired frame rate & do the work in post. DO NOT SHOOT WITH FOCUS PIXELS. Trust me, they will burn into your image and you're not going to like it. It'll make your image look weird. -->
(watch to see example/I lost focus here a lot because low light shooting at 2.8 is hard. I think I was being very reserved on ISO. No denoising here.)

I just upgraded to 2.0.6 on the 7D and it's stable and gives me only 14bit RAW, so I don't have the option to do anything else.

The post process workflow isn't terrible, and it makes you think of your footage more & be more considerate. Helps you in the long run, you take care of your footage more.

Audio in body is great, attach a Rode mic or so. We don't crop in 14 bit raw, it's what the sensor sees & that's it. The 1.6x with 50 mm is pretty nice & you get some good distance with it.

BE AWARE - Low light is as bad as people say it is. 1250, 1600 iso is the limit I recommend, I suggest BUYING Neat Video plugin to save your footage if you really want to deliver good low light videos. That's also why I suggest the f/2.8 lens. Rokinon & Sigma have the same style, same speed, different brands. -->
(Just did this a few days ago with my new battery bank setup. Denoised every shot. Stabilized. Handheld.)

The BlackMagic Pocket 4k is GORGEOUS & I'm so happy they have Canon exchangeable battery slot because I just bought a dummy battery & am intending to use my 7D with an external battery bank & if it works well and I save up, I'll either get the Black Magic Pocket 4k or a 5d mk iii and get magic lantern on it. I'm working to do real estate videos soon, so the full frame on the 5d mk iii would be great. Also the film look ML gives - you just can't beat it!

qqqavi

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Re: Canon 7D in 2018
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2019, 10:36:04 PM »
I agree with all what domo94 said. I've been using 7d with ML for 4 years and the image is amazing, very cinematic. I have shot an entire movie with 7D. I think the main downside is the aliasing more visible in shots with fine details (especially wide-shots). The upscale to 1920x1080 works just fine, no big deal. Noise can be a serious problem on ISOs above 800 and could be very annoying on underexposed shots (not always someone can avoid underexposed situations).


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