Author Topic: Begging for assistance with what camera to get  (Read 3415 times)

lizard™

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Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« on: September 19, 2018, 05:40:39 PM »
I know this post is long, but I'd really appreciate someone helping me out a lot.

Given that I consider most ML users absolute professionals, I hope I can still get some help with my noob question.

I love photography and post-editing, but so far I've never had a DSLR, only bridge cameras and since I didn't do it professionally, for me that worked fine.

Recently I came across the ML website (not even sure how) and I LOVED that camera emulator. Played a bit around, looked more at the website, and then saw this in the feature list:
Quote
Program your own camera!
Write Lua scripts
And my nerd self was instantly in love with ML and determined to get a Canon preferably already yesterday. I used a 500D years ago, but that's all for my canon experience. (Shooting on Olympus at the moment).

I'm considering between the EOS 60D, EOS 650D and EOS 700D (and 70D (?)). If ML were out of the equasion, I'd go with the 70D, mostly because of the better image processor. However, ML plays a big role for me since without it and all it's fancy stuff that will take me weeks to get into I wouldn't get a canon in the first place. Since the 70D is a "work in progress" and haven't gotten an update since over half a year, this one's out of question for me.

So I went to check out the feature matrix but I'm heavily confused. The matrix says the 600D can work all the audio modules, whereas the user guide says the entire audio menu is missing on the 600D and newer.

I can't see a big difference ML feature wise between the 650D and 700D, so between those I'd rather go with the 700D.

So to get to the point: Which differences will I encounter using ML between those three models? Is there by now an audio menu in the 700D or not and if not is there a chance it will happen in the future? I do mostly photography only, so that shouldn't matter as much to me, but it wouldn't hurt to have for sure.

There also seem major differences between 700D.114 and 700D.115 within the feature matrix. Is this just a firmware version or do I have to be careful when buying the camera and watch out for something?

dfort

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2018, 04:44:02 AM »
Assume that the 5D3 is out of the question? It is still by far the best camera for ML and probably the only ML supported camera seriously used by absolute professionals. Most of us here are hobbyists, some more serious than others.

It looks like you're leaning towards the 700D. From your list that will give you the best ML experience but don't discount the 100D or even the EOSM. Ok, back to the 700D, the current Canon firmware is version 1.1.5. It is also my one and only firmware update port to make it into the main ML repository. Any 1.1.4 builds are most likely outdated so whatever feature matrix you're looking at isn't up to date.

...Is there by now an audio menu in the 700D or not and if not is there a chance it will happen in the future?

An audio menu comes up only when the mlv_snd module is loaded. It does have audio meters but you can't monitor audio from the camera as you're recording.

So basically, the 700D is a good choice. There has been some interesting developments on it recently. I didn't say much about the 70D because I have not had much experience with it but it is a little more of a work in progress than the other cameras, though everything here is a work in progress.
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lizard™

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2018, 04:44:30 PM »
Assume that the 5D3 is out of the question? It is still by far the best camera for ML and probably the only ML supported camera seriously used by absolute professionals. Most of us here are hobbyists, some more serious than others.
A used but in good condition 5D3 over here is slightly over three times the price of a 700D, so it's out of my price range, and really much better than what I even "need". I love photography a lot, but I don't see me ever doing it as a profession. Plus, I'd really love to have a screen that I can fold old like the 60D or 700D has.

It looks like you're leaning towards the 700D. From your list that will give you the best ML experience but don't discount the 100D or even the EOSM. Ok, back to the 700D, the current Canon firmware is version 1.1.5. It is also my one and only firmware update port to make it into the main ML repository. Any 1.1.4 builds are most likely outdated so whatever feature matrix you're looking at isn't up to date.

I've looked at the EOS M first actually, and while it doesn't look bad,  it's just *really* small and having thought "I wish I would've gotten a camera with a rotateable screen" countless of times in the past, I really want to go for one offering that this time. I shoot astro a lot, and having the camera pointing up on a tripod always needs either an external monitor, or knee pain to see the screen. Same applies to the 100D.
 
An audio menu comes up only when the mlv_snd module is loaded. It does have audio meters but you can't monitor audio from the camera as you're recording.

So basically, the 700D is a good choice. There has been some interesting developments on it recently. I didn't say much about the 70D because I have not had much experience with it but it is a little more of a work in progress than the other cameras, though everything here is a work in progress.

Really the only thing I'd love to have that the 70D has and the 700D doesn't is the extra dial on the back of the camera. I've never had one before so maybe it doesn't matter that much at all, but it just seems really convenient to me, even over a touchscreen. The shutter speed and continous shooting FPS of the 70D also make it even harder for me, but then again it's priced around $260 more here. (The 700D being around $320 with a simple kit lens here at the moment) The 60D is priced around the same as the 700D though, with very similar tech specs.


So, speaking only ML feature wise, there won't be much missing on a 700D compared to a 60D with newest firmwares?

garry23

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2018, 05:05:57 PM »

dfort

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2018, 06:07:13 PM »
True -- you can pick up an EOSM for about $150.

As far as the difference between the 60D and 700D, there might not be much difference when you look at the specs but the 700D is way ahead in ML development mostly because it has a Digic 5 processor while the 60D is a Digic 4 camera. Lossless compression, reduced bit depth, SD card speed up, crop_rec module and other new features are working on Digic 5 but not Digic 4. Though there is still development on Digic 4 cameras we also need to devote time to getting the newer Digic 6, 7, 8 (and 4+) cameras ported.
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lizard™

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2018, 06:25:18 PM »
I wouldn’t ignore the EOSM  ;)

http://photography.grayheron.net/2017/12/thank-you-sony.html

That's a great setup. I love the attached monitor one. It's crazy how such a compact camera can be this professional.
I looked further into the M series and find that the M3 would be a great camera (especially for it's popup-flash and tilt-able screen), however there doesn't seem to be any ML developement on that one.

I'd just personally prefer to have something bigger in my hands. I'm planning on getting an external flash but having one built-in is just way more convenient. And of course, the rotatable display!

As far as the difference between the 60D and 700D, there might not be much difference when you look at the specs but the 700D is way ahead in ML development mostly because it has a Digic 5 processor while the 60D is a Digic 4 camera. Lossless compression, reduced bit depth, SD card speed up, crop_rec module and other new features are working on Digic 5 but not Digic 4. Though there is still development on Digic 4 cameras we also need to devote time to getting the newer Digic 6, 7, 8 (and 4+) cameras ported.

This is what I was thinking too. I'm currently looking at a 700D with a 90-300mm lens and a battery grip for just $270. It has almost 24k shutter count, but is still in a great condition and even comes with the original box, so I'm probably going for this. What's a good recommendation for a lens in the (around) 18-55mm range? I've heard kit lenses are usually bad quality. Preferably not above $100.

andy kh

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2018, 09:02:28 PM »
if you do mainly photography, i cant say much coz i don't do photography and i have no knowledge about photography. but when it comes to videography 70D is a hero. others are all kids when it comes to auto focus, lowlights etc. i had use 550D and 650D in the past and they all are kids when u compare with 70D. 70d is a semi professional camera whereas other cameras like 650D/700D are just consumer camera.
if you can't live without ML, 70d may not be your choice. now 70D is my fav camera and i wont be upgrading until i can buy a used 5D mark 3.

dfort

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2018, 10:33:16 PM »
I've heard kit lenses are usually bad quality. Preferably not above $100.

So called "kit lenses" aren't bad quality especially for the price range you're looking at.

I should also say don't discount the 70D. Although not all of the ML features are working on it yet, most of them have to do with video.
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David_Hugh

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2018, 11:18:33 PM »
Another 70D user chiming in. I got 50fps in mv720 mode at 1824x626 working, but not a coder at all so I cant really implement this in a build - but there is progress!

I am saying this because the 70D has one feature NO OTHER CAM THAT RUNS ML HAS. Dual Pixel Auto-Focus. And despite it not being a "professional" feature, you can pull off pretty neat "Steadicam" Shots on a cheap glidecam etc. for which you would otherwise need an expensive follow focus system.

BUT. Especially for the pricerange you are looking for, the 700D is a great choice. Most amazing ML video features at the moment and its got that flippy screen you kinda need for videography ;). As dfort mentioned, 100D and EosM are perhaps the other serious contenders.

lizard™

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2018, 02:25:50 AM »
if you do mainly photography, i cant say much coz i don't do photography and i have no knowledge about photography. but when it comes to videography 70D is a hero. others are all kids when it comes to auto focus, lowlights etc. i had use 550D and 650D in the past and they all are kids when u compare with 70D. 70d is a semi professional camera whereas other cameras like 650D/700D are just consumer camera.
if you can't live without ML, 70d may not be your choice. now 70D is my fav camera and i wont be upgrading until i can buy a used 5D mark 3.

I'll do mostly photo so video doesn't concern me much, but having the ability to shoot well in low light might be good to have. What I personally really love about the 70D is the improved shutter speed and FPS. My current camera has a 1/7000 shutter speed and 7 fps in continous shooting mode (JPEG only though as my camera supports no RAW shooting :/) and while the 70D has that too but in RAW mode and with a greater buffer (only 6 on my current camera) and a slightly faster shutter, the 700D would be a "downgrade" to 5 fps at 1/4000. So that's a big point for the 70D.

So called "kit lenses" aren't bad quality especially for the price range you're looking at.

I should also say don't discount the 70D. Although not all of the ML features are working on it yet, most of them have to do with video.

Hm, I've heard from mostly the people selling them that their quality isn't great. Most canon 18-55mm lenses are around $55 here. I've heard good things about sigma, which would cost just slightly more.

Is there something like the feature matrix or anything for the 70D? Is there even any 70D developement going on at the moment, as the latest version was from feburary. The features I'm interested in mostly (not that I know all of them yet though!) are focus peaking, follow focus, FPS overwrite, the intervalometer, bulb timer, magic zoom, advanced bracket, vectorscope, spotmeter, .... Yeah, I think I could go on for a while here lol. Oh, and of course, the ability to run lua scripts. Whoever came up with and implemented that has my love.

Another 70D user chiming in. I got 50fps in mv720 mode at 1824x626 working, but not a coder at all so I cant really implement this in a build - but there is progress!

I am saying this because the 70D has one feature NO OTHER CAM THAT RUNS ML HAS. Dual Pixel Auto-Focus. And despite it not being a "professional" feature, you can pull off pretty neat "Steadicam" Shots on a cheap glidecam etc. for which you would otherwise need an expensive follow focus system.

BUT. Especially for the pricerange you are looking for, the 700D is a great choice. Most amazing ML video features at the moment and its got that flippy screen you kinda need for videography ;). As dfort mentioned, 100D and EosM are perhaps the other serious contenders.

I'll probably never use RAW video at all to be honest. I've heard a lot about the auto-focus in youtube comparison videos and it seems really stunning compared to any other camera in my price range. For the follow focus: Isn't that possible on every ML supporting camera though?

I'm really leaning towards the 70D at the moment, it's on the very edge of my budget but still within and seems like a good extra investment for what it offers. But seeing no update in ML for it since over 7 months, I'm kinda afraid there won't be any updates at all for it in the future.

dfort

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2018, 03:22:48 AM »
Is there even any 70D developement going on at the moment, as the latest version was from feburary.

Really? What about this build on the experiments downloads page?

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lizard™

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2018, 05:42:45 AM »
Really? What about this build on the experiments downloads page?



I completely missed that. So, is there any major functionality of ML missing in this build?

dfort

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2018, 07:21:07 AM »
The 70D topic is currently 129 pages (3219 replies) long and it is in active development. Without knowing what features you are interested in it is impossible to tell you if this would be the "right" camera for you. Canon makes a lot of different cameras and ML works on several models--what we have here is a paradox of choice and no matter what camera you choose, you might end up with buyer's remorse.

The best I advice I can give is buy any of these cameras, they are all good and they all run ML so you're getting a lot of extra features for free.

Quote
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it!”
                                                                                                 --Ansel Adams

Well maybe even a little less because he was referring to large format cameras.
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nikfreak

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2018, 07:37:13 AM »
major drawback for 70D are "fps override" and "dual iso" features. These don't work atm. Onthe other side it has dualpixel AF....
70D.112 & 100D.101

ArcziPL

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2018, 10:07:03 PM »
I've upgraded from 700D to 70D and would never want to go back. ML support is great, even for video recording I prefer the 70D. Best reasons: ergonomics (second wheel, AF point selection with 4-directional keypad), AF Microadjustment, Dual-Pixel AF, real-time preview with correct framing in 3x zoom RAW recording, 3rd party flash firing in Live View.
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lizard™

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2018, 12:03:09 AM »
I've upgraded from 700D to 70D and would never want to go back. ML support is great, even for video recording I prefer the 70D. Best reasons: ergonomics (second wheel, AF point selection with 4-directional keypad), AF Microadjustment, Dual-Pixel AF, real-time preview with correct framing in 3x zoom RAW recording, 3rd party flash firing in Live View.

Thank you (and everyone else) a lot for the input. I've decided to go with the 70D. Better image quality and processor and the shutter speed and continous shooting buffer were my main points and I think it's worth the extra money as I usually keep and use things like that for many years.

I'm hoping FPS overwrite is coming to the 70D though as that's a really cool feature, but as long as the intervalometer is present on the 70D it's not that neccessary to me.

Also as a side question, is there any wifi developement going on? E.g. would it be possible to take a shot and have it sent to a pre-defined server (in combination with the io_crypt module something simple as netcat or any raw tcp stream should be fine, for unencrypted images ssh/sftp would be better of course)? If there isn't something like that present at the moment, would it be possible in theory?

lizard™

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2018, 02:25:38 AM »
Well, that went quick. I got lucky and just got a 70D that's been barely used for just $400, which is $100 below the avg. for even way more used models over here.

It didn't come with a lens and coming from an SLR-Like camera with no changable lenses I know nothing about them, especially when it comes to brands, quality, motors, STM and stuff like that. I'm also wondering if there are big differences between kit lenses for older cameras like the 350D and newer ones, like the 70D for example. Those older ones are dirt cheap ($20) while having the same specs as newer ones costing around $60.

I've also heard that zoom lenses like 18-135mm are worse in quality than let's say a 18-55mm and 55-135mm lens, but I've never heard why that is so. Can someone enlighten me?

I'm thinking of getting a Canon EF-S 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 IS with an UV filter first. Both are $42 together which sounds like a very reasonable price. Would that be a good first choice? For the same price I could also get the "II" version of the same lens (without the UV filter though, but those are cheap so I'd rather get a better lens). Are there any remarkable differences between I, II and III when it comes to this lens (or any lens in general)?

The alternative I'm thinking about is investing a bit more in a Canon EF-S 18-135mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS ($150) to be more flexible on the tele end, but I'm not sure if going with the cheapest option there results in a good quality.

a1ex

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2018, 07:02:29 AM »
Recently I came across the ML website (not even sure how) and I LOVED that camera emulator.
[...]
Program your own camera!
Write Lua scripts

You've got my attention with this ;)

I'm hoping FPS overwrite is coming to the 70D though as that's a really cool feature, but as long as the intervalometer is present on the 70D it's not that neccessary to me.

Working on it, but it's going slowly, as I'm targetting all old and new models and each one has its own quirks.

Quote
Also as a side question, is there any wifi developement going on? E.g. would it be possible to take a shot and have it sent to a pre-defined server (in combination with the io_crypt module something simple as netcat or any raw tcp stream should be fine, for unencrypted images ssh/sftp would be better of course)? If there isn't something like that present at the moment, would it be possible in theory?

No wifi development from my side, as none of my cameras have this capability and I'm not a networking power user either, but Maqs documented the network interface on 6D (likely similar to 70D, 1300D and other models):
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/6D/Networking

Your request is doable, but it does require some time to sit down and experiment on a network-enabled camera.

Fun stuff, now that you've picked the 70D: dual pixel notes.

lizard™

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2018, 09:18:16 PM »
Working on it, but it's going slowly, as I'm targetting all old and new models and each one has its own quirks.

That's impressive. All of this work is. I've did some hardware hacks here and there before, but nothing close to hacking a DSLR. I'm more excited for that than for actually taking pictures with it, lol.

No wifi development from my side, as none of my cameras have this capability and I'm not a networking power user either, but Maqs documented the network interface on 6D (likely similar to 70D, 1300D and other models):
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/6D/Networking

Your request is doable, but it does require some time to sit down and experiment on a network-enabled camera.

That's one of the things I want to look into myself once I became familiar with how the basics of ML and the Canon firmware work. Maybe there's something one can work out in combination with Wi-Fi SD Cards as some of those are already running Linux and can be rooted, but working directly on the camera seems a bit more appealing to me.

Another thing I want to look into is getting this astro module to work on the 70D. I just noticed your latest comment there, once I got my camera and got familiar with everything around ML I'll be happy to help with that wherever I can!

a1ex

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2018, 11:35:08 AM »
I've got a Toshiba FlashAir (also hackable) to minimize card swapping during development, but I find it too slow and unreliable for any real use (other than maybe transferring some low-res JPEG previews to a smartphone). That may have to do with the metal enclosure and cover of the SD slot in the camera.

The built-in wifi interface is probably much faster and likely easier to program, as you no longer have to guess what picture was captured, whether it was fully saved to card or not, and so on.

ArcziPL

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2018, 09:42:38 AM »
Well, that went quick. I got lucky and just got a 70D that's been barely used for just $400, which is $100 below the avg. for even way more used models over here.
IMO a good choice and a very good deal but not because of the reasons you have mentioned.

I've decided to go with the 70D. Better image quality and processor and the shutter speed and continous shooting buffer were my main points and I think it's worth the extra money as I usually keep and use things like that for many years.
Uh, where did you get the two first arguments from? There is absolutely no significant difference in image quality between 70D and 700D. I've compared the shadow noise and ISO performance of both and couldn't tell any difference. I also don't know how a "better processor" could influence the photos. It's just pure marketing.

I'm also wondering if there are big differences between kit lenses for older cameras like the 350D and newer ones, like the 70D for example. Those older ones are dirt cheap ($20)
... because they are crap.

 
while having the same specs as newer ones costing around $60.
The only things which are the same between them are: the focal length range, aperture, mount, low weight. Old Canon kits had extremely poor optical quality, delivering max. 6 Mpx. I can fully recommend the new IS STM series. It's amazing how good quality they offer for the price. The 18-55 IS STM and 18-135 IS STM are also great for video purposes: non-audible AF, non-audible IS, the magnification does not change while focusing (no "pumping effect").

I've also heard that zoom lenses like 18-135mm are worse in quality than let's say a 18-55mm and 55-135mm lens, but I've never heard why that is so. Can someone enlighten me?
Because it's easier to design and manufacture a lens with a narrower focal length range that keeps reasonable image quality than doing the same with two times greater "zoom range".

But do not consider it as a golden rule which always apply. The new 18-135 IS STM is far superior than the old 18-55 ones. Technology matters here and it continues to be developed.

I'm thinking of getting a Canon EF-S 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 IS with an UV filter first. Both are $42 together which sounds like a very reasonable price. Would that be a good first choice? For the same price I could also get the "II" version of the same lens (without the UV filter though, but those are cheap so I'd rather get a better lens). Are there any remarkable differences between I, II and III when it comes to this lens (or any lens in general)?
Getting better body to save on lens is simply wrong. A good lens matters more than the body, as it is primarily the lens which influences the image quality.
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lizard™

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2018, 01:54:41 PM »
IMO a good choice and a very good deal but not because of the reasons you have mentioned.

Well, first off thank you very much for your input. This is my first DSLR so please bear with me. I've really looked into all the technical aspects of everything only after I made this post so as the time of writing it I didn't even know what "focal length" meant.

Uh, where did you get the two first arguments from? There is absolutely no significant difference in image quality between 70D and 700D. I've compared the shadow noise and ISO performance of both and couldn't tell any difference. I also don't know how a "better processor" could influence the photos. It's just pure marketing.

I mean, it does have a higher resolution, that can't be worse to the least. A better processor never hurts, no matter if it's in a PC or a router or a camera. Especially in combination with ML I'm sure there's several features that make this a good selling point for the 70D (e.g. io_crypt). But I've never had any of those in my own hands so I can only tell from a bunch of youtube videos and blog posts. I don't see why a faster processor wouldn't have several real-life advantages though. Didn't mean to imply that the processor influences image quality. Obviously it doesn't.

Because it's easier to design and manufacture a lens with a narrower focal length range that keeps reasonable image quality than doing the same with two times greater "zoom range".

But do not consider it as a golden rule which always apply. The new 18-135 IS STM is far superior than the old 18-55 ones. Technology matters here and it continues to be developed.

I've watched a bunch of STM vs. regular motor videos on youtube recently and I'm definitely going for STM/USM/HSM whatever it's called. The difference is crazy.

I'm going to see if I can find some good local offers for the 18-135 IS STM lens, I'm currently looking at a Sigma 18-200 F3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM, do you by any chance have any experience with that one? I've found one nearby for a great price and it seems pretty solid to me. (Which again is purely based on impressions gained from youtube reviews)

Getting better body to save on lens is simply wrong. A good lens matters more than the body, as it is primarily the lens which influences the image quality.

I know that, but this is my first DSLR body and it will be my only one for a lot of years, so I rather get one now that won't make me miss any feature (like fast continous shooting) with a super budget lens than the other way around. I'm definitely gonna invest in a better lens one day, but as stupid as it sounds I'm putting "hacking my camera" above "taking the sharpest and greatest pictures with my camera". I come from a JPEG-only 1/2.3" 16MP camera with a 24-1200mm F2.9-6.5 that has a lot of CA and noise even on the lower tele-end, but it's been more than sufficient for me. I'm not a professional photographer by any means. I've had my current camera for almost 4 years now (fixed lens) and if I wouldn't have come across magic lantern I would've continued to use it for probably at least another four years. There surely will come a day on which I'll be able to afford a really good telephoto lens or even a telescope that I can put my DSLR on, but until then I'm truly more interested in seeing how much I can hack around with ML than taking super professional business-grade photos.

ArcziPL

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2018, 08:36:31 PM »
I'm going to see if I can find some good local offers for the 18-135 IS STM lens, I'm currently looking at a Sigma 18-200 F3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM, do you by any chance have any experience with that one? I've found one nearby for a great price and it seems pretty solid to me. (Which again is purely based on impressions gained from youtube reviews)
No, I never had interest in mega-zooms. Check some reviews and make up your mind based on them. From my experience: looking for a good lens might take a while. For me it was easy to decide which body to take but I'm picky about lenses. You need to try them out, to know if you like them. And this means either borrowing or buying. What matters are parameters which you won't find in spec.

My history looked like this:

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS -> kit lens which I bought with my 450D in 2008; I've used it for a couple of years but since beginning the sharpness was disappointing

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II -> amazing sharpness and contrast compared to 18-55 IS but my 450D suffered backfocus, so I used it in manual AF mode in LV only, I liked this lens a lot for its image quality but didn't like the bokeh and miserable AF performance with my body

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.6 USM -> very good image quality, quick AF, very well brightness (aperture) for this focal length range, extremely useful lens; I loved it from the first moment and it's still one of my favorites; a must on my holidays

Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical -> the idea was to replace the kit but it was only a half-success; image quality was great, on par with 50mm f/1.8 II, nice bokeh but AF was a real disaster which got only a bit better after calibration of the lens at Tamron's service and 450D at Canon's service, AF is also terribly slow and I ended up toggling all the time between 10-22 and 28-75 as I found out the focal range between ~18 and ~30 was for me mostly in use; would be a nice lens if the AF was better but because of this reason I don't use it anymore (inaccuracy depends on the focusing distance, so even AFMA doesn't help)

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM -> extremely sharp and good quality for the price; I use it for videos due to IS, non-audible AF, non-audible IS and no "pumping effect" when changing focus (I'm just filming my daughter and document some holidays-memories, I'm not a video guy so it's my choice)

Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM -> my actual standard lens; fantanstic image quality, extremely good and precise AF, good IS, constant f/2.8 in whole focal length range! The only real disadvantages: it moves to 55mm position when carried in a hand or on a sling which is irritating... there is no lock of the zoom ring like the Tamron has. And unfortunately the IS and AF are audible so not that good for videos with build-in microphone.

Canon EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM -> I liked the idea of a pancake but actually I hardly ever use it; I pack it into my bag only when it's full of portrait lenses and I take it "just in case I need something wider" as it's very small and light; otherwise pretty nice quality but very slow and funny noisy AF; the initial idea was to use it as an only lens when having to limit the weight on a trip but in such cases I take the EOS M with 2 lenses which is just a more versatile set

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM -> I wanted to replace my f/1.8 II but don't like it at all with its horrible random AF, awful CA, blurriness up to f/2.2 (but gets super sharp afterwards), awful bokeh, fragile mechanics; it's a 1990s construction and should stay in that times... I'll get rid of it soon

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM -> fantastic image quality, I love the bokeh and colors since the first minutes; one of my favorite lenses but I use it for portraits only

Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM -> I rarely use such "long" lenses but few times I've missed one, so decided for an inexpensive but sharp one; dark and pretty slow AF but great otherwise and very lightweight, what is important for me since it's not my primary lens and the more important ones are too heavy already; great value for money

Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art -> my actually favorite lens; great, consistent, fast AF, extreme sharpness even fully opened, no CA, awesome bokeh; I love using it and seeing the results afterwards :) My best lens ever but you can feel it in your back :)

Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM -> newly purchased, probably will replace my 10-22 as it's sharper, smaller and has IS; handheld exposures up to 1s are killer!; due to IS can be used as a pretty wide lens for filming in 3x zoom mode (so no line skipping and aliasing on 70D); but I'm not sure yet it will really replace 10-22 as I have to start using it first to tell

Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art -> this I'll buy next for the next holidays in Lappland, hoping for better night photos of polar lights than last times
70D.112 | M50.102 | M.202

lizard™

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2018, 01:19:48 AM »
No, I never had interest in mega-zooms. Check some reviews and make up your mind based on them. From my experience: looking for a good lens might take a while. For me it was easy to decide which body to take but I'm picky about lenses. You need to try them out, to know if you like them. And this means either borrowing or buying. What matters are parameters which you won't find in spec
[...]

Thanks a lot for all that information! I've looked up all those lenses and out of the affordable ones I really like the Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM and the Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM.

I'm thinking of getting both, but that'd leave the entire 18-55mm section out. A 40mm prime looks good to me, but pricey. Getting the 10-18mm Canon and the 18-200mm Sigma I found might be the best choice for now and very good in price, but the 55-250mm is just slightly more expensive ($30), offers a better range and aperature and seems more sturdy overall.

Man, getting lenses is terrible. Too many choices. I guess I'll really have to try to borrow some to get a real feeling for what would work best for me.

lizard™

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Re: Begging for assistance with what camera to get
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2018, 11:49:32 AM »
Decided to go with a 35mm prime lens (Yongnuo F/2.0) as a start, and getting a Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM in near future.

The camera arrived and looks great, absolutely perfect condition and I'm really happy with how it feels. Can't wait for the lens to arrive now!