Author Topic: [HARDWARE] 70D does not start after being unused for a few months  (Read 1013 times)

k1w1

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Sorry in advance if this better belongs in a different thread, but it is somewhat related to ML on the 70D.
Long story short: My 4 year old 70D has had ML enabled and running successfully on it for the last few years.
I decided to sell it (as I have a 7DMk2 now) so I uninstalled ML (using the menu option) in order to sell my camera in original 'as built' condition for the future owner. (Probably unnecessary, but anyway, I did).
The sale process had an unplanned pause of 5 months inserted in it, during which time the 70D was left unused in my camera bag without a battery installed.
When I came to start the sale process again last week, I put a fully charged battery back in and tried to turn the camera on, but absolutely nothing happened!
I still can't turn the camera on no matter what I do. Other batteries don't work, leaving SD cards out makes no difference, using ML bootable card also does nothing, different lens attachments do nix either. There is no sign of LED/LCD life at all, the battery door switch has been tested and works correctly. The only sign of life is that the battery does actually go down if I leave it in the camera for a while, so something may be happening internally, just nothing under control of the user!

The internal on-board rechargeable battery also seems to be ok. Don't know that it actually went flat,  but I understand it is recharged off the main battery? So if it did get low, it would not have been able to recharge before I tried to re-use the camera. It is currently reading 2.88v. It has since been briefly removed and reinstalled in an attempt to 'reset' things (but I don't know if it has really done that though).

My 70D ML-related question is this:-

Is there any chance that the fact that I uninstalled ML and then left the camera basically without any power for some time,  that certain critical battery-backed memory may have lost/corrupted it's contents? Could this have put critical boot flags in the camera in an incorrect state such that the boot loader sequence is no longer being run?

Just wanting to eliminate this as a possibility before I finally resign myself to the fact that my 70D may have became the latest addition to the queue of other 70Ds that have been reported as failing inexplicably to the extent that the only recourse is to replace the motherboard. (eg see http://community.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/70D-wont-turn-on/td-p/163122).

Although I guess unless there is a tool out there that would allow me to  get control of the boot-process again so that corrupted flags/memory locations could be re-instated, I guess I'm probably up for a mother board replacement whatever the cause is (i.e failed hardware or corrupted volatile memory/firmware) ??

FWIW, while I was inside the camera body checking the backup battery, I did notice an unused connector which may be a JTAG port?





EOS 7DII, EOS 70D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Sigma 150-600mm Sport zoom, EF-S 60 f/2.8 macro USM, EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF10-20mm wide angle.

Walter Schulz

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2018, 08:57:44 AM »
I uninstalled ML (using the menu option)

Sorry, unclear. Please clarify which procedure you were using:
- Format card using ML menu with Q button pressed.
  "Format card, remove ML [Q]
    All data will be lost!"
or
- Running ML installation process and waiting for timeout (60s)?
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

k1w1

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2018, 10:20:35 AM »
Hmm, a while since I did it, but the first one sounds most likely as it 'sounds' like what I was wanting to do (ie remove all trace of ML from the camera).

But now reading the way the prompt is worded makes me wonder whether 'removing ML'  from the camera (which would just be restoring the boot flag, as I understand it, since ML code isn't actually left resident on the camera) or just removing ML from the card and reformatting it would have been the result?

How do the outcomes of the two options differ?

[Stop press: Re-reading some forum posts to remind myself, I'm pretty sure I probably did both! Originally did the first method, then found the bootflag hadn't been reset as I could still put another ML-loaded bootable card in the camera and bring ML up. So, I then twigged to the message at the bottom of the screen given in the second option (of pressing Q button and waiting).]
EOS 7DII, EOS 70D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Sigma 150-600mm Sport zoom, EF-S 60 f/2.8 macro USM, EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF10-20mm wide angle.

Walter Schulz

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2018, 10:37:04 AM »
Cam's bootflag still set with first option. Cam will read cards at startup/wakeup and looking if card is bootable. Thus

- slow down startup process and wake-up from sleep
- cam will get stuck with incompatible cards: Some SD-to-CF adapters (doesn't apply to 70D, of course) and older eyefi.
- trying to load ML if a bootable card is inserted. If card is bootable and autoexec.bin missing -> cam gets stuck.

Try this:
Remove battery, remove card. Format card using cardreader. Insert battery, insert card. Close compartment doors. Startup cam.
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

k1w1

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2018, 11:06:39 AM »
Yep. Done that ad infinitum.

I'm not getting any life even with no card inserted.

What do you mean by "- slow down startup process and wake-up from sleep"? Is that a comment, or a suggestion to do? If so, how?

EOS 7DII, EOS 70D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Sigma 150-600mm Sport zoom, EF-S 60 f/2.8 macro USM, EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF10-20mm wide angle.

Walter Schulz

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2018, 11:16:23 AM »
Cam's bootflag still set with first option. Cam will read cards at startup/wakeup and looking if card is bootable.

Therefore cam will act up this way:
- slow down startup process and wake-up from sleep
- cam will get stuck with incompatible cards: Some SD-to-CF adapters (doesn't apply to 70D, of course) and older eyefi. EDIT: And microSD-to-SD adapter without microSD inserted or broken will block cam from starting, too.
- trying to load ML if a bootable card is inserted. If card is bootable and autoexec.bin missing -> cam gets stuck.

If cam's bootflag is set and - for whatever reason - card slot's card detection switch is defect cam will get stuck if *no* card is inserted. Therefore: Retry with formatted card, just to humour me.
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

k1w1

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2018, 11:34:51 AM »
No luck. I'm thinking my bootflag is no longer set in the camera.

Apart from changing the bootflag, when uninstalling ML, is there any possible data/variable residue, or program code, that is in any way related to ML left anywhere in camera memory ?
EOS 7DII, EOS 70D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Sigma 150-600mm Sport zoom, EF-S 60 f/2.8 macro USM, EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF10-20mm wide angle.

Walter Schulz

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2018, 11:38:44 AM »
No luck. I'm thinking my bootflag is no longer set in the camera.

No way to know right now.

Last test: What happens if you startup EOS Utility and connect cam to computer?
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

k1w1

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2018, 01:20:26 PM »
unfortunately, it does nothing, with SD card (non-boot or bootable ML), or without card inserted.
EOS 7DII, EOS 70D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Sigma 150-600mm Sport zoom, EF-S 60 f/2.8 macro USM, EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF10-20mm wide angle.

Walter Schulz

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2018, 03:13:23 PM »
unfortunately, it does nothing, with SD card (non-boot or bootable ML), or without card inserted.

Doesn't look good.
But how do you know your card is bootable? Do you have used MacBoot/EOScard/shell script to make card bootable?
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

k1w1

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2018, 10:09:33 PM »
Yes, used MacBoot v1.11 to set the Make DSLR-bootable option,





Is it possible to try any other options?
EOS 7DII, EOS 70D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Sigma 150-600mm Sport zoom, EF-S 60 f/2.8 macro USM, EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF10-20mm wide angle.

Walter Schulz

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2018, 10:27:50 PM »
Cam not showing any signs of activity (LED blinking, screens flickering, any sound at all): It's up to a1ex for a final verdict but I would say this cam is an ex-cam.
I take it for granted you checked card compartment door switch before.
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

a1ex

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2018, 10:57:05 PM »
Indeed; with a ML card inserted, you should see at least a LED blink. There is a low-level portable display test, but since you couldn't get any LED blinks, I doubt that would be useful.

However, since you were not afraid of opening the camera, you could try this route; if you can get any sort of messages on a serial port, that might help. The technique is unexplored, but I've got the required hardware; just needed a reason to start looking.

JTAG might be helpful too, although I have no experience with it. I might give it a try if you don't have any other option.

ArcziPL

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2018, 11:53:02 PM »

Just wanting to eliminate this as a possibility before I finally resign myself to the fact that my 70D may have became the latest addition to the queue of other 70Ds that have been reported as failing inexplicably to the extent that the only recourse is to replace the motherboard. (eg see http://community.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/70D-wont-turn-on/td-p/163122).

Did you try following the steps from video linked in second reply of this thread on Canon forum? Although strange, many report it helped...
70D.112 | M50.102 | M.202

k1w1

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2018, 03:23:21 AM »
Cam not showing any signs of activity (LED blinking, screens flickering, any sound at all): It's up to a1ex for a final verdict but I would say this cam is an ex-cam.
I take it for granted you checked card compartment door switch before.

Yes. Thanks for your support, Walter. Appreciate it. :-)
EOS 7DII, EOS 70D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Sigma 150-600mm Sport zoom, EF-S 60 f/2.8 macro USM, EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF10-20mm wide angle.

k1w1

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2018, 04:01:57 AM »
Did you try following the steps from video linked in second reply of this thread on Canon forum? Although strange, many report it helped...

Yes, wish it had been that simple, but no, it didn't work for me :-(
EOS 7DII, EOS 70D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Sigma 150-600mm Sport zoom, EF-S 60 f/2.8 macro USM, EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF10-20mm wide angle.

k1w1

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2018, 04:16:40 AM »
...There is a low-level portable display test,...
... you could try this route...

Both these links go to the same place?!

I'm willing to try the JTAG route if for no other reason than the challenge, but also in the hope of possibly understanding what has gone wrong and whether it may be possible to unbrick the camera. I have both RPi and Arduino, and a camera that does not need to be restored in a hurry. So with nothing much to lose other than potentially some resale value the longer I keep it (assuming it is still worth repairing) and some time, and everything to gain from the possibility that I might avoid >$400 unnecessary expense, I'd be prepared to give things a go if someone wanted to provide technical support/guidance!?

In the meantime, I'll see if I can grab a battery grip (hopefully one that is compatible with both 70D and7D Mark 2, and not so costly it cant be sacrificed to the cause) to try the technique/s in the link above.
EOS 7DII, EOS 70D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Sigma 150-600mm Sport zoom, EF-S 60 f/2.8 macro USM, EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF10-20mm wide angle.

k1w1

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Re: 70D does not start after being unused for a few months
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2018, 08:06:28 AM »
Here's the happy ending to the story of my Canon 70D not turning on!
Having researched further and concluded that my camera's main board was cooked (ie nothing to do with ML), and then been given the news (by Canon service) that since my camera was out of warranty (4 yers old), that a replacement main board was going to cost me in excess of $500 to replace, I reluctantly decided to send the camera to Canon to be repaired.

A few days after shipping it off, I happened to be on the Canon site and came across this product notice!

https://www.canon.co.nz/support/support-news/support-news/customer-support-error-70-error-80-eos-70d-dslr-camera

Long story short, my 70D qualified for a free mainboard replacement!

I just today received my now-working camera back from Canon, with an invoice value of  $0.00!  (and a refund of my $70 compulsory inspection fee!)

Wow! I was feeling a bit down on Canon before this, but now I can only say "Thanks so much Canon for restoring my faith in manufacturers who do demonstrate that they value their customers and will (eventually!) stand fully behind their products!"

 :) :) :)
EOS 7DII, EOS 70D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Sigma 150-600mm Sport zoom, EF-S 60 f/2.8 macro USM, EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF10-20mm wide angle.