MLV App - All in one MLV Raw Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]

[masc]

Why not to add Bilinear Cached preview for Real-time or mostly Real-Time ?

Because it wouldn't make it faster... bilinear reaches the same speed like AMaZE cached - at least on my very old Core2Duo, and newer systems should be even faster.

[ilia3101]

Yeah cached bilinear would be same speed as cached amaze. The debayered frames would be saved in memory in both cases, so the algorithm used for debayering stops being a factor.

What kind of frame rates is everyone getting with 1.0?

[bouncyball]

@togg

That could be an issue, I'm already bothered by the fact that every time that you want to play a new clip, especially if it is a long one, you have to wait such a longtime. It doesn't work very well for dailies.

Does not matter how long clip is, decompressing is done per frame and on the fly. It is barely noticeable even in MLVFS.

Edit: You just have to try it yourself and all questions will go away
Edit2: Nobody's willing to use uncompressed MLVs any more b/c of the data rate reduction and higher resolution recording possibility.

[masc]

What kind of frame rates is everyone getting with 1.0?

All clips 1856x1044 from 5D2:

iMac 2011 i5:
Uncompressed MLV 20fps, Compressed MLV 12fps

MacBookPro 2010 Core2Duo:
Uncompressed MLV 8fps, Compressed MLV 6fps

[bouncyball]

Right...

Clip 1920x1080 compressed - 19fps
Same clip uncompressed - 28fps

[bouncyball]

It is noticeable when playing back trying to achieve max possible speed but maters less during exporting.

[togg]

Because it wouldn't make it faster... bilinear reaches the same speed like AMaZE cached - at least on my very old Core2Duo, and newer systems should be even faster.

How did MlRawViewer achieved real time playback? But even there that were pretty huge loading times, I don't even know why do we have loading times honestly, is it because of mlv structure?

@togg
Does not matter how long clip is, decompressing is done per frame and on the fly. It is barely noticeable even in MLVFS.

Edit: You just have to try it yourself and all questions will go away
Edit2: Nobody's willing to use uncompressed MLVs any more b/c of the data rate reduction and higher resolution recording possibility.

waaaait, this is not my experience at all. I have loading times at the beginning of each mlv.

regarding uncompressed/compressed I guess I'm catchin up late because of the forum/development organization. Right now is very very hard to find relevant info and recapitulative topics. I mean even the fragmentation of nightly/experimental isn't helping.

[flostro]

MlRawViewer has OpenGL acceleration, I have realtime playback on an 10 year old laptop.
The old .raw format had no loading time at all, since .mlv it does some indexing of the file first, that takes a little time.

[togg]

The old .raw format had no loading time at all, since .mlv it does some indexing of the file first, that takes a little time.

Any chance of bypassing this? It is the worst.

[flostro]

I don't know a way to bypass it or if its possible, But .raw didn't have audio or metadata so no indexing was needed.
And now I use mlv_app because it supports compressed raw and is actively beeing developed but i dont get realtime playback anymore

[masc]

MlRawViewer uses OpenCL acceleration. That makes it fast, but on old computers with simple graphics it does not work at all.
Bypass the indexing starting from second load: enable Mapp-Files from File menu.

[theBilalFakhouri]

For Real-time playback solution you can use Fast CinemaDNG Processor it support MLV files directly in any bit-depth lossless or not and you can export it to different formats as well.

[togg]

I don't know a way to bypass it or if its possible, But .raw didn't have audio or metadata so no indexing was needed.
And now I use mlv_app because it supports compressed raw and is actively beeing developed but i dont get realtime playback anymore

Indexing is needed in order to get metadata? Maybe it would be possible to have video playing without audio while the audio loads.

[flostro]

Don't know about mlv_app, MlRawViewer generates .mrx files when you first open a .mlv file

"Commit  23d3c2f  Index Expo/Wbal/Lens metadata for every MLV frame"
"Commit  65d5e57  Persist MLV index data MLV's should now only need to be indexed one time. The index is saved into the MRX file, and reloaded/used next time the set is opened. "

[masc]

Again: MLV App generates MAPP files for indexing, if you enable it from File menu. Enabled, there is nearly no latency loading a clip after the first time.

[bouncyball]

Yes MAPP file does what MRX does for mlrawviewer. There are differences though.

Similarities:
Both contain Video frame index (absolute offsets to all video frames start in MLV)

Differences:
MAPP also includes audio frame index and all needed block header copies. Hence there is no need to open and scan MLV file second time at all.
Audio index simplifies audio data access when this data is to be loaded. WAV file is not saved separately.
All edits from gui saved to recipes and sessions.

MRX I believe does not include audio frame index because the WAV file is saved separately.
MRX includes all WB and color correction changes.

[bouncyball]

So when MAPP is active and MLV does not contain audio, the second loading is lightning fast.

If audio present, loading is slower though. Because it loaded separately and waveform is generated to be shown at the bottom of the window (separate WAV saving would help a bit I think).

The delays are very noticeable mostly on spinning drives and far less on SSDs.

[bouncyball]

BTW try MLV loading in fastcinemadng. It takes even longer than in mlv app. Well... the playback is superb though

[megapolis]

Fast CinemaDNG takes it longer because we also need to allocate GPU memory and this is not fast procedure.

By the way, why wouldn't you add that index to MLV format? Everything is in your hands - just add to MLV specification such a feature at the end of file or you could allocate some space at the header to store offsets for each frame.

[Enrico]

The only difference in the workflow is clicking the button dual iso. As far as I know there is no tutorial.

I tried but it continues to flicker what am I supposed to do in Davinci?

[masc]

I tried but it continues to flicker what am I supposed to do in Davinci?

Normally nothing flickers. So you should upload your clip (or at least a part of it), and we could analyse what happens.

[andy kh]

forget fast cdng as it is not for everyone. we need nvidia 6*** series to use fast cdng. it is totally useless for others who dont have nvidia 6 series

[megapolis]

forget fast cdng as it is not for everyone. we need nvidia 6*** series to use fast cdng. it is totally useless for others who dont have nvidia 6 series

Not everyone needs smooth video output. Realtime cdng processing and denoising are not right things either. That's true.

[Enrico]

Normally nothing flickers. So you should upload your clip (or at least a part of it), and we could analyse what happens.

Here I put a short clip https://mega.nz/#!4j5VlDDQ

[ilia3101]

@bouncyball Maybe MAPP should be done automatically? Like in MLRawViewer. As you've put so much work in to it. I guess the files could be annoying, but the quickness I personally like. Depends what everyone thinks about having loads of files like it was with MLRawViewer. And what about invisible mapp files? I know masc probably doesn't like that idea

By the way, why wouldn't you add that index to MLV format? Everything is in your hands - just add to MLV specification such a feature at the end of file or you could allocate some space at the header to store offsets for each frame.

Interesting idea. We could add an "MAPP" block couldn't we @bouncyball? Maybe put it straight after the first MLVI block. I am a little uncomfortable about modifying files though.

forget fast cdng as it is not for everyone. we need nvidia 6*** series to use fast cdng. it is totally useless for others who dont have nvidia 6 series

MLV App is for the many not the few. I am happy that people with old hardware find it useful. What's the oldest thing it could run on I wonder...