Author Topic: I am new to ML. Questions before installing  (Read 3285 times)

heyjoe

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« on: November 04, 2016, 01:01:49 PM »
Hi,

I am interested in installing ML on my 5D3 mainly because I want to see the real raw histograms on the camera display. As far as I understand from what I read on the site, the ML software stays on the card itself and is not flashed inside camera's built-in memory. I also read that it is possible to format the card without removing ML.

As I am completely new to ML I have some questions:
  • What would happen if the card is removed from the camera? Will it be possible to use another card (without ML on it) with the standard Canon firmware?
  • What if the card with ML gets damaged at certain point in time? (they don't last forever) Will the camera be able to boot? Or is there any danger of making the camera bricked because of a damaged card? If in such situation the camera fails to boot - will it be enough to simply remove the card, i.e. will that boot the original firmware?
  • 5D3 has 2 card slots - SD and CF. I have one CF card and several SD. Should ML be installed on each card? Or will installing it on one card make it possible to write images to any of the cards? Example: If I install ML on the CF card, will I be able to I simply put the next formatted SD card (without ML on it) when the previous one gets filled? Is there any particular setting specifying which card to boot from?

I hope you can clarify this.
Thank you!

heyjoe

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2016, 10:12:23 PM »
Nobody knows? Really?   ::)

Levas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
  • 6d - Nightly build user
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2016, 12:49:39 AM »
I have a canon 6d and use Magic Lantern on it for more then 3 years, never bricked my camera ;D
Worst things I saw happen is that it seems to brick, then I removed the  battery, then replace the battery and everything is fine 8)


ML is on the card, if a card without ML is used, the camera starts up normal(although a little bit slower), because it's enabled for booting software from a memory card.

I have a 6d, so no dual slots, but as far as I know, ML always runs from the SD card in the 5d3.

As a 3 years user, and if you're going only for the raw histogram, I should say, what are you waiting for!

DeafEyeJedi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3081
  • 5D3 / M1 / 7D / 70D / SL1
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2016, 01:26:27 AM »
@heyjoe-- simply run ML off SD cards (as many as you like) and can copy off ML settings folder to paste them on all SD's to make it easier by keeping all under the same settings fluidly and always record stuff directly onto CF cards.

1066x seems to be the sweet spot for 5D3. Try KomputerBay 128GB or 256GB on Amazon if you like.
5D3.113 • 5D3.123 • EOSM.203 • 7D.203 • 70D.112 • 100D.101

heyjoe

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2016, 06:09:46 PM »
@Levas

Thanks for the info. What about question 2?

@DeafEyeJedi

Thanks for the recommendation. However I am not planning to buy any new cards. Currently I have 1xCF 64GB, 1xSD 32GB and 2xSD 256GB. For the moment that is more than enough for me.

So considering that - how would you answer question 3?

hyalinejim

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2016, 07:43:17 PM »
If you want to record raw video, put ML on SD card and buy fast CF cards to write to.

If you don't need raw video it doesn't matter which card you put ML on.
If I install ML on the CF card, will I be able to I simply put the next formatted SD card (without ML on it) when the previous one gets filled?



Yes

DeafEyeJedi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3081
  • 5D3 / M1 / 7D / 70D / SL1
I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2016, 06:38:05 AM »
...So considering that - how would you answer question 3?

Sorry missed that. Re: 6D it should be fine to run ML on the SD cards -- just be sure to set them to exFAT, right?
 
But why would you want to run a card without ML on it? What good does it do without it? It's completely useless.

If you are feeling vanilla canon then simply do the update firmware/wait 60 seconds/restart cam protocol otherwise.
5D3.113 • 5D3.123 • EOSM.203 • 7D.203 • 70D.112 • 100D.101

heyjoe

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2016, 01:41:53 PM »
Quote from: DeafEyeJedi
just be sure to set them to exFAT, right?

How do I make sure they are set to exFAT? So far I have always formatted my cards in the camera. Is there any special I need to do in terms of formatting in order to use ML?

Quote from: DeafEyeJedi
But why would you want to run a card without ML on it? What good does it do without it? It's completely useless.

Why is a card without ML useless? It is still a storage. If the other card (CF) has ML on it - the camera would still be able to record to the SD card although the SD card has no ML on it, right?

Quote from: DeafEyeJedi
If you are feeling vanilla canon then simply do the update firmware/wait 60 seconds/restart cam protocol otherwise.

Sorry, I don't understand this. Could you explain?

DeafEyeJedi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3081
  • 5D3 / M1 / 7D / 70D / SL1
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2016, 11:06:22 PM »
How do I make sure they are set to exFAT? So far I have always formatted my cards in the camera. Is there any special I need to do in terms of formatting in order to use ML?

exFAT just makes things run smoother. Bypasses the 4GB limit for continuous recording. Can be done in OS X via Disk Utility. Note any CF/SD cards higher than 128GB will retain it's exFAT after format inside camera. This can be useful.

Why is a card without ML useless? It is still a storage. If the other card (CF) has ML on it - the camera would still be able to record to the SD card although the SD card has no ML on it, right?

Nope. Because then it won't be able to run (since the camera will be looking for the bootflag) so if you want to be able to run clean-vanilla Canon (with no ML whatsoever) then please do the protocol I mentioned above.

Beside the fact that you are using a 5D3 -- why put yourself in a position to be bottlenecked by the SD slot's limited writing speeds in camera comparing to the CF's slot hence the reason why I recommended to get more CF cards to make your workflow easier otherwise.

Sorry, I don't understand this. Could you explain?

If you want to run a clean 5D3 (vanilla canon) without ML involved then please do the follow:

Run firmware update (in canon menu) and let it do its thing.

Then once it starts counting down from 60 seconds -- please stand by and wait until it gets to 0 seconds.

Camera should restart on its own then you'll have yourself ML free camera. Hope this helps.

But if you don't mind me asking why would you NOT want to use ML after all, just curious?
5D3.113 • 5D3.123 • EOSM.203 • 7D.203 • 70D.112 • 100D.101

heyjoe

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2016, 12:56:43 AM »
exFAT just makes things run smoother. Bypasses the 4GB limit for continuous recording. Can be done in OS X via Disk Utility. Note any CF/SD cards higher than 128GB will retain it's exFAT after format inside camera. This can be useful.
Then I don't think I have ever used anything else than exFAT because my smallest card is 32GB. BTW I use mainly Linux and (unfortunately) sometimes Windows :)

Quote
Nope. Because then it won't be able to run (since the camera will be looking for the bootflag) so if you want to be able to run clean-vanilla Canon (with no ML whatsoever) then please do the protocol I mentioned above.

It seems I didn't make myself clear. The idea is:

- CF card with ML
- SD card without ML
(both cards in camera)

Why shouldn't the camera be able too boot with this configuration? After all ML is on the CF, so what is the problem?

Quote
Beside the fact that you are using a 5D3 -- why put yourself in a position to be bottlenecked by the SD slot's limited writing speeds in camera comparing to the CF's slot hence the reason why I recommended to get more CF cards to make your workflow easier otherwise.

Because I already have these cards and I paid for them. Plus I don't shoot video for the moment so I am not really in a hurry for top speed :) When I need video - that may change of course.

Quote
If you want to run a clean 5D3 (vanilla canon) without ML involved then please do the follow:

Run firmware update (in canon menu) and let it do its thing.

Then once it starts counting down from 60 seconds -- please stand by and wait until it gets to 0 seconds.

Camera should restart on its own then you'll have yourself ML free camera. Hope this helps.

Hm. Are you saying that the only way to get rid of ML and boot original firmware (which you call vanilla) is to re-flash the firmware of the body? Why is that necessary considering that the only thing which changes in the body is the boot flag. Can't one simply disable the boot flag and that's it?

If what you say is so, that would mean that after enabling the boot flag the camera will never be able to boot without a card with ML. Which also means that one may not be able to flash the firmware if it is not on a card with ML. And this brings back the unanswered question 2 :) I hope you can explain as I am getting a little confused.

Quote
But if you don't mind me asking why would you NOT want to use ML after all, just curious?

I am willing TO use ML, just learning at the moment in order not to mess up anything :)

Levas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
  • 6d - Nightly build user
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2016, 01:18:44 PM »
You can 'install'  magic lantern.
In order to make use of magic lantern, the ML files must be on the memory card.

If you switch the camera on without a memory card, it boots up just normal (just a little slower).
If a card without ML is used, the camera will still boot up normal, it just boots a little slower, that's all.
If a card is used with a wrong magic lantern version(for example version for another camera or firmware) it will tell you with text on your camera display and the camera won't boot further.
So in this case you have to delete the wrong ML files before you can use this specific memory card.

I don't know what will happen if a card is placed with the right magic lantern files, but the card got corrupted. But that sounds very unlikely to happen. And if it happens, it probably just won't boot. Remove battery, replace battery and try another card.

That said, I'm only familiair with magic lantern on the 6d

heyjoe

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2016, 10:23:56 AM »
Thanks for explaining Levas. I don't know why you say it is unlikely the cart to get corrupted. It has happened to many people.

BTW what has the battery to do with the whole thing? I.e. - why should I replace it and by replacing - do you mean I need a new battery or simply remove it from the body and put it back in?


Forum related question:

I am trying to get email notifications for this thread. In profile settings I read "To receive notifications from a topic, click the "notify" button while viewing it." but there is no such button?

Levas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
  • 6d - Nightly build user
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2016, 11:10:29 AM »
By replacing the battery I mean, remove it from the body and put it back in.

This is sometimes needed if the on/off switch from the camera won't power down your camera...yes as weird as it may sound, when the power switch is turned to 'off' your camera can still be alive and kicking and consume power from the battery  ;D
It's sort of the same if your desktop computer 'freezes' and you can't shut it down normally in software, you have to force the power supply to 'off' to make it work again.



heyjoe

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: I am new to ML. Questions before installing
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2016, 09:56:34 PM »
Thanks for the explanations Levas. I understand what you are saying.

As soon as I have some time I will give ML a try.